Utah creates 5 person commission to regulate one trans girl playing sports

Silvanus

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The studies not the Youtube video...
I directly addressed the studies provided directly, like the NIH one that didn't have anything to do with the topic at hand. The only thing here I'm consciously not engaging with is YouTube guff, because I'm trying to drag you away from that terrible practice.
 

Phoenixmgs

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This is what Sabine stated:
One study found that 2 years after transitioning, the transwomen might have increased performance
ALSO, after 15 years there is NO increased performance

You ignored a whole second statement. In fact, you rewrote it to fit your own narrative

I know this is going to be completely useless pointing this out, but I'll try anyway. It's the 5th time I've done it and you still haven't understood the problem
No, I fucking didn't ignore that, I said that in 15 years athletes are past their primes (which she fucking said in the video as well). Also there's like no data on long-term effect of transitioning. The study you are referencing is like the only one and it only had 8 participants. I guess we should base our vaccine policy on that one autism study that only had 12 participants then...

Talk about me ignoring stuff (that I didn't fucking ignore), you ignore the part where she said the study said that trans women roughty maintained their strength levels. Or the meta review of several studies that said trans women have advantage in strength, LBM, and muscle area even 36 months into transitioning. All the studies have agree with the conclusion that it isn't fair. You're literally ignoring the much much better data in favor of data you just want to be true.

It's sports, there are zero people with the same ability, and yet rags to riches stories are a regular in a *lot* of sports
Almost nobody has any wide scale, definitive, or conclusive data about anything, this is a fairly new field, your protestations towards "science" notwithstanding

Ligaments: https://transcare.ucsf.edu/article/information-estrogen-hormone-therapy

Bones: https://www.mayoclinic.org/medical-...gender-nonconforming-individuals/mac-20477707
It's the same logic, it's just the consequences you take issue with. You'd think an adherent of deontology would recognize that.

Trans girls should play with cis girls, trans boys should play with cis boys, lest y'all keep getting mad at Mack Beggs every 6 months
Money has a lot less to do with being good at sports (outside of the expensive sports like figure skating) than being financially successful in life.

What do you think these "papers" are even saying? Neither are concerned with seeing how trans women compare to women. The actual studies on that all say that it's not fair. You just pick the stuff that says things you like vs looking at the best data we have and going by that.

It's not the same logic because sex/gender with marriage doesn't matter, but it matters in sport.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Money has a lot less to do with being good at sports (outside of the expensive sports like figure skating) than being financially successful in life.
You we're the one who brought up growing up in a well off family, my dude. Regardless, trans people aren't exactly dominating jack and/or squat with regards to sports, so logic dictates we're in the ballpark fairness wise
What do you think these "papers" are even saying? Neither are concerned with seeing how trans women compare to women.
They are literally about the effects of hormone replacement therapy on trans people.
It's not the same logic because sex/gender with marriage doesn't matter, but it matters in sport.
It's the exact same logic, you just reject the premise of the former and accept the premise of the latter
 

Phoenixmgs

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You we're the one who brought up growing up in a well off family, my dude. Regardless, trans people aren't exactly dominating jack and/or squat with regards to sports, so logic dictates we're in the ballpark fairness wise
They are literally about the effects of hormone replacement therapy on trans people.
It's the exact same logic, you just reject the premise of the former and accept the premise of the latter
Who cares if they are or are not dominating something? Use the actual scientific data we have.

One was talking about bone health should be fine if you transition. How does that have anything to do with athletic performance? The other one says " Some people may notice minor changes in shoe size or height"; there isn't a minor difference between men and women. How is anything you posted in any fucking way proving fair competition? Nor were these papers aimed at doing that either. But you just ignore the studies (that literally all agree with each other) that are about studying whether it's fair or not.

Stop with the fucking bullshit.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Who cares if they are or are not dominating something? Use the actual scientific data we have.
The actual scientific data and real world examples we have show that they aren't dominating women's sports. So who cares?
One was talking about bone health should be fine if you transition. How does that have anything to do with athletic performance? The other one says " Some people may notice minor changes in shoe size or height"; there isn't a minor difference between men and women.
Uhh, yeah, there's actually a fair bit of overlap. We aren't nearly as sexually dimorphic as other species.
How is anything you posted in any fucking way proving fair competition? Nor were these papers aimed at doing that either. But you just ignore the studies (that literally all agree with each other) that are about studying whether it's fair or not.
See, I already posted times, showed some of the many instances trans people lost, and generally did the napkin math showing that it seems fair. Life isn't your white-room math simulations and you're wrong about those anyway. What evidence would you accept, rules such that a trans women could never actually win? I honestly do not believe it would be possible to convince you specifically of fairness short of literal divine intervention
Stop with the fucking bullshit.
No
 
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Phoenixmgs

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The actual scientific data and real world examples we have show that they aren't dominating women's sports. So who cares?
Uhh, yeah, there's actually a fair bit of overlap. We aren't nearly as sexually dimorphic as other species.
See, I already posted times, showed some of the many instances trans people lost, and generally did the napkin math showing that it seems fair. Life isn't your white-room math simulations and you're wrong about those anyway. What evidence would you accept, rules such that a trans women could never actually win? I honestly do not believe it would be possible to convince you specifically of fairness short of literal divine intervention
No
The data says they will have advantage and dominate.

Different enough that if men compete with women, they will dominate.

You can't use a handful of examples to prove something. Napkin math doesn't cut it. The evidence I'll except is the literal studies they've done to show whether or not transitioning removes male advantage and literally all of them have said the advantage is still there. What evidence will you accept? I'm accepting the very best data and studies we have on the subject, you're accepting "napkin math".

Real big "why are you calling us straight when we're normal" energy.
I can't use terms the way they are defined?
 

TheMysteriousGX

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The data says they will have advantage and dominate.
Except they verifiably do not do that. So the data is wrong
Different enough that if men compete with women, they will dominate.
Not a thing that's happening, and sport dependent
You can't use a handful of examples to prove something.
"A handful of examples" is literally all we have
Napkin math doesn't cut it. The evidence I'll except is the literal studies they've done to show whether or not transitioning removes male advantage and literally all of them have said the advantage is still there. What evidence will you accept? I'm accepting the very best data and studies we have on the subject, you're accepting "napkin math".
Yeah. White room math isn't matching reality.
I can't use terms the way they are defined?
If you are comparing trans women to women, then you are partially comparing trans women to themselves.
 

thebobmaster

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See, I already posted times, showed some of the many instances trans people lost, and generally did the napkin math showing that it seems fair. Life isn't your white-room math simulations and you're wrong about those anyway. What evidence would you accept, rules such that a trans women could never actually win? I honestly do not believe it would be possible to convince you specifically of fairness short of literal divine intervention
I honestly think that if there was literal divine intervention, Phoenix would argue with whatever deity was involved, and walk away feeling they had won.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Except they verifiably do not do that. So the data is wrong
Not a thing that's happening, and sport dependent
"A handful of examples" is literally all we have
Yeah. White room math isn't matching reality.
If you are comparing trans women to women, then you are partially comparing trans women to themselves.
And if someone like LeBron transitioned, they would dominate the WNBA. The gap between men and women isn't that great that any man transitioning will dominate women.

It literally is a thing that is happening, that's why men and women are separated.

We have studies... that you ignore...

No I'm not if I'm using the term as defined.

Well, at least you're now being explicit that your position is just grounded in old-fashioned prejudice.
I'm using the term as defined. Women is based on sex not gender.

I honestly think that if there was literal divine intervention, Phoenix would argue with whatever deity was involved, and walk away feeling they had won.
Not my fault you all don't like science.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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And if someone like LeBron transitioned, they would dominate the WNBA. The gap between men and women isn't that great that any man transitioning will dominate women.
Given that the WNBA doesn't ban trans women from playing, wake me up if it ever starts happening.

I mean, it won't, but still
It literally is a thing that is happening, that's why men and women are separated.
There are zero dominant trans women in sports
We have studies... that you ignore...
John_Travolta.gif
No I'm not if I'm using the term as defined.
Hilarious semantic argument given that you haven't defined terms and are objecting to defined terms for "unkown" reasons
I'm using the term as defined. Women is based on sex not gender.
You're thinking of Female, and really only when talking about non-human animals. Please don't turn this into yet more "how dare you call women people!"
Not my fault you all don't like science.
You're demanding proof that science cannot show. Not because the science say something else, but because science is incapable of ever showing proof like that
 

Phoenixmgs

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Given that the WNBA doesn't ban trans women from playing, wake me up if it ever starts happening.

I mean, it won't, but still
There are zero dominant trans women in sports
John_Travolta.gif
Hilarious semantic argument given that you haven't defined terms and are objecting to defined terms for "unkown" reasons
You're thinking of Female, and really only when talking about non-human animals. Please don't turn this into yet more "how dare you call women people!"

You're demanding proof that science cannot show. Not because the science say something else, but because science is incapable of ever showing proof like that
Cuz nobody cares about the WNBA.

Because there are so few of them.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Just fucking Google "woman definition" (It's sex, not gender)

1658978302371.png

"You're thinking of Female" ----- Look up!!!


We do have scientific proof... you just ignore it like those people in Don't Look Up, you're not looking up are you?
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Cuz nobody cares about the WNBA.
So now that we've eliminated the profit motive, how's that "there's zero dominant trans women in women's sports" thing?

Because there are so few of them.
No, because demographic surveys don't work like that. Same way as you can't claim somebody is smart just because their general peer group is smart. Matter of fact, your insistence that trans women who're shorter than their opponents have a height advantage regardless is exactly the thing. Men generally being taller than women doesn't give Mugsy Bogues a height advantage, but that's the sort of logic you want to use
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Just fucking Google "woman definition" (It's sex, not gender)

View attachment 6681

"You're thinking of Female" ----- Look up!!!


We do have scientific proof... you just ignore it like those people in Don't Look Up, you're not looking up are you?
"We have scientific proof!" Posts a screenshot of a definition of woman that doesn't differentiate between sex and gender, purely because he objects to the adjective cis

We get it, you aren't straight cis, you're normal and how dare They make you change
 
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Trunkage

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"We have scientific proof!" Posts a screenshot of a definition of woman that doesn't differentiate between sex and gender, purely because he objects to the adjective cis

We get it, you aren't straight cis, you're normal and how dare They make you change
It's going to blow Phoenixings mind when they hear transwomen say they have their own period

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