Villains who had a point

[Auron225]

Can you think of any villains who either;

- had a point
- were justified in some way
- you could empathize with

I'm not considering villains who were the protagonist, like Megamind, Gru (Despicable Me), or Maleficent (the live-action one).

They can be from video games, movies, anime, TV, books, anything. The only one I can think of currently is Nox from Wakfu;

Spoiler

Mass genocide, did monstrous things, but it was all for the purpose of rewinding time back to when his family were alive - which would have undone every villainous act he'd committed.

There is a purpose to this (if people are curious then I can share why)

 

[Saelune]

Maybe they fixed it later, but atleast in the first two episodes of Inhumans, I was almost completely rooting for Ramsey Bolton. (I dont remember his character's name).

A bit ruthless in his methods, but the royal family were basically enslaving much of the population and didnt seem to care.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Can you think of any villains who either;

The only one I can think of currently is Nox from Wakfu;

Spoiler

Mass genocide, did monstrous things, but it was all for the purpose of rewinding time back to when his family were alive - which would have undone every villainous act he'd committed.

Good to know someone else on here has watched that series. His origin was tragic especially if you had watched his OVA.

OT-I suppose out of the Marvel films-

Ulton
Admit it, it will be hard to explained to a sentient AI the redeeming quality of mankind given to our histories.

Loki
Sure I don't like him at the start but by the time I watched Ragnarok, I get he just wanted some recognitions eventhought his method were trollish.

Vulture
He's pretty much a middle class working man before he turn the life of crime.

 

[Kwak]

Richmond Valentine
He is extremely concerned with global warming, and after several failed environmental projects, comes to the conclusion that mankind is both the cause and the problem. Valentine begins to distribute free SIM cards offering unlimited phone and internet coverage worldwide, planning to use them to transmit a neurological wave that triggers aggression and switches off inhibitors in the brain, which will result in mass killing worldwide and thus reduce the global population.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

The Machine in A Machine For Pigs. Ultimately what it wanted to do was prevent the deaths of Mandus' sons, World War 1, World War 2, and basically everything after 1945.
I mean just look at the list of events the Machine was trying to prevent from happening:
The First and Second World Wars, bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Cambodian Genocide, the death of Mandus' sons (two brothers who would fall in the war), the Russian Revolution and the Stalinist regime in Russia, the Ukraine Famine ("starved the masses into faith"), the Holocaust, etc...

That's not an inherently evil goal! Just so happens the Machine thought the best way to achieve this was through human bacon, which was just dumb. Regular bacon is way cheaper and easier to get.

 

[ReservoirAngel]

My main one is the entire Templar order from the Assassin's Creed series.

They were painted as villains and irredeemably so basically up until Rogue which finally gave you a proper glimpse of what the Templar Order is like from the inside and it actually sort of makes a lot of sense. They only really appear as the villains because the Assassins paint them as monsters and that's who we, the player, see the events through the eyes of. It's an ideological battle where until Rogue we only saw one side of the ideology presented in any way positively.

When exposed to seeing the other side the argument could very easily be made that, somewhat brutal or dickish methods aside, the Templar ideology is a logical one. What is painted by the Assassins as a totalitarian mindset bent on total domination of those they view as lesser than themselves is actually just the rather obvious idea that for human society to reach it's full potential it needs strong guiding hands with true vision to help it along as left their own devices most people will contently sit exactly where they are forever. They need someone to show them a better path for themselves, even if they may not want to see it, because without it they will continue to do nothing but invent reasons to spend time destroying one another over petty quarrels and achieving nothing of any value.

And is that really so terrible? Considering that the Assassins' pro-freedom manifesto is basically lawless anarchy covered by vague sentiment of tolerance and understanding, and that they murder with reckless abandon to achieve it, I'd say the Templar side of the debate sounds just as credible if you look at things objectively.

Neither side is perfect, neither side is truly evil. But one is painted as the villains when you could easily see the argument from their side and agree with it. That's why I've always chosen to side with the Templars at the end of Rogue and why it's among my favourite games in the series.

 

[Catnip1024]

The bear in the Revenant. I mean, who wouldn't want to beat the shit out of Leonardo Di Caprio. Just look at the guy. He has a face that says "punch me"...

The other boy from the Karate Kid (ditto with the remade version), to bring out one of the old classics.

Pretty much any of the poor people that get beaten up by Batman. Seriously, fuck Batman.

 

[Poetic Nova]

The Helghast in the Killzone series.

They are people all exiled from Vekta, forcefully relocated to a planet with harsh conditions: Helghan.
I can't blame them for adapting, and wanting to take over Vekta.
And even less so after:

Spoiler

The ISA blows up Helghan in the end of Killzone 3

It goes alot more into detail in the games. The ISA may seem to be depicte as the good guys, but they are definetly at fault.

 

[Saelune]

The bear in the Revenant. I mean, who wouldn't want to beat the shit out of Leonardo Di Caprio. Just look at the guy. He has a face that says "punch me"...

Spoiler

The other boy from the Karate Kid (ditto with the remade version), to bring out one of the old classics.

Spoiler

Pretty much any of the poor people that get beaten up by Batman. Seriously, fuck Batman.

Spoiler

 

[CrazyGirl17]

Magneto, obviously. He does have a point that mutants are being oppressed by the jerkass humans... though he tends to go a bit too far...

 

[Redryhno]

Magneto, obviously. He does have a point that mutants are being oppressed by the jerkass humans... though he tends to go a bit too far...

Except the Jerkass humans are honestly pretty right. We already put people on lists who buy guns that can be modified from semi-automatic to full-automatic as it is. It's not that much different than some girl that can literally suck the life out of people with a touch or more than a few guys that have been around for HUNDREDS of years because they can't be killed and have been involved in various historical events because of it.

Sentinels are a natural progression in that way. You get a better cage to house a more dangerous individual. The only reason they're down and out villains are because of how far the government and various private endeavors go to get rid of, honestly, some of the most dangerous people on the planet, even if they aren't trying to be so intentionally. Like, there are many telepath stories in X-Men of kids growing up in essentially a fantasy world of lollypops and ice cream while the people around them are living a waking nightmare. Kilgrave in Jones touched on this before it decided to turn back into the Jessica "I only care about my own thoughts, ideas, fears, and farts" Jones show. Hell, Daken, however poorly or not you feel he's written, is one of the most dangerous street-level mutants in the universe.

Humans have very good reasons to fear Mutants in the Marvel universe, very similarly as you would seeing a guy seriously stockpile guns, building razor-wire-topped fences, and dumping truckloads of canned goods in the shed under the house.

 

[Cicada 5]

The Elite in Superman vs The Elite.

Zemo in Civil War

 

[BrawlMan]

Senator Armstrong. Those who have played the game already know about the speech.

But that might makes right attitude wouldn't help America. In fact, it would make things worse for America in the long run. Not to mention that it's too impractical.

In Legend of Korra Amon, Unilock, Zaheer, and Kuvira all had points but they took things way too far. In order: equality, spiritual connection, freedom, and unity.

The hyenas in The Lion King. At the end of the day all they wanted was some food. Scary thing is when you think about it the lions were hoarding all the food from other predators. As much as Scar was an opportunistic scumbag, the hyenas did get a raw deal.

Shinobu Sensui from Yu Yu Hakusho. The part about opening the portals to demon and human world, not so much the whole kill all of Humanity.

 

[Casual Shinji]

What villain doesn't have a point?

Even Hans Gruber has a point in that he wants a shitton of money. I mean, I can understand wanting to be rich. I wouldn't go around killing people to do it, but I can understand it.

The few villains I can think of that don't have a point are Biff from Back to the Future and the Emperor from Star Wars. Their main goal is simply to be big assholes.

 

[Urgh76]

Any good villain should have this kind of trait, where you can emphasize with why their position sounds like a good idea.

I've been extremely conflicted over Griffith from Berserk.

Spoiler: Overview

Berserk is a world filled with war and all the fun things that go along with it. Griffith lead a group called the Band of the Hawk that our main character Guts and others have a huge bond with. Griffith's main goal is to get a kingdom for himself. Along the way war happens as war happens, and a ton of people fall on Griffith's behalf.

Spoiler: Including people like younger soldiers.

Shit happens, Griffith is captured. After a full year they're able to go and get him back, but he's been tortured severely all this while. His tongue was removed, the tendons in his arms and legs were cut so he could never walk again on his own, and other things.

Spoiler: He's a shell of what he was before. (Graphic page inside)

As they're bringing Griffith back to the rest of the gang, stuff happens and an item in the world called a Behelit activates, enveloping everyone in this other dimension. It resounded with Griffith, and demonic beings tell him that his body could be reborn as an incredible power. He has to make a sacrifice however, and that sacrifice is the rest of his men, the entire Band of the Hawk.

He agrees, and the entire band except for two people thanks to an intervention are mercilessly slaughtered. Now this is terrible, but he'd reasoned it out this way:

Griffith was already standing on a mountain of corpses to reach his dream. The entire time he'd been fighting to achieve his dream kingdom, an immeasurable amount of his friends and allies had laid down their life in order to help him reach it. All of those sacrifices and effort would seem like they'd have gone to waste if he didn't accept. That or he might have thought "What's a few more sacrifices?" Everyone technically already lived for the sake of that dream, so if their lives served to further it, then...?

He's done a ton of bad shit in causing suffering to literally all of his friends until he was reborn. After his rebirth though, I've seen nothing but 'good deeds' from him so far. So whether or not those sacrifices were inexcusable is the main question.

Griffith is a good villain.

 

[Squilookle]

The big bad from Watchmen, definitely.

But also these guys, as we've never been able to see them before or since:

 

[BrawlMan]

What villain doesn't have a point?

Even Hans Gruber has a point in that he wants a shitton of money. I mean, I can understand wanting to be rich. I wouldn't go around killing people to do it, but I can understand it.

The few villains I can think of that don't have a point are Biff from Back to the Future and the Emperor from Star Wars. Their main goal is simply to be big assholes.

Here is my list of villains that don't have a point or think they have a point:


Hao Asakura. No matter which version you look at he's nothing more than a spoiled brat who wants the world for himself. He preaches about protecting Nature, but in the end of the day, he's just another asshole so who wants petty revenge and is willing to sacrifice others and even his own followers to get what he wants. The anime at least calls out on his bulllshit, unlike the manga.

Thomas Gabriel (Die Hard 4). So he did kind of have a point with America's security, but similar to the above he was just another egotistical jackass who thought he deserved more just because bad shit happened to him.

All the villains from the Lethal Weapon movies. You can maybe make a case for the first movie and the fourth movie, but that's about it.

The Weyland-Yutani Corporation in general. While we are at it, I'll throw in the Umbrella Corporation and Mobius (Evil Within) too.

All of the villains from Devil May Cry series. Well Vergil's motive is understandable, but it is not something you're supposed to agree with.

Bison, Geese Howard, Wolfgang Krauser, and Rugal.

Skullmageddon

Ragyo and Nui Harime

I know there is more, but that is why I can think of at the top of my head.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

What villain doesn't have a point?

A good villain? Like, to have a truly terrifying villain you really don't want to be able to identify with them, or understand them, or relate with them.
A guy who just goes around stealing money, because he wants money, when you also want money, isn't really a villain. Even if he kills people, he's just a dick. Just willing to push a little more.

A truly great villain would be like a Lovecraftian horror or a hell daemon. Something that skins babies alive, and eats people whole, and enslaves entire worlds, boiling entire races alive at once, blasts planets from the skies. Something evil you couldn't possibly comprehend, let alone go 'Well to be fair, those babies were crying too much'

Like a 40k Bloodthirster will always make a better villain than any Marvel anti-hero or Anime kinda emo prince, because what a Bloodthirster does is truly villainous, not just the wrong thing does for the right reasons or the right thing done wrongly.