Valve haters, vs Valve fanboys. DRM and Why do some people hate Valve and steam?

[Apl_J]

Free Pass?

I guess no one remembers when Valve took their licks for DRM years back. Aside from the UI which, despite opinions, is in no way counterproductive, there's not really any valid complaints in this thread. Valve has had DRM for years and has proven to respect its consumer by keeping its DRM minimal and non-intrusive. Besides one time activation, I've never once had issues starting a game purchased on Steam. I don't know where people pull the 'cheaper' than gog/humbebundle thing from, because I shop regularly on all three and the prices are the same within the dollar, unless there's a sale going on or the game is ancient.

There's a field of play when it comes to digital distribution. No one who wants to make the most money for their game are going to release on GoG or HunbleBundle. It may sound greedy, but building a successful title without a huge publisher behind it is a terrifying experience, requiring excruciating dedication and hard work, and a great deal of luck. On the other hand, Nintendo doesn't even have an account system. Each purchase gets you a single download of the game on a single device. Even Sony and MS caps the amount of devices you can have attached to one account, and the PS3/360-era downloaded titles will lose support before long.

And then there's Steam, right in the middle. Sure, there's DRM, but no one can honestly say its difficult to deal with, especially considering the competition. Some people feel like DRM is just there to annoy the player and take your money, but its there to protect investments and secure a baseline of profits. Throwing all the distribution services in one box and then trying to compare them is shortsighted. Calling Steam bad because it doesn't cater to you is even worse.

 

[Neyon]

Where do all the people who have slow steam downloads live? Here in the UK it reaches my bandwidth cap every time.

 

[Qvar]

Wow they sell me cheap games that I can bring with me to any other PC I'm currently playing at, yet they won't let me play offline. They want to suck my soul through the always on connection and I don't want that because reasons.

Now seriously guys, you hate Steam's DRM and you don't even know why.

 

[kasperbbs]

I don't really use steam much because their prices are too damn high, probably because they are confusing us with some other European country, so i have no reason to like Valve, well i did like portal and half life so theres that.

 

[Yan007]

As a rule of thumb, I generally despise DRM because it often complicates a process that should be so simple. On the other hand, Steam won me over: I just need to be logged in and I can run my games from a list, or redownload them easily if I need to. Steam makes DRM seamless to me in the same way I use my username and password to access my email account. It just works.

What I absolutely hate on Steam though are games with additional DRM on top of steam that you need to register on a website and so on. I find this absolutely unacceptable.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

Because seriously Steam *could NOT* be what it is today if they had taken a stance similar to gog.com. DRM was necessary during the early implementation of steam to get other publishers on board with the platform (noDRM is simply not something many publishers are even willing to do, even today) just look at GoG.com, it is mostly old-school games, not new releases.

Steam was pretty much the pioneer in the realm of online activation. Before Steam, disc-based checks were the norm. Steam introduced needing to go online to activate a game that you bought in the store.

The idea of having my entire video game collection be at Valve's mercy is offensive to me. I don't want to have to have their permission to play games that I paid for, regardless of whether they've promised to always give it to me or not. I don't want all of my games to be one unjust ban or technical glitch from being unplayable. And I hate having to go through the extra step of logging into Steam in order to launch a game.

Oh yeah, and Half-life 2 was overrated.

 

[ohnoitsabear]

Overall, I like Valve. I like Steam. It's convenient, I can get things for a good price, and everything downloads really quickly for me (although I know this isn't everybody's experience). I may like GoG and Humble Bundle a bit more, but that in no way makes Steam bad. I also really like most of the games Valve has made. I'm a huge fan of the Half-Life series, and Dota 2 is easily my most played game. I acknowledge that most of their games didn't originate within the company, but I really don't think that's all that important as long as the games are high quality.

That said, I do have problems with Valve. Their customer service is really poor, and the fact that there is no refund system for Steam is downright unacceptable. Also, Valve's communication with their community is really horrible, and has caused a lot of problems that could have been easily avoided (the whole Diretide fiasco could have been prevented if somebody had just said that they weren't doing Diretide this year, but were coming out with another big update instead), and the fact that it's been six years since the last Half-Life game and they are still refusing to even say if they're actually working on a sequel only serves to piss off their fans.

 

[Atmos Duality]

My biggest concern is Steam's market share. It's scary.

Then there is Steam itself. Regular prices aren't that competitive, it's usually either the same or cheaper here to get physical copies. Then there's also the really dodgy downloads. Usual downloads for me on most sites I get around 100-150KB/s. On Steam though it's 0-100KB/s with the occasional spike to 150. It barely supports slow connections as well. My old connection was going at ~10KB/s. I couldn't install any games from Steam, I couldn't download any updates(or those that would work would only do about half) and I couldn't buy anything from their store.

Server proximity and connection stability is a big issue.
I live close enough to a Steam hub that I can USUALLY download games+updates on my home connection (well, at least when my ISP hasn't decided to randomly switch shit off for whatever reason; the pricks). It takes a while, but eventually it finishes.

But every time I've tried to run Steam on a sketchy connection, even just for the startup validation, it shits the bed.

Sure, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. They take small time developers with great concepts and help them gain the success they deserve. But if they are just throwing resources behind these things, why not just act as a publisher? Instead they hire them so they can ultimately take all the credit for them and the success that comes with it.

This...puzzles me.

From the public's side of things, this doesn't really matter. Great games are getting made either way.

Also, far as I know most of those small developers work AT Valve not just FOR Valve.
They have more say into what goes into their games and it shows, compared to something like Maxis where even in design it's obvious how little autonomy they actually have.

Which is why it's really REALLY hard to get hired into Valve, and from what I've heard, it's a game developer's dream.
They have the privilege of being able to work from an incredibly stable financial position, with a AAA budget, but without having to appease the usual glut of shareholders and mercenary CEOs that have taken over the rest of AAA.

From the business side of things, being able to add "worked on a Valve game" to a resume' is boon, because for one, it's REALLY HARD to get hired in at Valve and their games are among the most critically acclaimed and well received in the business on average. It's a rare and strong pedigree.

If that isn't "success", I don't know what to tell you.

Really, I wouldn't worry too much about those "little guys" working at Valve. Nearly every example you listed were people who started out as hobbyists and game modders; doing what they did for free and because they enjoyed doing it.

(I played both DotA and Counterstrike in their infancy and interacted with their developers before they were hired on. They aren't gamer saints, but they definitely give more of a fuck about what they're doing than most AAA studios seem to today.)

 

[TehCookie]

I hate it because it's a piece of shit software that gets in between me and playing games that would work otherwise.

Lost you internet connection? I get booted out of the game I was playing and not just always online DRM, I got kicked out of Skyrim. Don't have a connection? Well I hope you remembered to set it to offline mode before hand, if not you won't be able to play any Steam games.

I finally patched a broken game so it worked. Well Steam didn't like it and fucked it up again. I got Vampire: The Masqurade Bloodlines. I knew it was a broken game buying it but I heard it was great and the patch fixed it. What I didn't know was I'd have to install it everytime I wanted to play because Steam would do something and it wasn't the same as how I left it.

Updating when I told it not to which breaks all my mods. Once again it was Skyrim. I heard news there was a huge patch coming so I disabled updates and wanted to wait for the mods to update so I could do it all at once and have it all work. Steam gave me a big fuck you and updated anyways breaking everything.

I have no idea what's wrong with DMC4 and my computer because if I start it through Steam I get a black screen and it crashes. I start the cracked version and it runs. Since it's not the game or my PC, Steam is being a piece of shit again and preventing me from playing games.

So having multiple bad experiences made me hate it but the fanboys who think that since the issue never happened to them it never happens made me loathe it.

 

[Tom_green_day]

When there are fanboys for somethign, there are fanhaters who hate it purely because the other people are unreasonably passionate about it and act as though it's the best thing ever and if you disagree you're wrong.

Ok so I was thinking about this:it is clear *why* we respect valve so much. They have revolutionized gaming on PC, they provide games at better prices in a very convenient manner. Steam is simply more convenient than any other option.

Maybe this comes under 'unreasonably passionate about it and act as though it's the best thing ever and if you disagree you're wrong'. It feels as though you're forcing your views at people and acting all superior about it.

 

[Eternal_Lament]

I wouldn't say I hate Valve, far from it, but I do have a few issues.

Steam: I'm not the biggest fan of Steam. I've bought some stuff, sure, but I think it is definitely not that amazing a service. For one thing, it always takes forever for things to download using the Steam client, where as files of the same size from other sources (such as GOG) are significantly faster. Also, as far as prices go, it is definitely cheaper for new games to buy on Steam, but I find that isn't so much the case as time goes on. Prices drop, sure, but I can usually get the same game at a much cheaper price from EB Games.

Monopoly: This is less a problem on Valve's part and more a problem with digital sales in general. I feel it's a bit dangerous to have only one major source for digital distribution. GOG is getting up there, but it definitely doesn't have the library or consumers necessary to compete with Steam. The problem, as I see it, is that when everyone just goes to the one source for digital sales, that place becomes too big to fail. It's why I try buying most of my PC games from GOG, because I can still play those games even if GOG goes belly up somehow. The same can't be said for Steam...it's not really buying games so much as it is renting indefinitely.

Games: Quite honestly, I think Valve is at best an okay developer. Their games are fine, but I would never really call them amazing. I feel that their quality is overhyped, in so much as that, with the exception of Portal 2, they are never games I see myself going back to. This is definitely more personal taste than anything else.

Fans: Quite honestly, I'm not so much a Valve hater so much as I am a hater of Valve fans. The extent that these fans praise and defend Valve crosses over the border of simply annoying into obnoxious. It's less a gripe against Valve and more against their fans, but the fans have easily tainted my view of Valve so much that I can't help but think of the fans when thinking of Valve. It isn't really a valid argument, and it isn't fair on my part, but if I'm being honest here, it's the fans that sour my experience the most.

 

[Waffle_Man]

While there are valid reasons to hate Steam--and by extension Valve--from a practical stand point, I tend to think that a lot of the hate comes from the fact that every thing about steam is a source of dependance. Valve has done a lot to earn the trust of a lot of gamers (though not all of them), but it's important to remember that, at any moment, valve could take away absolutely anything tied to a person's account. This is made worse by the fact that a increasingly large percentage of games released for the PC require the player to register and tie them to a steam account. Furthermore, while Valve has stated that it has a switch to magically disable their DRM in the unlikely but still very much possible event that they go under, but they have no obligation to do so.

Of course, this doesn't separated them all that much from other companies at this point. What does separate them is that they tend get far more praise than other companies, and a lot of people find that idea really uncomfortable. Hell, I once said to a friend that I'd never buy a game that forced me to be online while playing, but that didn't stop me from putting in thousands of hours into a Counte-strike: Source, a game that won't even launch in offline mode that has been largely torn apart by a number of valve's updates. Sure, it's pretty much just a multiplayer game, but the sentiment remains.

 

[loa]

One day, it has been decreed that no game shalt cometh without DRM and in such a climate of highly abusive DRM everyfuckingwhere, steam thrived by being the lesser of 2 evils since steam games usually don't come with another layer of potentially computer damaging DRM that burrows itself deeply in the guts of your system without asking like a tumor.
That's about all there is to it.

 

[mitchell271]

1. Anti-fan backlash (It has too many fans, therefore I must act as a counterweight)

2. Irrelevance (Console gamers couldn't give less of a rip about Steam, so the constant Steam praise is annoying)

2(episode 2). Inability to Count to Three

4. Unpopular EULA terms

5. Some believe the move to Steam Machines is questionable at best

6. They don't like the rabidness of many Valve fanboys, and dislike the company by proxy

7. Because reasons

This is more or less the most comprehensive list I can come up with.

1. So you're a contrarian?
2. Not entirely true. I loved Valve back when I gamed exclusively on my 360 because of the Orange Box and Portal 2
3. I'll give you that one
4. And this one
5. I think (don't quote me on this) that Valve is treating it as another platform for their services. They'd like you to get one, sure, but they're fine if you don't as well.
6. I understand that. Often, the community is indicative of the company, often it isn't. For example, Activision (Call of Duty) and Riot (League) respectively.

OT: I personally love Valve. I love their games, Steam and the fact that the forum Mods actually take individual opinions into account. One example is the disclaimer on the Fallout 3 page about Win7, that wording was suggested by a relatively new user. I don't think everything they make is pure gold though. Steam was crap for the first few years, they still need to work out a reliable return system and tidy up their EULA a bit. The good vastly outweighs the bad though.

 

[TheLastFeeder]

Well I don't hate Valve but I do hate steam. It has good sales sure but aside from that the program is horrendously bad. Slow to load, ugly UI, constant updates and inconsistent download speeds are my chief complaints with it. Also outside of the sales it's regular prices are absurd.

Absurd as opposed to what? Console prices? BWAhahahaha.

Yes. Absurd compared to console prices. I can pick up a console title for $69 dollars brand new while steam regularly charges 79-89 dollars (even $110 for certain titles).

You're connected to the EU I take it.
I have the opposite problem, I can get new games on steam for $60 or less, but the local retail price on console games starts between $115-$130. The prices on Steam and retail varies greatly between regions. In my case I save $55-$70 for every game I get on steam instead of retail.

 

[lacktheknack]

1. Anti-fan backlash (It has too many fans, therefore I must act as a counterweight)

2. Irrelevance (Console gamers couldn't give less of a rip about Steam, so the constant Steam praise is annoying)

2(episode 2). Inability to Count to Three

4. Unpopular EULA terms

5. Some believe the move to Steam Machines is questionable at best

6. They don't like the rabidness of many Valve fanboys, and dislike the company by proxy

7. Because reasons

This is more or less the most comprehensive list I can come up with.

1. So you're a contrarian?
2. Not entirely true. I loved Valve back when I gamed exclusively on my 360 because of the Orange Box and Portal 2
3. I'll give you that one
4. And this one
5. I think (don't quote me on this) that Valve is treating it as another platform for their services. They'd like you to get one, sure, but they're fine if you don't as well.
6. I understand that. Often, the community is indicative of the company, often it isn't. For example, Activision (Call of Duty) and Riot (League) respectively.

I don't actually agree with a single reason I stated. I just listed them because I'm a sort-of-fan with lots of self-awareness.

Just to clarify.

 

[Zipa]

Where do all the people who have slow steam downloads live? Here in the UK it reaches my bandwidth cap every time.

Depends on your DL speed, I have never seen Steam download faster than 10mbs and I am in the UK with a 60MB DL speed.

That said it is also down to other factors like your position to the nearest Steam server and internet routing and such most of which are out of Valves control.

 

[Battenberg]

2(episode 2). Inability to Count to Three

Well played, 50 internets for you.

OT: I was, until a couple of years ago, solely a console gamer and back then I was disinterested in Steam for exactly that reason. I didn't hate Steam but I did get fed up of people telling me how great it was and how I should be using it because otherwise my life would essentially be wasted (perhaps an exaggeration but you get the point). So I guess I didn't like Steam users as opposed to Steam, in the same way some people get fed up of repeatedly being told they should watch Breaking Bad and SEEM to hate it because they get annoyed at the people constantly telling them about it.

Of course I'm still predominantly a console gamer but I have started shuffling over to PC gaming almost entirely because of Steam so now it's fair to say I love it. That said I do still get why some people have beef with it so I tend not to make any particular point of defending it in big angry debates.