Valve Considering Ditching TF2 Item Unlock System

[Jumplion]

Designing competitive multiplayer games works kind of different, though. In those, the skill is the reward. It's a bad idea to give someone better equipment just because they happened to have played longer. I get it in most MMOs where the environment is your enemy and the equipment also has this status but fighting against veterans who get access to all sorts of toys that you don't is just lame. It's a double whammy: you get steamrolled not only because you're worse than them but also because they have superior equipment.

I was under the impression that unlockable weapons in TF2 aren't "better" they're just "different" and there just to give it more variety not give older players an advantage? Usually there's a downside to the new unlockable weaopns, no? Well, if that's not the case, VALVe is doing a really bad job at keeping their multiplayer game balanced ;o

As for the system, I find it incredibly unbalanced in itself. A new player could get a random weapon while an older player could play for weeks while playing as the Scout but get every other class weapon. Besides the achievment system, I'm not sure exactly what else they can do, but i'm glad they think the random system isn't good.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

"I think we've learned that the random drop system is only good for some types of things, like the rare cosmetic hats," Valve's Robin Walker told CommunityFortress [http://communityfortress.com/tf2/news/exclusive-interview-with-valves-robin-walker.php]. The drops might be good for getting items to new players and avoiding achievement grinding, but for others, Walker admitted that it's less than adequate. "For competitive players, it's obviously a bad way to deliver items."

Valve really needs to hire me. If I was sitting there in the "idea room" when someone said "Hey I know, let's have it be time-based and they get a random weapon!" Had I been there, I could have just told them that it was a bad idea without them needing to implement the idea to find out.

 

[scotth266]

Death to the random unlock system. At least with the achievement-based system you had the option of achievement boxing your way to the better weapons.

What do you have here? AFK servers were the trend last time I checked in...

 

[Snotnarok]

It was a somewhat okay idea but I really had no benefit from it, I never got a new item from this system, I earned them after they "re-unlocked" the achievement system for earning weapons. Hell I still don't have the razor back and I play often, I rarely get anything either. Yet my brother who's downstairs gets items every 4 seconds and has duplicates of every weapons 4 times over.

 

[Skandalouz]

Hmm Random drop for the hats.. I think they should make it soo u have to complete Every achv for each class to get the hat.. but thats just my opinon

 

[Citrus]

I'm very glad to hear this, but I knew Valve wouldn't keep this system; they can do a lot better, and it's nice when a company recognizes this.

Now if only they'd tone down the Dead Ringer... =(

The dead ringer doesn't need to be toned down at all. Just play pyro and its rarely a problem.

Someone asked earlier and I didn't see a response but does the level of an item have any effect?

Having to kill spies twice every time is a problem, especially since it reduces the damage of an otherwise lethal attack the first time. It's just a very poor mechanic compared to all of the other unlockables Valve has released.

Also, no, the level has no effect.

 

[plastic_window]

I'm very glad to hear this, but I knew Valve wouldn't keep this system; they can do a lot better, and it's nice when a company recognizes this.

Now if only they'd tone down the Dead Ringer... =(

The dead ringer doesn't need to be toned down at all. Just play pyro and its rarely a problem.

Someone asked earlier and I didn't see a response but does the level of an item have any effect?

Jarate works just as well, it still stains the cloaked spy after the fake corpse is dropped.

I can understand that the random drops needed fixing, I was never a big fan of them, but surely you need to do something to unlock the new weapons? Achievements work fine by me, but I think an idea may be that you can pick up your foe's weapon if you killed him. So, for instance, a sniper killing a heavy who drops his KGB to the floor would be able to pick up that particular weapon, but not his team-mates.

 

[SnowCold]

I forgive Valve for that horrid system for having the balls to admit they were wrong.

 

[squid5580]

How about you ditch the acheviements system as well and just unlock everything at start

Where I do kind of agree I also kinda don't. Don't tie these items to achievements would be my suggestion. Random drops are stupid to begin with but tying achievements to them is even more ridiculous. There should be something to work for but better weapons that are random is not one of those things. 10 headshots gets you a better sniper rifle. Things like that. And if people boost it they boost it. Someone will always figure out a way to exploit the system.

 

[Citrus]

I'm very glad to hear this, but I knew Valve wouldn't keep this system; they can do a lot better, and it's nice when a company recognizes this.

Now if only they'd tone down the Dead Ringer... =(

The dead ringer doesn't need to be toned down at all. Just play pyro and its rarely a problem.

Someone asked earlier and I didn't see a response but does the level of an item have any effect?

Having to kill spies twice every time is a problem, especially since it reduces the damage of an otherwise lethal attack the first time. It's just a very poor mechanic compared to all of the other unlockables Valve has released.

Also, no, the level has no effect.

That's why I use pyro against them- if you hold the fire on and wave it in an arc you tend to ignite them a 2nd time even as they are cloaked. Because they are injured, they tend to die fairly quickly.

But not everybody likes playing as the pyro, and not all pyros are around all the time to help re-kill spies. For all the other classes, it's a ridiculous hassle to be running around the base killing the same guy over and over again. I don't even know how Valve could effectively nerf it without ruining it, though; I think the game would just be better off if they took it out and maybe gave the spy something else.

 

[Credge]

There's another thing! What happened to the trading system they were supposedly implementing?
And also, do the levels of dropped weapons actually mean anything whatsoever?

It probably won't be implemented because the initial system is bogus and terrible.

And no, they don't actually mean anything. The system is bogus and terrible.

 

[Credge]

Where I do kind of agree I also kinda don't. Don't tie these items to achievements would be my suggestion. Random drops are stupid to begin with but tying achievements to them is even more ridiculous. There should be something to work for but better weapons that are random is not one of those things. 10 headshots gets you a better sniper rifle. Things like that. And if people boost it they boost it. Someone will always figure out a way to exploit the system.

Here's the thing. None of these things are supposed to be better. Some are, because it's almost impossible to strike a balance between two things that are supposed to be used in different situations. However, they're not supposed to be better.

Also, all you did was simply tie upgrades to achievements. =\

 

[Dusty Donuts]

I'm very glad. They should have some sort of super impossible achievement to earn hats, at least to keep their coveted state. Those idle servers are taking up everything, and there is a fake idle program which allows people to not be using team fortress, but it appears to be. No problems, but it earned someone two hats in a week. If people really want hats, they should just play the game.

 

[squid5580]

Where I do kind of agree I also kinda don't. Don't tie these items to achievements would be my suggestion. Random drops are stupid to begin with but tying achievements to them is even more ridiculous. There should be something to work for but better weapons that are random is not one of those things. 10 headshots gets you a better sniper rifle. Things like that. And if people boost it they boost it. Someone will always figure out a way to exploit the system.

Here's the thing. None of these things are supposed to be better. Some are, because it's almost impossible to strike a balance between two things that are supposed to be used in different situations. However, they're not supposed to be better.

Also, all you did was simply tie upgrades to achievements. =\

They are only achievements if a little bubble pops up and says achievement unlocked Getting a new gun is a reward.

I meant to say don't tie achievements to random item drops. Defeats the whole purpose of the achievement system. You didn't achieve anything you got lucky. Even boosters are achieving something. It takes alot of work to boost some games. Make them lke that (like FEAR 2 where you get 1 xp point per kill but you need 1 million to get the final achievements). I have never seen so many boosters go offline in tears trying boosting that one lol. (buncha sissies)

 

[Goldbling]

Does this apply to the Xbox 360 version?

 

[randommaster]

Does this apply to the Xbox 360 version?

Unfortunatly, no. They are trying to find a way to get the massive amounts of upgrades onto the 360 version, so you might just have to wat for all the class upgrades before you see new weapons on the Xbox.

All I can say is that picture of the Scout never gets old.

 

[kibayasu]

I never really minded the random loot system, but I never found getting all 3 achievement levels hard (Except maybe when a demoman pack is released, I suck at the demoman).

 

[Schizzy]

While I would enjoy getting all that swag free... I won't have the satisfaction knowing that I got them legitimately through hard work.