Used Games are simply another form of Piracy (THQ joins EA to stop the used games market)

[DontHassleTheHoff]

I'd say that legally, there's a big difference. Because yes, from the developer's POV, it's the same. But with piracy, you as the buyer are getting something for free, which the developers wanted you to pay for. With second-hand stuff, you're paying for it. I kind of see the point, but I don't see how they'll persuade people about this.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

*Picks up a Violin and begins playing Bach's violin concerto in an infinitely ironic fashion*

A lament, for the hurt feelings of the publishing industry....

 

[shadow skill]

You know from a book publisher's point of view the guy who goes to a bookstore and sits down and reads a book in it's entirety or in part and then walks out without buying a copy is the same as the person who gets a book from a friend and reads it. Someone who read the material without paying for it. What do you not see? A big deal made out of it where books are printed with special invisible ink requiring a goddamn decoder ring!

 

[Small Waves]

Why would I even dare dream of dishing out the launch price if I was only willing to buy their product at a discounted price? Comparing buying used games to piracy is inane and it comes off as bitching about people trying to be frugal.

You're trying to save money? YOU FUCKING THIEF YOU ARE THE CANCER KILLING THE INDUSTRY.

Fuck that shit. Be happy that someone bought the game back when it was new. If a used title is at half price of a "new" copy, odds are the game has been around for at least two years. If you haven't made back your money by then, tough fucking shit. We don't owe any of the companies anything to by a "new" copy of a game. It's an opinion for the consumer to choose, not the creator. If we think it's good enough to pay full price, some will. If not, deal it with. At least the store (you know, those places that sell your crap) is getting money instead of no one.

Besides, EA is one of the last distributors that have the right to throw a bitchfit about used sales. They are one of the most successful video game companies in the western hemisphere. I hold no sympathy for a company that rakes in billions of dollars yearly in revenues.

 

[Baneat]

Boils down to the one question:

are they consumables, or are they possessions?

problem is, that that depends on the game.

 

[sabbat]

If the game has been paid for, then it doesn't matter weather it's resold, they have their cut. I mean, what do they expect you to do? Play the game and then just leave it lying around collecting dust?

 

[vxicepickxv]

Buying new games is bad for the environment, buy used, reduce your carbon footprint.

 

[Babitz]

So I guess buying used cars is also a piracy nowadays.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

Does Panasonic feel the pain when I have friends over to watch a movie on my large screened TV, because someone is watching it who did not pay for it? Does the manufacturer of my couch complain that I am not the only one who has fallen asleep on it, or whose ass is the only one it makes comfortable? Do the beer companies complain when I share my 12-pack with some buds? If I was to set up a party, buy all of the setup myself, and then charge a slight admission to the party, to recover some of those expenses, is that too piracy? No, they are not. The companies has been paid full price for their products, and their product gets used more than they might have intended, but they were still compensated for their product. Whatever happens after they get paid is irrelevant to them, since they will get no more money off the product. This is not piracy, this is consumerism.

 

[Jibblejab]

Well this EA thing doesnt affect me because...

1: I dont buy 2nd hand games because on numerous occasions I have gotten home and found out that my game just doesnt work. And my console just grunts and wont play the disc. :/

2: I dont like EA's games.

 

[Layzor]

So by thier logic only I am allowed to sit in a chair that I buy and I am not allowed to sell that chair to anyone.

 

[Trako]

Just another reason to boycott EA.

 

[Gindil]

Sure, breaking the disc in half or cutting holes in it will destroy data, but that does not happen as a result of normal operation in functional systems.

Damage occurs if it just sits on your table for 5 years. Damage occurs even if you store it in a vacuum and without light and leave it there for a few years.

Damage occurs every time you put it in the DVD-reader/console.

Face it, DVDs and CDs get damaged in normal use, and experience loss of data even when not use, or never intentionally damaged.

That is the main reason they are so unsuitable for long-term data-storage for companies. Even if you backup the data to them, then just leave them to optimal environmental conditions, data is still lost over a decade or two.

Everyone who's used a single CD or DVD over a period of few years knows that even in normal use, the surface gets damaged. It doesn't matter how little, or how infrequently. It happens. Therefore, over time, data is lost or corrupted. Therefore, your argument is invalidated, again.

Also, I notice you moving the goalposts, yet again - at first it was that no data is lost over meaningful time periods. Then it was that no data is lost as long as they are handled properly.

-hurrrr-

Yes, use causes no real degradation, while the media itself degrades naturally over time, depending on the quality of the manufacture.

I'm glad we're in agreement, again.

[? Ok... Strawman here...]

Ya know... You've moved your posts around around a lot in just this one argument. First you say, the CD doesn't get damaged. Sak Sak shows you it does. Then you say normal operation use means we lose data then:

???

You win?

Sorry, an argument doesn't work like that. You've given nothing on your side to truly convince others that somehow, through normal use, the data won't be corrupted. In fact, that happens to almost any media. Judging from your past posts, all you're going to do is say "Well, I still win because XYZ..." with nothing really backing up your argument.

Normal use causes wear and tear even to CDs and DVDs. Read it yourself [http://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/pub121/sec4.html]

One method for determining end of life for a disc is based on the number of errors on a disc before the error correction occurs. The chance of disc failure increases with the number of errors, but it is impossible to define the number of errors in a disc that will absolutely cause a performance problem (minor or catastrophic) because it depends on the number of errors left, after error correction, and their distribution within the data. When the number of errors (before error correction) on a disc increases to a certain level, the chance of disc failure, even if small, can be deemed unacceptable and thus signal the disc's end of life.

ROM disc longevity is determined by the extent to which its aluminum layer is exposed to oxygen. Oxygen, including pollutants, can migrate through the polycarbonate layer or the hard lacquer layer (CD label side and edge), carried in by moisture. Oxygen or moisture can more easily penetrate through scratches, cracks, or delaminated areas in the label. Oxygen can also be trapped inside the disc during manufacturing, although manufacturing improvements have reduced the likelihood of this.

Basically, what these two parts are telling is that you may have loss through scratches in a disc, the laser, or other parts that make a disc ineligible to be read. Through no fault of your own, and something done by the manufacturer, you may have a faulty disc. Just as cassette tapes or any other media have had problems, so too, does the current generation of media.

 

[Vitor Goncalves]

Second-hand sales means legally acquiring a used product, which cannot afterwards be used by the original purchaser. The creator of said product has been paid for his work.

The publisher has been paid once and yet two people have played the game for that money. Piracy is simply that on a larger scale, and usually gets more money from pirates who later bought the game.

A car manufacturer manufactures one car.

It goes to a taxi driver, who drives people around in it for a year.

It then gets sold to a family of 4.

Three years later, a college kid buys it out to sqeeze out the last few dozen k miles out from it.

One car. Manufacturer got paid once. The store got paid once.

Several people used it.

Explain to me how this is car piracy.

It's not! The problem is, countries legal systems need to put a limit on what developers consider illegal. That probably is one of the things that is on the basis of questioning EULA authenticity because many/most of them say that basically you are buying the right to play the game, not the game, therefore you should not share, or sell or copy to redistribute it. So in other words for them is like if you are renting for an ulimited period (and that period these days can even be limited either due to monthly fees or to the use of on-line log in that can prevent you from playing a game again if the server is one day to be removed)

That to me seems nonsense. Once you buy something its yours. I think developers are going a bit too far and like someone said in another thread, treating costumers like criminals.

I can understand the point as someone said before that people who buy second hand are more likely to had purchase first hand then people who download pirated games. But even so one copy of the game can only be bought second hand by another person while piracy as no limit for the copies spawned for free. I don't see any reason why to buy a PC game second hand as their prices drop substantially after not long (besides wanting to play it as soon as possible). As for consoles games, at least in Portugal, they tend to preserve the ridiculous high prices for years and years until the console is replaced by a new generation one.

 

[shadow skill]

You know from a book publisher's point of view the guy who goes to a bookstore and sits down and reads a book in it's entirety or in part and then walks out without buying a copy is the same as the person who gets a book from a friend and reads it. Someone who read the material without paying for it. What do you not see? A big deal made out of it where books are printed with special invisible ink requiring a goddamn decoder ring!

They don't care because it doesn't cost $60,000,000 to write a fucking book. They get thousands upon thousands of manuscripts daily which they either reject or accept at their leisure.

You think that doesn't happen for game publishers? You think that doesn't happen for any kind of publisher? The cost of games vs. books is irrelevant as the "loss" would still be there for both types of publishers who have operating costs in their respective businesses.

 

[Hellion25]

The way I see it with the used games trade is that the companies that sell used games will usually pump a good chunk of that money into buying the latest releases in bulk to sell to their customers. Imagine if you take away all of that used game revenue from the game stores. Think of how much of a massive chunk of money they will be missing that could be used to fund stocking new games as well as used. Granted, of course, every store will also be looking to turn a profit, but you have to think that some of the money the used games market generates gets pumped back into the industry.

It makes me wonder if less financial clout could mean places like Gamestop and the like will only start selling big name titles and cutting out lesser known titles. I personally think the used games trade is vital for the industry as a whole and to me it seems to be doing perfectly fine seeing how big the gaming industry has grown.