Valve Fans Form Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group

[asiepshtain]

This is stupid.

These people are acting like its a subscription based MMOG, where the company has a duty ( and an incentive) for constant updates. It isn't!

This was a purchase game, that already got one major update, just because valve are great guys. But it made people think "Hey, they gave us a little better game, They must now update it for ever!". There is a saying in Hebrew that roughly translates to "You give someone a finger and he takes the whole hand" - Seems to fit very well here.

To sum up, These people are jerks. Valve actually executing a realistic development cycle is nothing short of a miracle.

p.s.

Where in the hell is episode three?!

 

[Paragon Fury]

Funny thing is - most people don't realize that work on the sequel for many series starts before the first game is out the door. So for a game thats not changing a whole lot of the basics for the series, and isn't making huge technical leaps and bounds, I'm not surprised its a little less then a year later.

Hell, even games that do make huge improvements on the original are known to come out less then a year later.

I say let it come.

 

[VoyagerI]

I'm not a member of the Boycott group, but I'm unhappy with Valve's actions and will not be buying L4D2 for more than maybe $20.

Let me make an analogy here for the less enlightened among us;

TF2 was released as part of the Orange Box or as a $20 standalone product. It has since received a large amount of post-release support in terms of patches and additional content. Although Valve has been open in stating that this is profitable advertisement rather than charity, those of us who already own the game obviously don't begrudge them making a profit off our free content.

Now imagine that, instead of this, TF2 was released in its initial as a $50 standalone, with the promise that all the additional content we have now would be added post-release. This sounds reasonable; even if the initial release is borderline beta-stage in terms of balance and content, it's still better to get to play it early and shape the development of the coming content, right? Sounds pretty cool...except instead of releasing the new content as DLC, Valve announces it all a year later as TF3 and charges another $50 for it. Oh, and this is in addition to all the content from TF2, so there's literally no reason to own it after the sequel comes out.

This is essentially what happened to the people who bought L4D. The Survivor pack was underwhelming and certainly not enough to constitute the amount of DLC promised for the game; no new weapons, survivors, infected, or campaigns, two "new" VS maps that people had already been playing since release with no modifications other than a slew of invisible walls, and a new gametype that is essentially a glorified mini-game and has a whole single new map that's about a 20th the size of a proper campaign.

We essentially payed $50 for the privilege of beta testing L4D2. Oh, and the new Special Infected answer to closet camping was cribbed straight off the Steam Forums.


I don't have a problem with the new atmosphere or the new characters, since I have enough faith in Valve as developers to pull it off well and don't have a reflexive hatred for daylight zombies, (and I like fiddles), but this was a scummy move coming from the last developer we thought was in it because they liked video games, rather than money.

 

[asiepshtain]

A company is releasing a sequel to a game not long after its release with only minor gameplay and graphical changes? To the internet! We won't stand for this! We'll boycott those bas-...wait, it's Valve? Oh by all means, let them get away with it, and flame anyone with a dissenting opinion. We have to take Valve's side in this, they can do no wrong. They're like Jesus if Jesus was a game developer.

This is Valve people, VALVE! We're the Escapist forum, we must defend them at all costs!

No release time published yet. no real knowledge on content, graphical or gameplay wise. And yes, valve track record is a thing of note.

You, sir, are cynically judging a game you know nothing about.

 

[Flunk]

Some people just have too much free time.

 

[Jennacide]

If you ever want laughs go to any of the Valve forums. All they are is complaints about one thing or another. The Valve boards are full of nothing but the small portion of the community that isn't ever happy.

While I'll concede that 2 should be more of an expansion to the first, I've fine with it as long as it works fine with the first game. Also, should of been named Left 4 Dead Too for the better gag.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

A company is releasing a sequel to a game not long after its release with only minor gameplay and graphical changes? To the internet! We won't stand for this! We'll boycott those bas-...wait, it's Valve? Oh by all means, let them get away with it, and flame anyone with a dissenting opinion. We have to take Valve's side in this, they can do no wrong. They're like Jesus if Jesus was a game developer.

This is Valve people, VALVE! We're the Escapist forum, we must defend them at all costs!

I hope you're being satirical either way, because this is exactly why I want VALVe taken down a notch.

Just because it's from VALVe does not mean that everything they do is pure gold. Sure, they make a lot of games, but this insane amount of fanboyism out of the company is, well, insane.

Yes yes, they make great games, fine. But that DOES NOT MEAN that they can't be criticized and debated against!

As much as I love Team ICO, I have to keep in mind that their next game could be a flop. As much as Insomniac is a consisten developer that pumps out games every year, I have to acknoledge the fact that sometimes the games do get glitchy. Just because they have an awesome track record for games doesn't not mean that they can't screw up and that does not mean that everything they make is perfect.

This. Besides, Valve is breaking a pattern here. Usually they take much, much too long to create a game. I've always assumed this was so they had time to perfect every little thing. It'll be interesting to see if Valve is capable of creating a quality game quickly. Sure, CoD does it, but that only proves different game companies can create different products at different speeds.

Developer loyalty is fine and all, but even the best devs can make a horrible game every now and then. Not everything Treasure makes is gold, and I thought Okami wasn't nearly as awesome as everyone else said. Just because it has a pedigree is no insurance against failure... Critical failure, anyway, because L4D2 could give its players cancer and it'd still sell like hotcakes.

 

[soulasylum85]

if u dont like it then dont buy it. people always need something to complain about. on a lighter note the fiddle part sounds cool

 

[Kiutu]

Just means better chance to walk in and buy it when it's out.

p.s. People will still be playing both heavily. It is not as though the first will become barren? People will prefer those maps, that style, and still trying to get the achievements, (and apparently also have the babies)
Stop looking at it as if EVERYONE will just never play it. People still play CoD2, people still play Halo 2, and Gears 1. Sequals do not make the one before it all of a sudden not work anymore.

 

[EnglishMuffin]

Wow most of you are fucking retarded. I can't believe a lot of you don't see the problem with releasing a sequel multiplayer game so soon after releasing the original when the original isn't even fucking done. You morons really are fine with throwing your money away on betas. Everything in l4d2 should be included for free to everyone who bought l4d. This is the first time valve has ever pulled this bullshit. I bought left 4 dead because I thought, like everything valve does, they would properly support the game sort of like TF2.

And honestly, you people really think boycotting doesn't work? If everyone does it, then it will make a difference. The problem is that gamers are retards(read this thread) and never stand up for themselves. I always buy valve games because they release quality products and properly support them. They have never released a beta and called it a game before, like other companies.

This is the first time valve has ever done this before and I am just shocked at them. I guess most of you would be too, but you are just all so used to being mushroom stamped by game companies.

1. Calling us fucking retarded morons doesn't do much for your argument, buddy.

2. You're pissed off about having to shell out another sixty bucks for content that's worth way more than that? What kind of logic is that?

3. They're still working on updating Left 4 Dead. They haven't abandoned it at all and will continue working with it until nobody plays it anymore.

4. Who said L4D 2 was going to be beta? Pics or it didn't happen.

And this is why I address you like-minded thinkers as fucking retarded morons.

First off, idiots need to be told they are idiots, otherwise they won't know. Remember they are idiots.

It's another 50 dollars on top of the original 50 dollars. This means the first 50 I dropped down on L4D was pointless and that was the BETA. And what do you mean content that is worth way more than 50 dollars? L4D isn't even worth the original 50 bucks yet.

And are you kidding me, why the fuck would they support l4d if 2 is coming out which will be better. Everyone would just move on to that one and if they don't then the community is fucking split up anyway. I don't think you understand how anything works.

P.S. I'm putting you in the fucking retarded moron group. Sorry. Here is your helmet.

 

[Schizzy]

But Valve said they're toying with the idea to merge the first with the second L4D, no? So what's the problem?

 

[SenseOfTumour]

To me, sure, LFD2 is on the way, is there any proof Valve are gonna drop LFD1 like a hot turd?

How long after the release of TF2 are they still pumping out huge updates for it?

Ok, there's no TF3, but if there was I still believe they'd finish the class updates for TF2.

The rest of it seems like minor complaints based on a short beta trailer.

Who's to say the music and characters aren't all work in progress or placeholders for better stuff?

I will agree it's perhaps too soon tho, but I guess they want to catch the xmas market and this gives them a few weeks to miss the Nov 17 deadline and still catch the big gift sales time.

In response to LFD becoming empty, I thought it was popular, and despite many other action rpgs and RTS space games, people still play Diablo II and Starcraft in their thousands
.

I'm sure enough people will either prefer LFD1 or can't afford 2 that playing 1 multiplayer will still be a viable option.

 

[Zayren]

Haha, the middle finger is nice.

But I don't care what they say, I will get L4D2, whenever it is released. Left 4 Dead is my favorite multiplayer game...

 

[El Taco the Rogue]

My biggest complaint is that they owe me Half Life 2 episode 3 before all this

 

[Booze Zombie]

Well, it does seem like a cop out by Valve, to be fair to the group.
I mean, they make a game and instead of bringing out some cheap DLC for a fiver, they decide to rehash the first game (but in New Orleans with melee weapons).

Genius.

 

[AceDiamond]

A company is releasing a sequel to a game not long after its release with only minor gameplay and graphical changes? To the internet! We won't stand for this! We'll boycott those bas-...wait, it's Valve? Oh by all means, let them get away with it, and flame anyone with a dissenting opinion. We have to take Valve's side in this, they can do no wrong. They're like Jesus if Jesus was a game developer.

This is Valve people, VALVE! We're the Escapist forum, we must defend them at all costs!

I hope you're being satirical either way, because this is exactly why I want VALVe taken down a notch.

Just because it's from VALVe does not mean that everything they do is pure gold. Sure, they make a lot of games, but this insane amount of fanboyism out of the company is, well, insane.

Yes yes, they make great games, fine. But that DOES NOT MEAN that they can't be criticized and debated against!

As much as I love Team ICO, I have to keep in mind that their next game could be a flop. As much as Insomniac is a consisten developer that pumps out games every year, I have to acknoledge the fact that sometimes the games do get glitchy. Just because they have an awesome track record for games doesn't not mean that they can't screw up and that does not mean that everything they make is perfect.

If not for the fact you walk the bleeding edge on defending Sony to the death on a consistent basis (albeit more sanely than most), I'd be more inclined to believe you.

Saying "you paid $50 for a beta" is a fucking stupid comment. Know why? Because I actually paid money for the game, and no, I don't think I was buying a beta. I have bought a beta before, I know the difference (that Beta being the consistently work-in-progress Cortex Command) I still don't think I was buying a beta when I bought L4D. None of my friends think so either. I and they got our money's worth through playing and having fun with friends. I got a game that yes, was incomplete but was brought up to completed status in due time with DLC. I have not had a moment where I thought "damn I better get the SDK for this soon or I'm going to get bored, or "damn this game is so fucking incomplete why'd they put it out like this". Is that a matter of defending Valve? No. It is a matter of defending my purchase judgement as well as knowing the difference between a game hurled out the door without anyone giving a damn as to its completion and a game that was complete enough for people to buy without reluctantly saying "well i'll buy it 'cause it's Valve" or "I'll buy it despite EA's fingerprints all over it".

To act so butthurt over not having an SDK is basically saying "I did not buy this game to play a game", and to me that person has waived their right to *****. And you know what? While some of these boycott arguments are valid, they are also accompanied by some that are atrociously nit-picky. But ultimately we have to consider the biggest issue, which is that people are trying to attention whore themselves by loudly announcing this boycott. Hell there wasn't even a loudly announced boycott of TF2 when they put out the new unlock system. Were there people mad? absolutely. But nobody formed a publicized group saying "I'm going to boycott TF2 until I get my damn milestones back". This isn't about "betrayal" or anything else. If these people wanted to legitimately get something solved or get answers there are better ways to do it than acting like a tit and grasping for straws on everything they can't possibly like.

I'm all for protest, but this is no protest. This is attention whoring in the erroneous belief of these 3000-odd people that they will be able to force radical change and delay a piece of software, thus delaying everything else Valve is working on etc. in a vicious cycle.

Oh and one more thing

The announced date is not nearly enough time to polish content or make significant gameplay changes

Oh really? And how would they know? Simple. They don't. Nor do they care to learn because if they did they'd just disregard any contrary information. Misinformed and misguided, I rest my case. My stance does not come from wanting to defend Valve. My stance comes from the intense dislike of the feeling of entitlement many gamers have gotten in recent years, along with another set of gamers feeling like they need to see companies suffer in order to feel better about themselves. And that's stupid.

And will I buy L4D2 when it comes out? Yes. Not because it's Valve, but because I am legitimately interested in the game, controversy and bitching be damned. And fine, if the story is true that L4D1 was basically something they had to put out for money and to test the idea, well I'm glad I could support them and I'm glad they at least made a full enough game out of it. I do not feel cheated, and if this were any other company that developed this, even EA, I would not say any differently.

EDIT: You know, it used to be people wouldn't complain about shelling out more money for "add-on packs", remember those days? What happened to those. Oh right, people decided they were owed something.

 

[Mykonos]

Well, I'm Cajun and I enjoy killing zombies. This game is right up my alley.

Dibs on Nick. : D

 

[Branches]

The entire saying that L4D was just a test is an argument that smells fishy. Do you understand the stupidity of "Testing" a community for almost a year. It is EXACTLY why most of the original DoD 1.3 community left DoD:Source and gave their business to Activision and Treyarch with WaW?

Being lied to sucks, especially when you actually go out of your way to pay for a game that was promised content that wasn't followed through with. Especially in this day and age, when games are 60, even 70 bucks for a game that will last for like 3-4 hours. L4D is a fun game, don't get me wrong, but L4D2 just seems like Team Fortress 2.

I'm not one to running around and yelling about how people are so stupid because they are just trying to have their voices heard, like the DoD community has for almost 3 years. Have fun playing, I think I'll just stick with the first.