Video games: a form of art??

[Ludological Outlaw]

I'd like to refer any interested parties to my five-week old blog, Ludological Outlaw Scribblings, wherein I look at gaming from my fairly pretentious perspective, though I like to think I try to keep my tongue somewhere in the vicinity of my cheek most of the time.

http://ludologicaloutlaw.blogspot.com

Now I'm going to e-bow reverently and say in my best digital Dennis Hopper impersonation: "I'm just a little man, a little man, some of these other folks talking, these are big men, great men."

 

[Psaakyrn [deprecated]]

I don't think anyone gets it. Video games has the potential to be art, just as a scribble on a piece of canvas does, but only if it is created as such. Take an example. Some TV programs are artistic. News programs generally aren't. Literature can be art. That exam paper isn't. Both are the exact same medium, BUT are art depending on how it's used.

I think people are too distracted by graphics for video games to progress as art. The most important aspect of a game is generally NOT it's graphics, but it's interactions. In my opinion, Killer 7 uses an art style, but isn't art (at least, not in my point of view, but then again, art critiques can disagree. But if another example is necessary, you can use Windwaker instead), however Ico is rendered like any other 3D game, but is distinctively made as an art piece.

 

[Beery]

Anyone who has played Omikron or Knights of the Old Republic knows that video games can be art. These games are infused with an atmosphere that takes the game beyond a merely engrossing time sink.

 

[Arbre]

Anyone who has played Omikron or Knights of the Old Republic knows that video games can be art. These games are infused with an atmosphere that takes the game beyond a merely engrossing time sink.

Yes, and this actually applies to any game that draws you in.
Of course, "art =! boom boom bang bang" in many minds, but really, those topics are almost worthless, unless they concern governmental credits based on cultural and artistic criteria, and where the industry has to argue that it can be art.
But, well, anything can become art, from the moment we want to say it is so.

 

[Morbus]

I had something to say about this in my site... It's a small article that is indirectly related to the issue here.

http://megascore.biz/?p=23

Game design. Simply game design. That's what games are about, and that is the Art in games. It's not programming, it's not painting, modeling... It's all about game design.

As for Oblivion, it sucks. KotOR sucks a lot less, but still sucks. The game design in them is poor...

 

[Arbre]

Kotor had a couple of major flaws: tight and few levels.
A very discutable AI.
But besides this, I found the level, character, ship and creature design very good.

 

[arigomi]

I find it problematic trying to define videogames as art because art is in the eye of the beholder. A person will consider something as art only if it has value according to his or her standards. If you intend to convince a detractor like Roger Ebert, you will need to showcase the value of videogames that even he could relate to.

 

[Arbre]

Yes, it's all subjective, end of discussion.

 

[Morbus]

Yes, it's all subjective, end of discussion.

Well, I don't think it is subjective at all. Remember: behind all subjectivity, there is always objectivity.

I thus officially restart the discussion. X)

 

[Dom Camus]

Remember: behind all subjectivity, there is always objectivity.

That's just your opinion. ;-)

Anyway, if Duchamp can turn a urinal into art then as far as I'm concerned there's nothing left to debate in the case of games.

 

[Morbus]

Remember: behind all subjectivity, there is always objectivity.

That's just your opinion. ;-)

Hum... You know... it's sometimes important to know opinions from facts...

Anyway, if Duchamp can turn a urinal into art then as far as I'm concerned there's nothing left to debate in the case of games.

Ahah :lol: I guess.

 

[Jeroen Stout]

Anyway, if Duchamp can turn a urinal into art then as far as I'm concerned there's nothing left to debate in the case of games.

You need to look at the reason behind making a urinal into art. It's all part of avant-garde. It's a bit weird to dismiss a urinal whilst the whole point is that it's a uniral seen as art.

As for games as art... I think the definition of 'game' is too broad. A lot of art that could be made is 'interactive digital something something', there isn't a term for it just yet. The genre of film is pretty closed down, games are more like theatre in that regard. You could even just call 'the new genre' digital theatre.

 

[Arbre]

Anyway, if Duchamp can turn a urinal into art then as far as I'm concerned there's nothing left to debate in the case of games.

You need to look at the reason behind making a urinal into art. It's all part of avant-garde. It's a bit weird to dismiss a urinal whilst the whole point is that it's a uniral seen as art.

It's more about pointing out than you came make anything become art from the moment you say so, really.
Don's example is just to show how something as trivial and mass produced as an urinal becomes art.

 

[Jeroen Stout]

Anyway, if Duchamp can turn a urinal into art then as far as I'm concerned there's nothing left to debate in the case of games.

You need to look at the reason behind making a urinal into art. It's all part of avant-garde. It's a bit weird to dismiss a urinal whilst the whole point is that it's a uniral seen as art.

It's more about pointing out than you came make anything become art from the moment you say so, really.
Don's example is just to show how something as trivial and mass produced as an urinal becomes art.

Though you couldn't turn a urinal into art right now, unless you'd be smart about it and stacked 10 together and called it "Owning Duchamp" and make it a symbol of post-modernism.

...yeah, I get the point now

 

[Still Lee]

There's an excellent show that goes into detail about art in gaming.

It's called, well.. The Art in Gaming. I really think it's informative and interesting, plus it covers a wide variety of games, some of which I think are underappreciated classics.

Episodes:
Bionic Commando [http://one.revver.com/watch/367715]
Vigilante 8 [http://one.revver.com/watch/346360]
Rygar (PS2) [http://one.revver.com/watch/321832]

 

[penischucker]

True art? Or the Virgin Mary made out of Poo, art?
Because I believe it can both.

True Art: Silent Hill, ICO, FF7, Alter Ego

Poo Art: Manhunt and other games that are just made to shock people and scream "look at me!" like a five-year old with ADHD.

 

[Easykill]

In my opinion theres high art and new art. High art are the masterpieces of the past and thier emulators but I find them kinda boring, I mean they were good for their time but now they just don't appeal to most people that much. Videogames do NOT fit in this category. No videogames fit in this category.
But new art feels more... open.
Videogames could fit in there.

 

[SatansBestBuddy]

Okay, here's how to end this arguement.

Give those critics Portal, and force them to play to the end credits.

Games are art, deal with it, whinners.