Was Jak II the biggest example of "Corporate edge"?

[themistermanguy]

As Sony Computer Entertainment's publishing deal with Universal Interactive Studios for the Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon series were about to expire, Crash Developer Naughty Dog needed to come up with a replacement IP for the PlayStation's successor, the PlayStation 2. This led to Jak & Daxter: The Precursor Legacy, which was Sony's big Holiday title of 2001, and like Crash was a smash hit. The game started out as your typical E-rated Platformer, filled with bright colors, unique enemies, and a sense of child-like adventurous whimsy. Many fans were excited to see what the next installment would be like... And it would be none of those things.

Jak II is probably the biggest tonal shift ever for a video game series, and I'm willing to bet the reactions to it were bewildering. "Wait, Jak is talking now?", "WOAH Swearing!?", "GUNS!?", "Car Jacking!?", "What the Hell is this!!?". According to Naughty Dog, the reason for the bizarre shift in tone was because gamers were getting older and wanted more mature and violent games. That meant their little open-world E-Rated platformer, had to become a T-rated, GTA-lite. Look, it's not that Jak II or III are bad games, far from it, but Jak II doesn't feel like it was made the way it was because somebody at Naughty Dog had a radical idea for the Jak & Daxter universe, it felt like it was made because the marketing team at Sony told them that Open World, Vehicle jacking was really hot right now and wanted to capitalize on that. A lot of people like Jak II and I can see why, it's still a very polished and well designed platformer even with the "Edge". But the darker tone and GTA elements always felt like a cynical, corporate cash-grab, rather than a genuine creative direction to me. Gamers were older than before sure, but they still like bright, colorful platformers as much as kids do.

TBH, I felt Insomniac handled the tone shifting with their next series, Ratchet & Clank better than ND did with Jak. Ratchet's edgier and more violent than Spyro, but it still has a sense of colorful whimsy and self-awareness to it. It didn't have to try and rub its edge in your face like Jak II did.

Naughty Dog has made some fantastic games since then, but the the darkening of Jak & Daxter always felt like an unnecessary decision IMO.

 

[Chimpzy]

Here comes a new challenger!

 

[themistermanguy]

Here comes a new challenger!

OW THE EDGE!

 

[BrawlMan]

Here's a runner up worst examples:

Bomber Man Act Zero:

At least Jak II was actually fun and sold well.

 

[Samtemdo8]

Ahem:

 

[Casual Shinji]

Here's a runner up:

Yeah, this was way worse. Jak II got edgier, but more in a Dreamworks/post-renaissance Disney kinda way; pretty blantant, but inoffensive. They gave Jak a skateboard and goatee, that was about it.

Warrior Within was practically sniffing its own bloodcrusted anus with how edgy it thought it was. The Prince roaring during combat, just... ugh. And that fucking secondary villain, Jesus Christ. Made God of War 1 feel like a downright gentleman by comparison, despite this game obviously being a reaction to its popularity.

 

[BrawlMan]

Ahem:

Conker was at least self aware and funny, unlike Warrior Within and Act Zero. Still had a dark ending, though Conker mainly brought that on himself. Conker had one kiddie game on GBC barely anyone played or remembered.

 

[BrawlMan]

Made God of War 1 feel like a downright gentleman by comparison, despite this game obviously being a reaction to its popularity.

My brother and I were so confused by the tone of this game when first picking it up on PS2. He kinda forced himself to like it, but I could not stand this game. Two Thrones fixed the tragedy that was Warrior Within. Nothing beats Sands of Time. SoT is still the best of the 3D PoP games.

 

[Samtemdo8]

Conker was at least self aware and funny, unlike Warrior Within and Act Zero. Still had a dark ending, though Conker mainly brought that on himself. Conker had one kiddie game on GBC barely anyone played or remembered.

But the point is, Conker originally was intended to be another kid's game like Banjo and Mario.

I mean for fuck's sake Conker was a playable character in Diddy Kong Racing. And this was before they made him into the foul mouthed drunk in his first game.

 

[Samtemdo8]

Yeah, this was way worse. Jak II got edgier, but more in a Dreamworks/post-renaissance Disney kinda way; pretty blantant, but inoffensive. They gave Jak a skateboard and goatee, that was about it.

Warrior Within was practically sniffing its own bloodcrusted anus with how edgy it thought it was. The Prince roaring during combat, just... ugh. And that fucking secondary villain, Jesus Christ. Made God of War 1 feel like a downright gentleman by comparison, despite this game obviously being a reaction to its popularity.

And despite that, I still like Warrior Within because it just played way better then Sands of Time.

Sands of Time was just obscenely repetitive. Combat boils down to leaping over enemies to jump slice them in the back.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

My brother and I were so confused by the tone of this game when first picking it up on PS2. He kinda forced himself to like it, but I could not stand this game. Two Thrones fixed the tragedy that was Warrior Within. Nothing beats Sands of Time. SoT is still the best of the 3D PoP games.

I actually feel Warrior Within had by far the best overall gameplay of the trilogy, the combat and platforming were the best. It totally wasn't the best game obviously.

 

[Chimpzy]

Ahem:

It's not an example of corporate edge. Yes, it was originally planned as a kidfriendly rare collect-a-thon platformer like Banjo, but the idea to rework the game into a raunchy and violent one came from its director and lead designer, partially cuz he thought it would be funnier, partially to help distinguish it from other similar games. So not imposed by the execs at Rare or by the publisher. In fact, Nintendo of America initially had concerns about publishing the game due to it clashing with their family friendly image and stopped featuring it in Nintendo Power after the retool. In Europe, THQ had to publish because Nintendo of Europe refused to.

 

[BrawlMan]

But the point is, Conker originally was intended to be another kid's game like Banjo and Mario.

I am well aware of the history. It was only edgy by late 90s/2001 standards. And even then, only barely. Conker mostly had South Park style humor, parodies & "parodies", dated pop-culture references, and fart jokes. Even as a kid, it barely felt edgy to me. Most people have forgotten that he was even supposed to have kid appeal originally. Whatever edge Conker had, became lost by 2003 and beyond.

 

[BrawlMan]

I actually feel Warrior Within had by far the best overall gameplay of the trilogy, the combat and platforming were the best.

Was not worth it for me. That's practically the only reason my older brother kept coming back to Warrior Within: the combat and not much else.

 

[Samtemdo8]

I am well aware of the history. It was only edgy by late 90s/2001 standards. And even then, only barely. Conker mostly had South Park style humor, parodies & "parodies", dated pop-culture references, and fart jokes. Even as a kid, it barely felt edgy to me. Most people have forgotten that he was even supposed to have kid appeal originally. Whatever edge Conker had, became lost by 2003 and beyond.

Do you even remember the highlights that Conker the game had?

Because I just played the game recently and.........Conker is straight up a murderer in some instances. Barring the its War.

 

[BrawlMan]

Do you even remember the highlights that Conker the game had?

Because I just played the game recently and.........Conker is straight up a murderer in some instances. Barring the its War.

I remember, but even kid me was like, "Yeah, okay. That all ya got.". There were some moments that made laugh from the use of humor and dark humor, but that is about it.

 

[Samtemdo8]

I remember, but even kid me was like, "Yeah, okay. That all ya got.". There were some moments that made laugh from the use of humor and dark humor, but that is about it.

I laughed at Conker's Comment on the boiler boss:

"A Bourgeois Big-Bollocked Boiler"

 

[Hawki]

I mean for fuck's sake Conker was a playable character in Diddy Kong Racing. And this was before they made him into the foul mouthed drunk in his first game.

Good thing he became a drunk after kart racing. Otherwise, he'd have been drink driving.

Edit: Since people have already highlighted 'darker and edgier' transitions, I guess I can nominate:

-Army Men: Sarge's War (though it seems relatively self-aware)

-Advance Wars: Days of Ruin (though IMO, pulled it off)

-Doom 3 (arguably)

-Fuse (as in, its transition from Overstrike)

-Perfect Dark Zero (not darker, but certainly edgier, and to that I say "bleh")

-Legend of Spyro Trilogy (not edgier, but certainly darker)

-Rebooted Tomb Raider

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

So lacking an official definition of what “corporate edge” really is (I mean, even googling it on Urban Dictionary only came back with a masturbation technique, leaving off the former half of the term), I’d have to at least guess that mere dark and gritty games don’t necessarily corner the market on it.

Which brings me to Halo; an IP that single handedly put a gaming platform on the map and changed the course of console gaming - for better or worse - forever.

But would it have done so if they went with the original plan for it to be a *gasp* strategy game?

 

[BrawlMan]

-Doom 3 (arguably)

Doom 64 (and Doom on PS1 to a lesser extent) already beat Doom 3 to the punch. The only difference being Doom 3 went full System Shock.

So lacking an official definition of what “corporate edge” really is (I mean, even googling it on Urban Dictionary only came back with a masturbation technique, leaving off the former half of the term), I’d have to at least guess that mere dark and gritty games don’t necessarily corner the market on it.

Use this example: