Vatican Voices Disapproval for Confession iPhone App

[thom_cat_]

So because the Vatican says it's no replacement, that makes it fact?

That's because in the Catholic Church, a priest has to dispense absolution from your sins and give you a penance in order for it to be a true reconciliation. An iPhone app can't do that. So while this may not actually be meant to take the place of the sacrament of reconciliation, it could confuse many Catholics into thinking it's a valid substitute when it's really not. That's the problem with it.

Only a true Frangulagilist can dispense Silappuputum upon the erignum of the people. An iPhone cannot do that.


It's a silly rite and practice that does nothing whatsoever. The iPhone does just as much good in my opinion.

That's why your not catholic. The fact is, that catholics believe in the rite, and all of it's accompanied rules. Their belief in it, gives the rite power, and they believe in doing it the right way. Truth is irrelevant when it is unknowable, therefore the perception is all that holds power. I now understand the opposition.

That guy admits to being a vocal anti-thiest, don't expect him to buy "they believe in X".

to put it bluntly, if he doesn't believe it,(for that reason) he's an idiot. Just because he doesn't believe in god/the afterlife ect., doesn't mean that others can't, and there is ample evidence in our world that perception is often more powerful than truth.

According to the average anti-theist (not an atheist, mind you), all religion should die, so I imagine he'll take less than kindly to that.

(As a Christian, I've learned how to duck and cover from anti-theists. Infuriating, but there's no way to win.)

Truth is truth, refusal to accept it is idiotic. "Willingly turning aside from the truth is treason to oneself."

I'm confused... what "truths" are you talking about?
also I thought you said truths were irrelevent... "Truth is irrelevant when it is unknowable, therefore the perception is all that holds power."
And there's plenty of reasons to turn away from God, the fact that there is no evidence to support it is one, and the fact that there is evidence to several theories that go against a lot of what some religions say is another.
Also, when did someone have to tell you why they don't believe? I don't have to justify why I don't believe in fairies or unicorns. You should be the one justifying why you believe in something without evidence. (Whoo! Antitheism!)

 

[Cakes]

Soon there will be apps for every religious function. Eucharist, meditation, circumcision...what an age we live in.

 

[Covarr]

I get the impression that the Vatican has misunderstood the point of this app. I'm sure they will retract their statement if they are informed that it is not meant as a replacement, but a helper, for the examination of conscience portion rather than the confession itself.

P.S. Thanks

 

[Fenreil]

Actually, all the app was meant to do to begin with is to help a person prepare for the Sacrament of Confession. It's roughly equivalent to a sheet of paper that outlines an examination of conscience (what sins did I commit, how serious were they, how many times did I commit them) and the process of the sacrament (what Father So-and-so says, what I am supposed to say at which points). The app doesn't celebrate the sacrament in place of a priest any more than a piece of paper with that information would.

It's supposed to be a refresher for people who have been away from confession for a while, and a tool for helping people make better confessions overall.

From the developers' website (http://www.littleiapps.com/overview.php): "Designed to be used in the confessional, this app is the perfect aid for every penitent."

So it's not a disapproval from the Vatican, but rather a clarification. What Fr. Lombardi says in no way contradicts what the developers of the app are doing or saying.

See, now that's what I was trying to figure out. The news post didn't help much in that regard. I mean, if it's just meant as a confession aid, then awesome. We already have printed versions, so there's nothing wrong with an electric one. Something intended to replace the actual sacrament through an iPhone would be completely ridiculous.

So because the Vatican says it's no replacement, that makes it fact?

Yes, but only if you're Catholic. In the Catholic church, anything the Vatican says is equivalent to the word of God.

Not quite. I'm a bit rusty, but if I remember correctly there's only one specific circumstance in which statements issued by the Pope are considered to be infallible.

 

[lacktheknack]

So because the Vatican says it's no replacement, that makes it fact?

That's because in the Catholic Church, a priest has to dispense absolution from your sins and give you a penance in order for it to be a true reconciliation. An iPhone app can't do that. So while this may not actually be meant to take the place of the sacrament of reconciliation, it could confuse many Catholics into thinking it's a valid substitute when it's really not. That's the problem with it.

Only a true Frangulagilist can dispense Silappuputum upon the erignum of the people. An iPhone cannot do that.


It's a silly rite and practice that does nothing whatsoever. The iPhone does just as much good in my opinion.

That's why your not catholic. The fact is, that catholics believe in the rite, and all of it's accompanied rules. Their belief in it, gives the rite power, and they believe in doing it the right way. Truth is irrelevant when it is unknowable, therefore the perception is all that holds power. I now understand the opposition.

That guy admits to being a vocal anti-thiest, don't expect him to buy "they believe in X".

to put it bluntly, if he doesn't believe it,(for that reason) he's an idiot. Just because he doesn't believe in god/the afterlife ect., doesn't mean that others can't, and there is ample evidence in our world that perception is often more powerful than truth.

According to the average anti-theist (not an atheist, mind you), all religion should die, so I imagine he'll take less than kindly to that.

(As a Christian, I've learned how to duck and cover from anti-theists. Infuriating, but there's no way to win.)

/amusement. Well that's some fun shorthand for intellectual cowardice. Why critically engage with arguments when we can stick our fingers in our ears and go "LA DA LA DEE LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" ?

/assumption.

I've learned to duck and cover for the simple reason that conversations go over like this, typically:

Me:
AT: <angry, snarky attack>
Me:
AT:
Me:
AT:
Me: "Not true."
AT: <ALL RELIGIONS MURDER, FUCK YOU>
Me: "And athiests don't, obviously."
AT: <ALL RELIGIONS MURDER, FUCK YOUR FAMILY>
Me: "Christian and Islamic charities? Ten Commandments?"
AT:
Me:

Now who's sticking their fingers in their ears?

Since I've found this to be accurate, why bother with the hassle? This isn't cowardice any more than actively trying to run away from a psycho with a flamethrower.

EDIT: I'm actually surprised that you would immediately think that I run away from intellectual debate by reading that. Think about it: They are an anti-theist, I'm a theist. If the theist needs to duck and cover from an anti-theist, most people would conclude it has something to do with the anti-theist being excessively hostile to the theist (read: The oceans run red with the anti-theist's rage). Which is the case.

Don't assume things because you think they'll give you a leg up. They usually won't.

 

[kasperbbs]

I'll keep my sins to myself ,thank you very much! I don't see the need to tell some creepy old guy how many times i sweared or lied this month so he could tell me to do a random number of hail marries or whatever else is there so i could for whatever reason feel better about myself.

 

[PunkyMcGee]

i agree with the Vatican on this one. Making confession an app is quite silly. it's a rite of repentance. Making it convenient sorta defeats the whole thing.

considering the imaginary friend they all seem to have is supposed to be everywhere, the fact that you need anything to confess your made up crimes is rather silly

The omnipresent nature of the religion is not what matters, it's the good old fashioned Christian guilt. If they can just excuses themselves to the other room, were's the atonement? Do they feel that confession is just an obstetrical in the way to salvation? Also, it's a sacrament, you cant just flatten some Wonder bread and call it communion.

 

[Fanfic_warper]

I'm not a catholic in good standing, and in fact have some problems with some of the teachings. I believe in the very base teachings though, and as such, one of them is the need to repent.

An app is a silly little tool.

This particular app to me is a little insulting as a catholic (or christian, I can never find the diff).

There's importance in going to a priest in person to confess and ask for forgiveness.

Never doubt the relief that comes from confessing to an actual person.

If you're lucky, and you do some searching, you can find a good priest to confess to without any fear.

An app to replace the value of confession is ridiculous.

 

[Dfskelleton]

A confession app isn't an outright awful idea, but I agree with the church here. It's obvious that an actual priest doesn't recieve all of these and bestow the sacrement of confession, so it must be a machine. A machine pretending to give a sacrement probably wouldn't be too appreciated by the church.

 

[PunkyMcGee]

catholic (or christian, I can never find the diff).

Christian is a catchall term for those who believe in Jesus. Catholic is those that listen to the Vatican. There are SO many different kinds of Christians.

 

[DevilWolf47]

I wonder if there really is a moral dilemma, or if the Catholics just want to make sure they keep their jobs.

 

[PunkyMcGee]

I wonder if there really is a moral dilemma, or if the Catholics just want to make sure they keep their jobs.

It's only part of the job, not the whole thing. In fact with the scandals they are having a very hard time recruiting new priests.

(Why the hell is an atheist defending Christianity so hard? What's up with me today?)

 

[Evil Alpaca]

The article title is misleading. The app does not advertise it being a replacement to a priest but rather a tool Catholics use to help ensure they regularly receive a sacrament of their religion. Its a calendar with a handy little guide, nothing more.

The Vatican is clarifying that the app can not replace a priest. Clarification is not the same as condemnation.

 

[Gralian]

I'm not religious. But i believe if one is genuinely sorry or repentant for whatever "sin" they committed, then surely that should all that count and whatever deity they happened to worship should surely forgive them for it. I think the desire to attone and make amends and a genuine feeling of repentance should be all that's necessary. I don't see why it should have to be validated by any mortal man, agent of God or not.

That said, this only goes to show that the Catholic Church isn't really in keeping with the times and current technologies. Though i suppose one could argue that religion is built around tradition, and you can't exactly communicate to the divine through a piece of software.

 

[lacktheknack]

(Why the hell is an atheist defending Christianity so hard? What's up with me today?)

Basic human decency?

Thanks, whyever you're doing it.

 

[Xanthious]

In a statement, Vatican spokesperson Federico Lombardi said that an iPhone app could never take the place of an actual priest

Well of course it could never replace an actual Catholic priest, there is no viable way an iPhone app could molest prepubescent boys . . . .

 

[teknoarcanist]

No, no, NO, the imachine can't cure you of your invisible inherent evilness by means of magical spoken ritual.

Only a salaried priest can do that.

Silly.

 

[PunkyMcGee]

(Why the hell is an atheist defending Christianity so hard? What's up with me today?)

Basic human decency?

Thanks, whyever you're doing it.

The actual reason is I was raised Catholic. I may not believe in the faith but, I know a lot of good people who do.