Upgradable Consoles are Just PCs for Peasants

JUMBO PALACE

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Rebel_Raven said:
Right, coz I want what ever upgrade I get for my console to be obsolete in months, cost as much as a console, and so many other flaws, and I've got to worry if my console can play the latest games at full power or not. No thanks.
Totally. Instead, you can buy a system that's years into obsolescence upon release, doesn't allow mods or personalization, has a fee for multiplayer, and you have to be stuck with for however long the manufacturer decides to keep the current gen going as technology pushes further and further forward. Don't worry though, you'll never have to consider whether or not you can run the game at max settings. You get one option, low-medium at whatever resolution and fps the developer has decided for you.

That is the point of a PC. You don't have to be held hostage by whatever decisions Microsoft or Sony think is best for you. No one asked for these updated consoles, it just screws over customers who have already bought one.

And I admit, I'm playing devil's advocate a little. I'm sure your statement above was tongue in cheek (I hope. Consoles are a great option for a lot of people who can't afford the (marginally) higher cost of a PC or don't have the interest or desire to make that their primary platform. I understand that, but it does make me a little smug when I see console manufacturers basically turning their products into mini-PCs. You could just skip the BS and buy a PC and be done with it at this point.

Also, I would love to finally see what this 4k PS4 is all about. Unless they got the Flash to run into the future and bring them back GPUs that can support 4k resolution reliably, that are affordable, there's no way they mean games at 4k unless these consoles are coming with an extreme price premium. Maybe video playback only?

Edit: There seems to be this opinion that to be able to compare your hardware to the game requirements is this complicated and technical art in which you need to simultaneously do calculus and read the tea leaves for signs from the PC gods. If you can remember what Graphics card, processor, and how much RAM you have, you're essentially done. Plus, system requirements are usually VAST. Minimum is typically a card from years and years ago and recommended might be from a few years ago to the most recent offerings. PC gaming has become so accessible and easy. If you build a PC with a new-ish GPU and processor you won't have to check system requirements. You PC will play whatever it is you want to play. The only reason to get anal and uppity about it is if you need to be that guy with top end hardware running 3 1440p monitors at 100+ fps. Actually, even then you won't have to worry about it because you know your hardware is top of the line. SO unless you build a PC and leave the GPU in there for 10 years, you're good.
 

RaikuFA

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There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.
 

Pickles

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RaikuFA said:
There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.
$200 seems pretty steep. Although we could be on completely different sides of the world for all I know (Im in AUS).
My family still seems overly impressed in my ability to google computer problems.
 

Saelune

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Needs a better title for the article, since as it stands, it sounds ike this article isn't actually pro-console players.

This whole thing shows a problem I have noticed this current gen...consoles want to suck. I -was- one of the staunchest console defenders, but this gen has forgone virtually every advantage consoles had over PC. Pop in and play? Gone. A focus on gaming? Gone. Now they want to take away one of the last vestiges of consoles?

I really hope my mobile apocalypse I fear Nintendo is going is wrong, cause Nintendo is the only company making game consoles that still are consoles. My Wii U games still pop in and play, and its focused on gaming. Hell, most non-gaming features on Wii U have overtime been weeded out.

I have become more and more a PC gamer now. Most PC games use controllers now if I want them, and most games seem to download faster than console. Really all that is left on console is easier multiplayer, but who is to say that wont go out the window at some point too as consoles try to become more garbage.
 

RaikuFA

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gianttalkingpickle said:
RaikuFA said:
There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.
$200 seems pretty steep. Although we could be on completely different sides of the world for all I know (Im in AUS).
My family still seems overly impressed in my ability to google computer problems.
US. And $200 is steep. Most people tell me he's just trying to con me cause I'm not computer literate.
 

Neonsilver

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RaikuFA said:
There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.
In my personal case it's rather simple and I'm sure most if not everyone who knows at least a litte about pcs could tell you something similar. It is incredibly annoying to help others with their pcs. When you know a little about pcs, people will come to you and ask you to fix your pc. While that isn't that bad, in many cases the problems start with the user not reading simple error messages or you get something like a very old pc with the request to make it faster. Another thing I experienced a few times is that I fixed a pc, gave the owner some simple instructions to prevent the problems. Months later I get the pc again with the same problem and the owner ignored the instructions.
For example I had to fix my cousins pc several times when it was riddled with malware and viruses to the point that the pc wouldn't even start anymore. I told him every time to install an antivirus software, keep it updated and scan the pc on occasion, sometimes I installed free software that works well enough. However every time he asked me for help the software was either missing or not updated in months. After the last time I told him, that I wouldn't do it for free again if the pc is missing an updated antivirus software.

That is my personal reason why I'm careful about offering my help for free, outside of close friends.

This cracked article probably explains it better than I do.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-guy-whos-fixing-your-computer-hates-you/
 

orangeapples

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RaikuFA said:
There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.
I just took a computer to a repair shop and they diagnosed it for free >_>

Mobo problem so they can't fix it but didn't charge...
 

deadish

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VoidWanderer said:
And is referring to people who don't want to have to have their PC specs memorized when buying games, to figure out IF their PC can run it, as peasants, really necessary?
When the typical person read on the box

"NVIDIA GTX 660 2GB / AMD HD 7870 2GB or better"

... they put it right back on the shelf and move on.

What does that even mean? What is better than those? What is worse that those?

The fact that Nvidia and AMD pretty much number their parts almost randomly doesn't help, e.g. Is a R9 270 better than 7870?

RaikuFA said:
There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.
I tried asking about computer parts and shit on a computer forum once. No one was willing to explain anything. They just keep asking me for my price range ...

I'm not exactly computer illiterate, it's just that I haven't kept up with hardware news due to my life going down the drain the last decade or so.

Wanted to catch up ... got treated like a child that can't possibly understand "adult things" ... Great community.

KaraFang said:
Rebel_Raven said:
Right, coz I want what ever upgrade I get for my console to be obsolete in months, cost as much as a console, and so many other flaws, and I've got to worry if my console can play the latest games at full power or not. No thanks.

I'll leave that to the
<youtube=aDMsGl_XxTk>

Anywho, the article makes sense.
Problem is, that I don't think you're going to have long until, as a console owner, the "optional" upgrade very quicky becomes a required upgrade...

Oh, I'm sure that initially sony's "games will be made for PS4 1st with Neo enhancements 2nd" will hold true. Same for when they do and nail down the Xbox1 upgrade as well.

And theennnn.... the game developers will be "yeah, no, this game WILL need a Neo only, cause we can't DO this game with the power the PS4 provides." and Sony will just go "well, we tried purchasers and loyal fans.... now go buy a neo."

Unless they go the full PC route of giving console owners a full 100% employed settings screen to downgrade resolution etc... but then, buy a PC? Cause... yeah...
It probably won't end up like the PC market. It will more likely become like the iPhone market.

Each game will be quite clear about the Playstation they support.

Unlike PC you don't have to know any of the tech jargon. Playstations like iPhones will be number according to their "power level" where bigger is better.
 

Callate

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Ir's going to be weird, whatever happens. Putting aside the customer side for a moment: what happens when the consoles start dividing their own markets into haves and have-nots? From a business standpoint, the big advantage of releasing software to consoles was the vast number of potential customers- many of whom were pretty comfortable with not having to do much more than unpack the box, charge the controllers, and find an unoccupied HDMI port on their televisions. (No offense intended- there's nothing wrong with that!)

Put one way, the consoles risk facing a version of the problem that undermined the Wii-U: millions of consumers saying "I already have 'X'; why exactly do I need 'X+1'?" And when it turns out that the software does, indeed, need 'X+1'- not just to load the spiffier textures or avoid having to go to a loading screen a few extra times, but to run at all- it seems likely that for many, the result will be confusion, and then anger. I can't claim to speak for everyone, of course, but personally I get irritated when someone who is providing me goods or services that are strictly optional demands that I repeatedly demonstrate my loyalty, especially when that loyalty has to be demonstrated in the form of cash.

Ultimately, this seems like a somewhat shady work-around for a problem that is not technical so much as psychological and economic: Sony and Microsoft couldn't bring consoles to market that were marked improvements over the last generation at the sub-$500 mark that customers expected.

...So, they didn't. Instead, we get Uncharted 4 running at 30fps, and The Order: 1886 shaving the edges off of its own screen, and so on.

And now it seems likely that at least one of them is going to run with the idea that, say, a $700 purchase is an unsurpassable hurdle, but a $500 purchase followed by a $200 purchase somehow is not.

They might even be right; people are weird that way. But it could still blow up in their faces.
 

orangeapples

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Why isn't anyone talking about the Sega CD 32X debacle? Console add-ons never take off because that is too much work for consoles. You split up the user base to take advantage of the latest tech and instead of having access to a potential 100% of the console you end up with just 10-15%.

Sega 32x
Sega CD
PS2 modem (they later released a PS2 with a modem built in but no hard drive option)
Xbox 360 Kinect (they attempted to remedy this with XB1)
Any Nintendo add-on. They have killed every single one in a matter of months after release in Japan and they never left the island.

To tell console users that you need add-ons to keep your console relevant, they don't bite. The only way for them to accept it is to release a new model with it built in. But then consumers know it isn't necessary.

While I can see these new editions of the current consoles being optimized for VR, I don't see them releasing games "Only on PS4 Neo" The best case scenario I can forsee is a "Better on PS4Neo/Xbox1.5"
 

TotalerKrieger

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MythicMatt said:
Higgs303 said:
external GPU
Whoa, wait. Those are actual things? How? Why?
Yea, nothing is on the market yet, but every major laptop manufacturer seems to have recently presented an external GPU enclosure (really just a box with a PCIe lane and powers supply). Laptop users will be able to buy any desktop graphics card for the enclosure and plug it into their laptop via the Thunderbird port. If this takes off and becomes popular, consoles may need to become upgradable in order to compete.



 

orangeapples

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deadish said:
VoidWanderer said:
And is referring to people who don't want to have to have their PC specs memorized when buying games, to figure out IF their PC can run it, as peasants, really necessary?
When the typical person read on the box

"NVIDIA GTX 660 2GB / AMD HD 7870 2GB or better"

... they put it right back on the shelf and move on.

What does that even mean? What is better than those? What is worse that those?

The fact that Nvidia and AMD pretty much number their parts almost randomly doesn't help, e.g. Is a R9 270 better than 7870?
well everyone knows that the letter-number combo always means something is elite. Cars do it, planes do it, I think shoes do it so obviously the R9.

What will really confuse people is finding out that the GTX 680 is stronger than the GTX 750.

deadish said:
RaikuFA said:
There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.
I tried asking about computer parts and shit on a computer forum once. No one was willing to explain anything. They just keep asking me for my price range ...

I'm not exactly computer illiterate, it's just that I haven't kept up with hardware news due to my life going down the drain the last decade or so.

Wanted to catch up ... got treated like a child that can't possibly understand "adult things" ... Great community.
What they tend to do is get the price range and then explain why it is the best option for that price range. Also it is safer to assume the person asking knows nothing since the majority of people asking questions don't know. Doing research isn't hard considering the number of youtubers that regularly release videos regarding the latest in tech. Despite what people think, they don't actually sit on the internet all day long waiting for the chance to showcase their computer knowledge. It isn't that they think you won't understand, it is just easier that way for them.
 

weirdee

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The main issue is that there's a loop that never ends well: customers don't want to get the upgrade because the software makers don't support it, and the software makers don't support it because the customers don't want to get the upgrade. If even the merest suggestion that it's unnecessary/optional can sink the Wii U, which isn't actually a peripheral, much less every actual peripheral made for a console machine, then there's no market for it; at least, until somebody actually succeeds in a sustainable model. It would most likely entail expensive amounts of industry strongarming.
 

RaikuFA

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Neonsilver said:
RaikuFA said:
There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.
In my personal case it's rather simple and I'm sure most if not everyone who knows at least a litte about pcs could tell you something similar. It is incredibly annoying to help others with their pcs. When you know a little about pcs, people will come to you and ask you to fix your pc. While that isn't that bad, in many cases the problems start with the user not reading simple error messages or you get something like a very old pc with the request to make it faster. Another thing I experienced a few times is that I fixed a pc, gave the owner some simple instructions to prevent the problems. Months later I get the pc again with the same problem and the owner ignored the instructions.
For example I had to fix my cousins pc several times when it was riddled with malware and viruses to the point that the pc wouldn't even start anymore. I told him every time to install an antivirus software, keep it updated and scan the pc on occasion, sometimes I installed free software that works well enough. However every time he asked me for help the software was either missing or not updated in months. After the last time I told him, that I wouldn't do it for free again if the pc is missing an updated antivirus software.

That is my personal reason why I'm careful about offering my help for free, outside of close friends.

This cracked article probably explains it better than I do.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-guy-whos-fixing-your-computer-hates-you/
Considering the guy I went to had a business that was fixing PC's, I think it's safe to say he wasn't doing it for free. But $200 for just a diagnostic is outrageous.
 

Mikeybb

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tippy2k2 said:
I'll say the exact same thing you did except less professionally

The second Upgradable Consoles become the norm is the second I...*Sigh.....[small]join the PC crowd[/small]

I feel dirty just saying that but why in the hell would I want all of the negatives that PCs have but none of the positives?
It's the good kind of dirty feeling though.
Join uuuussss.

This said, I expect upgradable consoles will be a more user friendly affair.

Picture this.
A more compartmentalized internal construction allowing for parts to be slotted in and out as easily as a hard drive on a 360, albeit within a larger cover.
Imagine lifting your outer cover and seeing three sealed boxes latched on to a larger box.
One for hard drive, one for cpu and ram then one for graphics.
A single port beneath them that they slot firmly in to which connects the specified part to the motherboard and in turn provides power.
They could even be colour coordinated AND use shaped ports to ensure one doesn't try to plug a hard drive into a graphics card slot, etc.
Power supply remains external.
Sound isn't something you'd really need to upgrade in any way other than software.
Hell, if they made self contained dvd/blu ray drives those could be replaced by home users instead of having to find a techie or send it back to the manufacturer.
Upgrading, as infrequently as it would happen, would be a process as difficult as that which was comparable to changing a nintendo cartridge.

I remember when microsoft first released the xbox there was talk like this of upgradable machines.
The Hard drive back on the 360 was one of the things which evolved out of that thought process and remember how easy it was to deal with that.

As to graphical options, it would be something that the programmers had to consider but not the user.
All that would happen is the console would check its connected components and set itself to the right options for said machine.
Given that the programmers would have a very limited range of components to consider when setting their options, while it would add work to the process it wouldn't be anywhere near as complex as the variables they have to consider for the pc market.

That isn't to say I wouldn't like to see more people enjoying the glory of PC gaming, just that I think if any serious consideration is given to upgradable consoles by the manufacturers of the moment, primary concern will be ease of implementation by end users.
 

gorfias

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Madmatty said:
Upgrades, updates, install times, all these things are slowly defeating the purpose of consoles am I right?
You have a point.

But Since the 4 Meg Expansion pack in the N64, we've known some upgrades on a console can be fun additions at a reasonable price.

What irks me now is that, rather than a pack I add to my XB1, I'd have to buy a whole other one. That is a fail.
 

CaitSeith

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MythicMatt said:
Upgradable consoles... Are we talking "Mega Drive/Genesis" style, "Nintendo 64/Gamecube" style or "Actual PC" style.
Because only one of those is decent as a concept, and even then not really comparable to what it's imitating. Unless parts become interchangable between consoles and PCs. By which point, you need to decide which is more worth the money [which will usually be the PC, because there's always something to replace or upgrade].

Higgs303 said:
external GPU
Whoa, wait. Those are actual things? How? Why?
Laptops. They require more work to upgrade than desktop PCs (lots of people can build PCs on their own; but very few can with laptops), so the easiest solution is external upgrades and adapters.
 

Gatlank

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RaikuFA said:
There's just one huge issue: PC gatekeeping. It seems PC users LOVE to look down on anyone who wants to get into PC gaming but isn't tech savvy.

Case in point: my computer has been broken for a year and a half. Why can't I get it fixed? Cause I don't know what's wrong and the only guy who'll look at it wants $200 just to see what's wrong.
Where have you been going?
Because where i use to lurk/discuss that kind of behaviour is frowned upon and if you present your doubts or problems clearly you will find someone willing to lend a hand.

Considering the guy I went to had a business that was fixing PC's, I think it's safe to say he wasn't doing it for free. But $200 for just a diagnostic is outrageous.
He's ripping you off, plain and simple.
 

Kyogissun

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Upgradeable consoles runs entirely counter intuitive to the lone reason I have fallen back in love with consoles...

I
Just
Want
To
Play
Video
Games