Upgrade Systems: The Good, Bad, and Ugly

[Adam Jensen]

Playing the Tomb Raider reboot again, the game annoyed me in the fact that I have to unlock the part of Lara's brain that gives her the idea that smacking people in the face with a climbing axe might be a good way to deal with enemies. I mean, she is supposed to be a super smart archeologist and it doesn't occur to her to hit people with her axe as a first thought?

This shit right here. But I'm not talking about Tomb Raider specifically. There's a ton of games that are so unimaginative and so uninspired, they don't know how to implement leveling and upgrade systems, but they think that their game must have those systems because that's what sells, so they lock away BASIC MOVES and BASIC FUNCTIONS behind an upgrade. The biggest offender is Ubisoft with Far Cry. Holy motherfuckin' Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, the upgrade system in Far Cry 3 and 4 is shit.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Yeah, but that is kind of where different people appreciate different things in a game. I love Dark Souls and played through each game multiple times but I never found the appeal to replay the game in build variety. I tried every weapon and any kind of magic but it somehow never feels as fun as simple sword & shield. Just the kind of kinetic energy of the game feels best suited in this most basic set-up and any deviation only dilutes the optimal fun factor.

I don't really get the build "variety" of Souls either. It doesn't really matter if you use like a katana or hammer really; one is faster and gets more hits in doing less damage per hit vs slower with less hits but more damage per hit (and both probably net the same DPS). In Souls, you basically just dodge (or block) and then attack until out of stamina regardless what weapon you're using. Bloodborne did make bigger weapons feel different where you can smash an enemy to the ground with charged hit but then the enemy has invincibility frames getting up (and your character doesn't) and basically defeats the mechanical purpose but it looks good at least. And other playstyles are really underwhelming (in feel) like magic or the bow and arrow, there's other games that do those so much better.

 

[stroopwafel]

I don't really get the build "variety" of Souls either. It doesn't really matter if you use like a katana or hammer really; one is faster and gets more hits in doing less damage per hit vs slower with less hits but more damage per hit (and both probably net the same DPS). In Souls, you basically just dodge (or block) and then attack until out of stamina regardless what weapon you're using. Bloodborne did make bigger weapons feel different where you can smash an enemy to the ground with charged hit but then the enemy has invincibility frames getting up (and your character doesn't) and basically defeats the mechanical purpose but it looks good at least. And other playstyles are really underwhelming (in feel) like magic or the bow and arrow, there's other games that do those so much better.

Yep, you also see it in the enemy behavior. It is designed/programmed for a melee weapon that provide no real mechanical difference from one another instead of being poked at from a distance by arrows or magic or whatever. Infact the A.I. reacts so stupid to this that it doesn't even seem accounted for.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Yeah, but that is kind of where different people appreciate different things in a game. I love Dark Souls and played through each game multiple times but I never found the appeal to replay the game in build variety. I tried every weapon and any kind of magic but it somehow never feels as fun as simple sword & shield. Just the kind of kinetic energy of the game feels best suited in this most basic set-up and any deviation only dilutes the optimal fun factor. The enemies and environments as well don't change so if this is really good then this is the reason why I want to replay the game. I don't care about the multiplayer aspect either. For me replay value lies solely in re-experiencing that amazing atmosphere and world design that only From Sofware can deliver. So Sekiro's laser focus on one specific playstyle actually made the game a lot better for me because you had the best of both worlds; the optimal fun factor and the amazing world design. I still like the RPG elements of Dark Souls but more like a difficulty slider to make the game easier or harder.

Strangely enough a game like Nioh with it's excessive loot grind do provide vastly different experiences per weapon and not one feels like the excessively play-tested 'default' weapon but that is because of much deeper mechanical complexities than Souls or Bloodborne(not Sekiro). It's why an RPG could never provide a 'build' like Sekiro because the game simply can't provide for such mechanical complexity per playstyle. There is always the default one where the game shines brightest. Team Ninja comes closest but they have literal decades of experience making dedicated character action games. From Demon's Souls upto Dark Souls 3 the Souls games were still running on the same template since 2009 so Sekiro definitely felt like a giant leap providing the kind of depth and mechanical complexity of a Team Ninja game but with From Software style world-building. I think that is also reason why any news about Elden Ring is taking so long because it is hard to backpedal from Sekiro's laser focused mechanical complexity to the more 'basic' set-up of stat based combat. Delivering that same depth as Sekiro but with more variety must be an impossible task. They probably want to improve on the Souls combat with the innovations they made in Sekiro while adjusting for different playstyles to not disappoint fans but this must be a monumental task.

I only care for skill trees if they improve the game in ways I care about. And Sekiro definitely did that. You had the shinobi prosthetic which was awesome in itself but being able to add skills like a forward slash made it even better. Simple improvements sure but easy to execute and improved the gameplay in ways that made it even more fun. Skills were imaginative and cool instead of the usual boring upgrades or superfluous fluff.

What bothers me about Sekiro though for example (and there are certainly others like it) is you spend a lot of time and effort to go through this process of essentially unlocking all these skills, only to be locked out of 99% of them because...”balance”? It makes no sense and seems kinda pointless to have to constantly be switching between things you’ve already “learned“. It may have more focus and precision required, but it’s discouraging and off-putting to have to constantly decide what you want to use. The enemy encounters and abilities should be balanced better vs having the player pigeonholed if the concern is breaking the game.

It’s one thing I generally prefer about SoulsBorne combat is that they give you all your moves right off the bat, and your only requirement is finding a weapon you prefer. Freedom is a good thing in combat design.