Videogame Theater: Donkey Kong vs Mario: A Barrel of Hope

Feb 13, 2008
19,430
0
0
I can take the criticism if you can take the fact that I disagree with it.
So the Director is disagreeing with his target audience? Dude, you ARE Uwe Boll.

Your thesis (and that of a few others) is that if a handful of anonymous message board dwellers say VGT sucks, then I should automatically agree, roll over, and apologize.
Not really, but if most of the posters say VGT sucks, then you're failing to hit your core demographic. ZP/De-Rez still suck sometimes, but then they come back and nail the core.

This hasn't even made me smile yet.

*sigh*
 

VGT Scott Chernoff

New member
May 27, 2008
19
0
0
Haha root... I guess I've let myself stumble into the trap of responding to individual attacks and I shouldn't be so defensive. Still not sure why you would think anyone would suddenly stop believing in their own work just because of some negative comments on a message board, but like I said, I'll stop getting into the back-and-forth and just answer questions and enjoy you guys bashing away.

Thanks, Kross & Rayavaro for speaking up, and thanks everyone else for your... um... input. Can't wait to read more!
 

HobbesMkii

Hold Me Closer Tony Danza
Jun 7, 2008
856
0
0
You should get a star-rating system put in so the tens of thousands of unspoken for, non-members (as well as those who voice their opinion) can let their voices be heard through the process of voting on the quality of the video.
 
Feb 13, 2008
19,430
0
0
VGT Scott Chernoff said:
Still not sure why you would think anyone would suddenly stop believing in their own work just because of some negative comments on a message board, but like I said, I'll stop getting into the back-and-forth and just answer questions and enjoy you guys bashing away.
Not what I said. Believe me that I'm a writer and it's one of the toughest lessons that you HAVE to listen to what your public think, blend it into your own vision and go from there. Whilst there's not been a great deal of constructive criticism, take a quick look at Melaisis's point where he believes there are overly long pauses. There's a positive hint to keep it short and snappy to keep the ball rolling, despite you maybe feeling that it's a emotional moment. Work with you audience instead of in spite of them.

Hell, do a mailbag showdown with one of the puppets; that'll get you attention. We're not just bitching, it's just the last two haven't been funny to us.
 

CanadianWolverine

New member
Feb 1, 2008
432
0
0
I really don't understand how you could say my humble opinion was wrong, that smacks of just a little too much hubris.

Want it a little more constructive? Well, the production values are high, that's cool, nice puppetry combined with blue screen.

Where it breaks down as I said before is the humor is coming off at best groan worthy and at worst cruel. Maybe that is the point, make cutesy video game characters of old look decrepit in a behind the scenes kind of way.

What I would do differently if I was involved with the writing any would be to increase the amount of inside jokes that reference other parts in silly ways, which saw used with the Pac Man kid clone, Donkey Kong Jr, and Luigi. Such as, have a future version of Mario, Donkey Kong, Peach, etc show up to comedic effect and objects in the game world could be used in silly ways. The needle in the arm and the gun to the head just seem to break with what could be silly and instead come off as revoltingly dark. The best part for me were things like the Rampage screens, references to other games tying in silly ways, and the seeing of the old level in puppet form.

So I ask again, a little differently, was I supposed to find this funny or tragic? One doesn't succeed and the other does, so it would be interesting if this was meant to be a tragedy and my expectations coming into it were at odds with that.
 

Dante_Alucard

New member
May 16, 2008
309
0
0
HalfShadow said:
Squishface Mcgloop said:
Oh, that's a good point. He's in the credits for a few crank yankers episodes.
Not exactly something to be proud of: 'Hey, I make the puppets for a show where they make harrassing phone calls to total strangers who don't deserve it'.
Hey I don't think they desirve that kind of abuse bringing up old work like that. I think I saw that show once. I'm almost positive it was really good for the 1.5 seasons it was on tv. I'm sure it had nothing to do with them riding jimmy Kimmels coat tails or anything like that or that they had more special guest than a Jerry's Kid Telethon. No i'm sure it was awsome for that 12:00am time slot they had on monday nights after the Girls gone wild infomercial. Nofor real though it was great(AS I SHAKE MY HEAD NO)
 

Logie--bear

TARDIS Stalker
Feb 2, 2008
150
0
0
Rayavaro said:
I'm pretty sure most of the guys here are 25 or over. This kind of comedy I think is more built towards the younger crowd like me which has as of yet not crossed that line. I think it's funny how people find humor in ZP and not this. Sure they are different genres of comedy, but all together they both fall under the same umbrella which this all focus towards and that's VIDEO GAMES if you didn't know already. So I think it is unfounded when most of the people come on here and bash this kind of video when they are not the ones it's being targeted too. I found it funny, but what does that say about me? I like this kind of stuff!
I'm 16. And I enjoyed Crank Yankers. This isn't anywhere near my cup of tea.
 

KamikazeSailor

New member
Jun 10, 2008
145
0
0
Well, I thought Crank Yankers had some pretty dynamic moments and it was a great idea for a show... this Video Game Theatre doesn't exactly pull me in, I mean even if you think it's funny... it's not laugh-out-loud funny, and it's not "Own the complete box set on DVD for $300" funny... it's just... there...

Maybe it'll get better over time
 

Melaisis

New member
Dec 9, 2007
1,014
0
0
A Few People said:
Target audience!
Creator said:
anonymous message board users
Ouch.

I would initially go about this as I did with De-Rez; saying that it is great that The Escapist is taking a huge new direction in attempting to appeal to the newcomers and a more... open audience. That's great, and I'm sure its doing wonders for ad revenue. However, it is not keeping the community happy and may I remind you it is the likes of the community [http://3scapism.net] that help carve the forum into something special. It is not the fact that these 'thousands of other viewers' who enjoy the likes of VGT don't even bother to post productive content themselves, or read the written features that bothers me; but rather that they just aren't us. Sure, there may be tonnes of kids out there which really eat this sort of stuff up, but it is only us forum frequenters (what? 'Anonymous message board users'? Yeah, thanks for that) which are the only ones willing to put time and effort into giving video-makers half-decent feedback. Just because viewcounts are high, it doesn't mean that people are enjoying it, after all; especially if we consider the so-called 'vocal 'minority''.

Heck, I love this concept and format, but I hate to see the way it is pulled off. How do you ever expect to get better at making videos if you consistently play King of Incompetence and only listen to the praise?

That's not rhetorical; I'm genuinely curious.
 

Mogsam

New member
Jun 4, 2008
9
0
0
....Wow. That was... interesting? I saw puppets (+), I saw puppets that look like the characters they are supposed to be (+)... then it went wrong. It just lacked jokes, well i'm fairly sure it made some but i'll be damned if i could find them. Just calling Donkey Kong a stupid ape is not really a joke. The "jokes" need to be punchier (Urealms actually makes me laugh out loud since its believable, Mario being racist isn't funny. Is that an American thing to focus on racism? I have quite a few American friends who use it in comedy alot) It could also do with being shorter, if your jokes are repeatative then the show needs to be shorter.
 

VGT Scott Chernoff

New member
May 27, 2008
19
0
0
CanadianWolverine said:
I really don't understand how you could say my humble opinion was wrong, that smacks of just a little too much hubris.
CanadianWolverine said:
So I ask again, a little differently, was I supposed to find this funny or tragic? One doesn't succeed and the other does, so it would be interesting if this was meant to be a tragedy and my expectations coming into it were at odds with that.
Ha, well Wolverine, the word "wrong" was meant a bit more playfully than it's been taken, but I'd agree that you and I (most of us here, probably) are both guilty of a little too much hubris in our posts. I also agree it's silly of me to get into defending VGT - it's not my intent to argue with anyone here. I must admit I've been a bit taken aback by some of the hostility unleashed in here. I guess the videogame community is a bit more rough-and-tumble than the puppet world.

I do hear the negative criticism and take it in, but I think one of the more insightful things someone said as far as explaining the reaction here was Squishface saying something like, "try to go for the videogame audience, not the comedy audience," and indeed I'm not missing that most of the things people in this forum seem to like are the little videogame in-jokes and references. The thing is that VGT is a comedy show that is not meant to solely appeal to hardcore videogame fans - now, whether or not you think we succeeded is another matter, but the show is not aimed only at members of this forum. That is not meant as a slight, Melaisis, it's just the way it is.

Of course, I want everyone to like the show - it's not fun to read some of the more mean-spirited attacks. I'm aware that you guys represent a segment of the audience, and it's valuable to me to learn how this part of the audience likes (or doesn't like) the show and why. I can respect your opinions, but if you actually made a show, I wouldn't expect you to change your opinion on it just because I stated mine. I do listen to them all, and from now on I'm going to try to respond less, because personally I feel the show speaks well for itself and I'm still extremely proud of it, and thrilled that Russ and the folks at the Escapist wanted it on the site. I wish the forum community liked it as we do, but as VGT continues, I hope you all continue to watch and maybe you will like what you see. I appreciate the more constructive criticism I can find in this forum, but I need to stop responding to individual arguments because it makes me look and feel silly.

I'm still here though and happy to answer questions, like the one quoted above. Answer: this episode is meant to be both a comedy and a tragedy. Sort of like this thread!
 

Mogsam

New member
Jun 4, 2008
9
0
0
VGT Scott Chernoff said:
I do hear the negative criticism and take it in, but I think one of the more insightful things someone said as far as explaining the reaction here was Squishface saying something like, "try to go for the videogame audience, not the comedy audience," and indeed I'm not missing that most of the things people in this forum seem to like are the little videogame in-jokes and references. The thing is that VGT is a comedy show that is not meant to solely appeal to hardcore videogame fans - now, whether or not you think we succeeded is another matter, but the show is not aimed only at members of this forum.
Thats not neccessarily true at all. Two of the most popular segments of the Escapist involve very little in the way of in-jokes and references. For example, I've played videogames with some of the cast of De Rez and they know next to nothing about videogames. They just pick something funny about a specific game and expand upon it. However the characters in that Mario game had their "personalities" if you would perverted into your requirements, thus they aren't funny, if you want to do parody you can't deviate. It'd be like plagerising an essay on literature but using a sociology paper, pointless and confusing to those who read it.
 

Susan Arendt

Nerd Queen
Jan 9, 2007
7,222
0
0
VGT Scott Chernoff said:
Squishface Mcgloop said:
Although I have to say I loved seeing DK.JR play the Atari 2600.
Actually, he was using a 2600 joystick but the game was a Vectrex. (Anyone remember Vectrex?) Glad you liked it.
Used to have one, actually. Loved that damn thing.
 

Fire Daemon

Quoth the Daemon
Dec 18, 2007
3,204
0
0
Kross said:
Whatever your opinions on the humor (and I'm sure they are still feeling the audience out), the puppeteering and production quality were great. Very reminiscent of Crank Yankers, which had puppets from the same guy (BJ Guyer), and I remember as being hilarious.

I think once they find their target for the jokes, this series will be top notch.
I'm with Kross because he has a cool name and because everyone said that De Rez was horrible and now they can't get enough of it. Things get better around here, they never get worse so hold some optimism for crying out loud.
 

Copter400

New member
Sep 14, 2007
1,813
0
0
Melaisis said:
Heck, I love this concept and format, but I hate to see the way it is pulled off. How do you ever expect to get better at making videos if you consistently play King of Incompetence and only listen to the praise?

That's not rhetorical; I'm genuinely curious.
Sing it, sister!

You guys have the puppeting down to an art form. However, I caught myself fast-forwarding to see if anything funny would happen.