US orders Chinese consulate to close

[crimson5pheonix]

Chinese consulate in Houston ordered to close by US

Unidentified people were filmed burning paper in the consulate's courtyard after the order was made.

www.bbc.com

What it says on the tin, very abruptly Trump ordered the Chinese out of the consulate in Houston, and now firefighters are putting out the fires caused by burning paper as the Chinese throw it out.

 

[Gordon_4]

Huh, a good old fashioned diplomatic expulsion, haven’t had one of those in a while.

 

[Revnak]

I’m kinda unsure what’s going on here? Is Trump actually going to take genuine stance against China despite the economic fallout of that decision? What? I always assume talking tough about China is just rhetoric, but this has real consequences.

 

[Trunkage]

I’m kinda unsure what’s going on here? Is Trump actually going to take genuine stance against China despite the economic fallout of that decision? What? I always assume talking tough about China is just rhetoric, but this has real consequences.

I mean, coronavirus has screwed over most economies. Even if China tries something, its not going to have as big an effect as COVID

I like how she called jobs moving to China Job Theft. It’s definitely the fault of the parents companies, sis. Focusing on profits is bad. Blaming it on China is like blaming climate change on the wind

 

[Agema]

I’m kinda unsure what’s going on here? Is Trump actually going to take genuine stance against China despite the economic fallout of that decision? What? I always assume talking tough about China is just rhetoric, but this has real consequences.

It may be connected to two Chinese researchers in the USA that are wanted by the FBI for lying about their links to the People's Liberation Army - essentially, there's concern they have gained access to a major US university with the intent of stealing scientific knowledge. One has taken refuge in the San Francisco consulate.

Shutting a consulate is a significant, but still relatively minor slap. Gunning for the embassy itself would be a sign of things really going to shit.

I suspect, however, it's mostly theatre: the oldest trick in the book to sabre-rattle and amplify external threats.

 

[deleted20220709]

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[Agema]

China has, in return, tit-for-tat closed the US consulate in Chengdu.

Opinion is that as this is a low-impact consulate to close as it covers some low-importance states, China is attempting to minimise escalation.

 

[Trunkage]

China has, in return, tit-for-tat closed the US consulate in Chengdu.

Opinion is that as this is a low-impact consulate to close as it covers some low-importance states, China is attempting to minimise escalation.

Isnt Chengdu third in important after Shanghai and Beijing?

 

[Agema]

Isnt Chengdu third in important after Shanghai and Beijing?

Important to China, maybe. Not important to representation of US citizens, who will relatively rarely be found in the areas covered by that consulate.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Well seems like the claim is sheltering a wanted person who happened to be a researcher and ex member of the Chinese military

FBI arrests Chinese researcher for visa fraud after she hid at consulate in San Francisco

A researcher who took refuge in the Chinese Consulate in San Francisco after allegedly lying to investigators about her Chinese military service was arrested and will appear in court on Friday, according to a senior Justice Department official.

www.cnbc.com

Also she might have been stealing intellectual property possibly with others

Chinese consulate in Houston ordered to close by US

Unidentified people were filmed burning paper in the consulate's courtyard after the order was made.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Trunkage]

Well seems like the claim is sheltering a wanted person who happened to be a researcher and ex member of the Chinese military

FBI arrests Chinese researcher for visa fraud after she hid at consulate in San Francisco

A researcher who took refuge in the Chinese Consulate in San Francisco after allegedly lying to investigators about her Chinese military service was arrested and will appear in court on Friday, according to a senior Justice Department official.

www.cnbc.com

Also she might have been stealing intellectual property possibly with others

Chinese consulate in Houston ordered to close by US

Unidentified people were filmed burning paper in the consulate's courtyard after the order was made.

www.bbc.co.uk

In other news, the sky is blue.

Always assume that any staff in any country in any consulate is a spy. It would be weird if they werent

 

[Agema]

In other news, the sky is blue.

Always assume that any staff in any country in any consulate is a spy. It would be weird if they werent

In practice, I suspect most of the senior personnel in consulates and embassies aren't spies - they'll be career diplomats and bureaucrats too busy with their day-to-day management to spy. They may well have some peripheral awareness of espionage operations, including possibly who the spies amongst their staff are. Also, of course, a lot of the lower level roles in the average embassy or consulate are filled by citizens of the host country: they don't need to haul one of their own 4000 miles just to do some filing, order replacements for lost passports and stamp documents.

 

[deleted20220709]

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[SupahEwok]

To add to what Agema said, being a spy is generally quite hard if you're from the outside. There's a reason most spies are recruited in their own country of residence and after they've reached a position where their job allows them access to sensitive information, because that's simply much easier then training someone and then spending a decade or so on an operation that's meant to give them access to potentially interesting information.

If an established professor starts taking interest in sensitive research, most people will assume it is a professional interest or semi-professional curiosity and they've got a lot of institutional trust to cushion suspicions. If your newest doctorate (bonus points if they're also from a hostile nation like Russia or China) starts wanting to see all that sensitive research, warning flags will fly up faster then a ballistic missile. The same goes for diplomatic and embassy staff, most of them are already foreigners and are occupied doing administrative work. The people who are spies or intelligence officers tend to be pretty easy to spot, because they are either already known factors or don't spend most of their waking time working at the embassy. It is simply easier for the intelligence officer to recruit local spies that report to them in most cases, instead of trying to run infiltration operations themselves.

Actually (or perhaps, in addendum), there's cases even in academia where you're not allowed to see or work on sensitive materials if you aren't a US citizen. I was part of a research lab, and they wanted to hire a PhD student as a research assistant. However, she was from Spain (not even a US enemy!), and there were a ton of hoops they had to jump through to assure NASA, the FAA, and the military that she would be compartmentalized away from any of the projects and contracts the lab took on from those guys (there were more than a few).

 

[Agema]

Actually (or perhaps, in addendum), there's cases even in academia where you're not allowed to see or work on sensitive materials if you aren't a US citizen. I was part of a research lab, and they wanted to hire a PhD student as a research assistant. However, she was from Spain (not even a US enemy!), and there were a ton of hoops they had to jump through to assure NASA, the FAA, and the military that she would be compartmentalized away from any of the projects and contracts the lab took on from those guys (there were more than a few).

In reality, this has been going on years as a matter of course. And I say all the following knowing the wider context that Western nations and corporations also steal off each other and everyone else. (A friend of mine in the past claimed one his uncles worked in IT for a multinational and was occasionally tasked with to trying to hack competitors.)

Firstly, a lot of the reason that foreign scientists come to Western countries (often funded by their governments) is to learn our stuff and, often, take that expertise back home. I don't actually object to this, because my attitude to education is that it transcends borders. Governments with security concerns, however, have to accept that they are de facto training their geopolitical opponents - although there is of course a benefit that they often get to keep a lot of the other country's talent, because some those people will decide not to go back.

Secondly, places like China are obvously trying to get people into sensitive research projects, and obviously with the intent they'll be taking specialised knowledge. Not necessarily illegally of course - no-one can wipe out what people learn. But there are lots of cases where researchers appear to have accessed and downloaded an awful lot of stuff before heading home, including data that they almost certainly did not generate. That isn't necessarily on state or company orders - an ambitious individual has enough motive to steal data for personal gain as they can sell it or whatever. But I would not be surprised if there were literally hundreds of Chinese researchers in the USA currently with some degree of intent and/or state encouragement to steal research data for their home country, and the more sensitive the better.