Watch_Dogs is quite simply AMAZING!!!

[Laughing Man]

World immersion (for a sandbox game) and density of the world itself. So many sandboxes go for big and sacrifice detail, I quit GTA after playing San Andreas because of that.

Sorry but GTA 5 pisses all over WD.

WD is good in that it gives the impression of freedom and life going on in a big city but the reality is everything in the game is carefully scripted, everything is carefully layered to make it look like you are having an effect but the reality is it a pre programmed routine that is running.

Ever wondered why when you hack traffic light it always causes a smash, because the game has been programmed that way. It isn't freedom or interaction it's scripted.

GTA 5 on the other hand, stand at a traffic light pull a gun and fire at a random vehicle. Cars and Peds will start running and driving like mad, sometimes they will smash in to each other and create that wonderful effect you see every time you hack a traffic light in WD and sometimes they will just get away at high speed. That's immersion. Doing something random and not knowing what will happen as a result and it is something WD fails hard at because I know that if I do action A it will lead to action B. Where as in GTA 5 I could do action A and before I know it I am in a gang shoot out with a police chopper overhead and the innocents driving like maniacs trying to get away.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Watch Dogs is probably the least detailed sandbox I've seen. Your logic is an NOC turning around is subtle but having conversations=UFO. It's a little touch. The map is half city and part desert and Vice City was not just beach. If you play GTA V you'll know what I mean, the little touches. Watch Dogs has one-button hacking, inferior graphics, uninteresting city (I mean Chicago is mostly just flat urban areas and some parks), less side activities, inferior story, etc. You ignore that the NPCs in GTA V are more alive: They take pictures, try to fight you, and have more personality than random NPC #572 walking down a sidewalk. GTA V has Easter eggs which encourage exploring the beautiful environment and their are more things to do in it. Also, if you never played GTA V or the entire map then why are you complaining about it. You can't say the game is inferior overall if you haven't had the full experience. I am only judging Watch Dogs for certain aspects. And you should know that you're opinion isn't absolute and people think differently. You might think it's okay but I think this is a major disappointment, and you can't tell me I'm wrong any more than I can for you.

Just wow... No other sandbox is as dense and detailed as Watch Dogs even Jim Sterling said as much in his review. NPCs having conversations is NORMAL (i.e. nothing special). The UFO thing is more of an easter egg than anything. Easter eggs don't make the city feel "alive" like an NPC turning around to hear squealing tires or bending over to tie their shoe. There were 2 NPCs taking pictures in the video I posted. I've watched my friends play GTAV co-op online (in the same room) for a few hours, the map was nothing special at all (I seen it all). And, half of the first island of Vice City (my favorite GTA) is all beach (approximately 1/4 of the map). I can tell how bad the character controls still were, just climbing over a chest-high wall is so stiff and mechanical compared to Watch Dogs. And the fact that Rockstar games all have auto-aim tells you how bad the shooting is. I played RDR, the shooting was very subpar, so bad that I quit a 3rd into the game; I played with auto-aim/aim-assist off and I didn't die once, it was that easy, there was no point in me even playing.

The police are simple to get away from, you can hide in your car for example.

I appreciate your offering this hint to me, but it is exactly the same as that which the game gives and doesn't help to resolve the problem I was having with the mission. I found that the police weren't so simple to get away from because no matter what the circumstances of my hiding in my car, they inevitably sniffed me out, and I failed the mission. This caused a restart to the beginning of the mission with all that wonderful dialogue repeated each time. I found it to be frustrating as the game gave zero feedback on what I was doing wrong or how I might go about solving the problem. While this isn't necessarily a bad thing in a game, it is terrible game design when the failed mission acts like a gate, blocking off future advancement in the game.

If you would like to offer more suggestions other than what the game gives me, I am eager to hear it.

I don't know what else to tell you. Getting away from the cops is easy, and that second mission is like a tutorial mission, it's simple.

World immersion (for a sandbox game) and density of the world itself. So many sandboxes go for big and sacrifice detail, I quit GTA after playing San Andreas because of that.

Sorry but GTA 5 pisses all over WD.

WD is good in that it gives the impression of freedom and life going on in a big city but the reality is everything in the game is carefully scripted, everything is carefully layered to make it look like you are having an effect but the reality is it a pre programmed routine that is running.

Ever wondered why when you hack traffic light it always causes a smash, because the game has been programmed that way. It isn't freedom or interaction it's scripted.

GTA 5 on the other hand, stand at a traffic light pull a gun and fire at a random vehicle. Cars and Peds will start running and driving like mad, sometimes they will smash in to each other and create that wonderful effect you see every time you hack a traffic light in WD and sometimes they will just get away at high speed. That's immersion. Doing something random and not knowing what will happen as a result and it is something WD fails hard at because I know that if I do action A it will lead to action B. Where as in GTA 5 I could do action A and before I know it I am in a gang shoot out with a police chopper overhead and the innocents driving like maniacs trying to get away.

I'm fully aware that everything is scripted in any game. Civilians act more realistically in Watch Dogs, running away and calling the police. More important for me is how the enemy AI behaves to make the actual missions more interesting than doing random shit to civilians, that's where GTA fails hard.

 

[Laughing Man]

I'm fully aware that everything is scripted in any game. Civilians act more realistically in Watch Dogs, running away and calling the police. More important for me is how the enemy AI behaves to make the actual missions more interesting than doing random shit to civilians, that's where GTA fails hard.

Your answer to my question about why WD would be remember was because it was the most immersive open world game to date. You then back up my counter to this by firstly stating that the NPCs act more realistically, no sorry they have two reactions run away or call the police in the real world their is the element that would also fight back WD fails to represent that so how can it be immersive if it fails to represent a section of the real world?

You then switch to commenting on enemy AI, which also happens to be the ONLY aggressive AI in the game and ONLY appears at the start of missions and again disappears once the mission has ended. The NPCs in GTA can range from passive to full on aggressive and they are their all the time the NPCs in WD are passive with aggressive ones only appearing at pre set mission start points... hardly the immersive open world experience you're claiming it to be.

Oh I'll admit the enemy AI in the missions is better than that of GTA but since these guys are purely contained within the confines of missions they hardly represent an aspect of an open world game now do they? On a side note the missions in GTA have many more options and routes for tackling them, do I plough in with a car drive over as many bad guys as I can leap out use the car for cover and shoot the place up, do I parachute in set up a vantage point and snipe, or do I fly a buzzard in and start taking out bad guys from a distance... basically a whole host of options that WD can't even come close to touching with it's fantastic open world immersion as you play missions in contained buildings forcing you through the option of hacking your way in silently or shooting the place up and... um well that's about it, oh you can drive on some missions but you can't shoot because you know immersion prevents someone who carries guns from actually using them whilst driving... lol

 

[Brownie80]

Watch Dogs is probably the least detailed sandbox I've seen. Your logic is an NOC turning around is subtle but having conversations=UFO. It's a little touch. The map is half city and part desert and Vice City was not just beach. If you play GTA V you'll know what I mean, the little touches. Watch Dogs has one-button hacking, inferior graphics, uninteresting city (I mean Chicago is mostly just flat urban areas and some parks), less side activities, inferior story, etc. You ignore that the NPCs in GTA V are more alive: They take pictures, try to fight you, and have more personality than random NPC #572 walking down a sidewalk. GTA V has Easter eggs which encourage exploring the beautiful environment and their are more things to do in it. Also, if you never played GTA V or the entire map then why are you complaining about it. You can't say the game is inferior overall if you haven't had the full experience. I am only judging Watch Dogs for certain aspects. And you should know that you're opinion isn't absolute and people think differently. You might think it's okay but I think this is a major disappointment, and you can't tell me I'm wrong any more than I can for you.

Just wow... No other sandbox is as dense and detailed as Watch Dogs even Jim Sterling said as much in his review. NPCs having conversations is NORMAL (i.e. nothing special). The UFO thing is more of an easter egg than anything. Easter eggs don't make the city feel "alive" like an NPC turning around to hear squealing tires or bending over to tie their shoe. There were 2 NPCs taking pictures in the video I posted. I've watched my friends play GTAV co-op online (in the same room) for a few hours, the map was nothing special at all (I seen it all). And, half of the first island of Vice City (my favorite GTA) is all beach (approximately 1/4 of the map). I can tell how bad the character controls still were, just climbing over a chest-high wall is so stiff and mechanical compared to Watch Dogs. And the fact that Rockstar games all have auto-aim tells you how bad the shooting is. I played RDR, the shooting was very subpar, so bad that I quit a 3rd into the game; I played with auto-aim/aim-assist off and I didn't die once, it was that easy, there was no point in me even playing.

The police are simple to get away from, you can hide in your car for example.

I appreciate your offering this hint to me, but it is exactly the same as that which the game gives and doesn't help to resolve the problem I was having with the mission. I found that the police weren't so simple to get away from because no matter what the circumstances of my hiding in my car, they inevitably sniffed me out, and I failed the mission. This caused a restart to the beginning of the mission with all that wonderful dialogue repeated each time. I found it to be frustrating as the game gave zero feedback on what I was doing wrong or how I might go about solving the problem. While this isn't necessarily a bad thing in a game, it is terrible game design when the failed mission acts like a gate, blocking off future advancement in the game.

If you would like to offer more suggestions other than what the game gives me, I am eager to hear it.

I don't know what else to tell you. Getting away from the cops is easy, and that second mission is like a tutorial mission, it's simple.

World immersion (for a sandbox game) and density of the world itself. So many sandboxes go for big and sacrifice detail, I quit GTA after playing San Andreas because of that.

Sorry but GTA 5 pisses all over WD.

WD is good in that it gives the impression of freedom and life going on in a big city but the reality is everything in the game is carefully scripted, everything is carefully layered to make it look like you are having an effect but the reality is it a pre programmed routine that is running.

Ever wondered why when you hack traffic light it always causes a smash, because the game has been programmed that way. It isn't freedom or interaction it's scripted.

GTA 5 on the other hand, stand at a traffic light pull a gun and fire at a random vehicle. Cars and Peds will start running and driving like mad, sometimes they will smash in to each other and create that wonderful effect you see every time you hack a traffic light in WD and sometimes they will just get away at high speed. That's immersion. Doing something random and not knowing what will happen as a result and it is something WD fails hard at because I know that if I do action A it will lead to action B. Where as in GTA 5 I could do action A and before I know it I am in a gang shoot out with a police chopper overhead and the innocents driving like maniacs trying to get away.

I'm fully aware that everything is scripted in any game. Civilians act more realistically in Watch Dogs, running away and calling the police. More important for me is how the enemy AI behaves to make the actual missions more interesting than doing random shit to civilians, that's where GTA fails hard.

None of that disproves that Watch Dogs is the least alive and least detailed sandbox ever. GTA V had so much more and you think you've seen everything in GTAV because you watched some friends play it for a time. Just wow. That must mean you're an expert on everything sandbox, am I right? The GTA V map is the the most alive, realistic, and detailed map of any open world game in history.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

None of that disproves that Watch Dogs is the least alive and least detailed sandbox ever. GTA V had so much more and you think you've seen everything in GTAV because you watched some friends play it for a time. Just wow. That must mean you're an expert on everything sandbox, am I right? The GTA V map is the the most alive, realistic, and detailed map of any open world game in history.

You haven't proved GTAV is alive either. A gif of NPCs talking was the best you could come up with. My video of just walking down a couple blocks in Watch Dogs showed more NPC variations and detail than any area in GTAV. Most of the map of GTAV is like most of the map of San Andreas, which I really had to struggle to just to finish it because it was so boring. I'm not an expert on GTAV obviously, but I saw more than enough to know the gameplay, controls, and missions were the exact reason why San Andreas bored me years ago.

 

[Brownie80]

None of that disproves that Watch Dogs is the least alive and least detailed sandbox ever. GTA V had so much more and you think you've seen everything in GTAV because you watched some friends play it for a time. Just wow. That must mean you're an expert on everything sandbox, am I right? The GTA V map is the the most alive, realistic, and detailed map of any open world game in history.

You haven't proved GTAV is alive either. A gif of NPCs talking was the best you could come up with. My video of just walking down a couple blocks in Watch Dogs showed more NPC variations and detail than any area in GTAV. Most of the map of GTAV is like most of the map of San Andreas, which I really had to struggle to just to finish it because it was so boring. I'm not an expert on GTAV obviously, but I saw more than enough to know the gameplay, controls, and missions were the exact reason why San Andreas bored me years ago.

I shower more photos than that. I didn't show a picture of NPCs talking to each other I showed them taking pictures. All they do in Watch Dogs is run away or call the police.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I shower more photos than that. I didn't show a picture of NPCs talking to each other I showed them taking pictures. All they do in Watch Dogs is run away or call the police.

2 NPCs took pictures in my video...

 

[Brownie80]

I shower more photos than that. I didn't show a picture of NPCs talking to each other I showed them taking pictures. All they do in Watch Dogs is run away or call the police.

2 NPCs took pictures in my video...

Of what? Something other than yours? And even if, then how does that mean "detailed." That means about the city not the civilian AI.

 

[Directionless]

Watch Dogs just blows away Rockstar's games like GTA and RDR, it's not even a contest.

That's a huge statement friend. Better than RDR? I don't think that's possible.

 

[black_knight1337]

Watch Dogs is probably the least detailed sandbox I've seen.

I'd disagree. Imo Watch Dogs is one of, if not the most detailed sandbox game around. You make it seem as though all the NPCs do is wander around and talk/use their phones. There's way more detail than just that. Having a short walk around I saw NPCs lining up to and using an atm, street performers (playing instruments, human statue etc), gardening, beggars, taking photos and more generic actions (jogging, talking, reading, using tablets, drinking etc). And that was all on one block. Combine those with NPCs reacting to your presence (noticing your 'the vigilante', taking photos of you etc), the profiler showing interesting details and the emergent gameplay (crimes) and the world ends up feeling really alive. Of course, I've never played GTA V so I can't comment on how it compares to that but still, there is a lot of detail in Watch Dogs.

OT: I've been having a blast with it. The hacking is satisfying, the gunplay is good, the driving is good, the missions are mostly well designed, open and varied and it's packed with so much content. My only major complaint is the mouse controls. The main menu is really sensitive and the phone UI doesn't use a cursor but instead treats the mouse like arrow keys. Overall I'm really happy with it, a definite GotY contender. Really looking forward to digging into the rest of the side missions and the upcoming DLC.

 

[Brownie80]

Watch Dogs is probably the least detailed sandbox I've seen.

I'd disagree. Imo Watch Dogs is one of, if not the most detailed sandbox game around. You make it seem as though all the NPCs do is wander around and talk/use their phones. There's way more detail than just that. Having a short walk around I saw NPCs lining up to and using an atm, street performers (playing instruments, human statue etc), gardening, beggars, taking photos and more generic actions (jogging, talking, reading, using tablets, drinking etc). And that was all on one block. Combine those with NPCs reacting to your presence (noticing your 'the vigilante', taking photos of you etc), the profiler showing interesting details and the emergent gameplay (crimes) and the world ends up feeling really alive. Of course, I've never played GTA V so I can't comment on how it compares to that but still, there is a lot of detail in Watch Dogs.

OT: I've been having a blast with it. The hacking is satisfying, the gunplay is good, the driving is good, the missions are mostly well designed, open and varied and it's packed with so much content. My only major complaint is the mouse controls. The main menu is really sensitive and the phone UI doesn't use a cursor but instead treats the mouse like arrow keys. Overall I'm really happy with it, a definite GotY contender. Really looking forward to digging into the rest of the side missions and the upcoming DLC.

Yeah but you see that in GTA V too. But since you probably haven't played it you probably wouldn't know that. I am not judging you or anything but still. However, many have pointed out that the game has many other shortcomings, but you obviously aren't bothered by those issues, and that's great. I'm glad that you're 60 dollars you put to getting this game wasn't a waste by any means by your standards and that's good. However, I just can't get past it. I guess it's just not appealing to me.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Of what? Something other than yours? And even if, then how does that mean "detailed." That means about the city not the civilian AI.

1 took a picture of me. And the other NPC took a picture of a couple towards the end.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Watch Dogs just blows away Rockstar's games like GTA and RDR, it's not even a contest.

That's a huge statement friend. Better than RDR? I don't think that's possible.

I played RDR up until I got to Mexico. Every mission was horrible do I quit playing. Each mission was go to Point B with bad horse controls, you cross the imaginary line in which all the enemies know your position and start shooting, then you play whack-a-mole to kill them all. That was EVERY mission. I didn't even die once all game, and since their was no challenge plus the boring missions, I didn't see the point of continuing on when I'm not having fun and it feels like my input doesn't matter. Plus, I loathe Dan Houser's writing so much that I'll never play another game that he wrote (I HATED Max Payne 3 and the characters were pretty annoying in RDR).

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

This is why Watch Dogs just kills GTA and RDR. The character control of Aiden is just so much smoother when compared to Rockstar's games along with the animations themselves; the cover system is so much better allowing for cover swap melees and shooting. The enemy AI is better, which allows for mix and matching between gunplay, stealth, and hacking. There's so many options you have at your disposal in Watch Dogs to go about engaging each and every enemy. If you play it like a bland cover shooter like the IGN playthrough [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHlYuhdyeDg] of the same mission, that's your own fault.

 

[Directionless]

Watch Dogs just blows away Rockstar's games like GTA and RDR, it's not even a contest.

That's a huge statement friend. Better than RDR? I don't think that's possible.

I played RDR up until I got to Mexico. Every mission was horrible do I quit playing. Each mission was go to Point B with bad horse controls, you cross the imaginary line in which all the enemies know your position and start shooting, then you play whack-a-mole to kill them all. That was EVERY mission. I didn't even die once all game, and since their was no challenge plus the boring missions, I didn't see the point of continuing on when I'm not having fun and it feels like my input doesn't matter. Plus, I loathe Dan Houser's writing so much that I'll never play another game that he wrote (I HATED Max Payne 3 and the characters were pretty annoying in RDR).

Oh, oh you poor child. I'm so sorry. Red Dead was everything. It was the atmosphere, characters, writing, story, gameplay, music. The experience was just sublime, and i'm sorry you don't feel the same way.

And Dan Houser and co are the best writers in the industry. So is it the occasional vulgarity that you dislike?

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Oh, oh you poor child. I'm so sorry. Red Dead was everything. It was the atmosphere, characters, writing, story, gameplay, music. The experience was just sublime, and i'm sorry you don't feel the same way.

And Dan Houser and co are the best writers in the industry. So is it the occasional vulgarity that you dislike?

The gameplay was just complete shit. There was a mission where the game forces you to get into a house by climbing up one specific ladder, then another specific ladder, then through a specific window. Why can't I find my own way into a fucking house in an open world/sandbox game? That's the problem with Rockstar's games, they are sandbox games with linear missions thus defeating the whole point of their own genre.

I don't give a fuck about vulgarity, the writing was just horrible. Max Payne 3 was so bad across the board from characters to story. You can tell when a line was written that was supposed to be funny but was the opposite. And, the story was such a mess, a bunch of people you just couldn't give 2 shits about from Max himself to the people he's protecting to the villains. It was clear Max Payne was trying to be all gritty like a Tony Scott/Michael Mann film but failed just as horribly as Michael Mann failed with Miami Vice. With RDR, there was literally no story for the 1st 3rd of the game. The characters just babble on about government stuff for no reason; when Marston meets Bonnie's father for the 1st time, they start talking about the government. The way you make your work about something is showing, not telling; even freaking Hideo Kojima does a better job with that. If Dan Houser was working in any other medium, he'd be considered a hack on the level of Michael Bay or Stephanie Meyer. If Max Payne 3 was film with the same exact script, it would be Bad Boys 2 bad.

 

[Directionless]

The characters just babble on about government stuff for no reason?

Okay... Once again, i'm sorry.

And Max Payne 3 in movie format would be Man on Fire.

 

[Brownie80]

Of what? Something other than yours? And even if, then how does that mean "detailed." That means about the city not the civilian AI.

1 took a picture of me. And the other NPC took a picture of a couple towards the end.

Who cares, the exact same things and more is in GTA V. I have counted my inbox, you have replied to me no less than 11 times, mostly saying how wrong I am about the NPCs and how it looks better than GTA V and almost nothing else. 11 times. On stuff people shrug off as superficial and just an added bonus. If I may ask, what are you trying to prove? It's obvious I have made my decision by now that GTA V is subjectively a better game and you've gone back-and-forth with me saying that Watch_Dogs is objectively a better game. As someone who's favorite genre of game is sandbox games I know what I would like in sandboxes and Watch Dogs offers that, but not much else. I'm sure I would like it, but GTA V is something I LOVE. You'll need to try better than that if you want to convince me that I am wrong in that preference. I know I can't say your wrong in your own preferences but you should have the same tolerance for mine. Can you do that, please?

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The characters just babble on about government stuff for no reason?

Okay... Once again, i'm sorry.

And Max Payne 3 in movie format would be Man on Fire.

Dan Houser tells instead of shows. When you first meet someone, you don't talk politics.

MP3 wouldn't be Man on Fire because Man on Fire is actually decent and Denzel's character is actually likeable and not a moron.

Who cares, the exact same things and more is in GTA V. I have counted my inbox, you have replied to me no less than 11 times, mostly saying how wrong I am about the NPCs and how it looks better than GTA V and almost nothing else. 11 times. On stuff people shrug off as superficial and just an added bonus. If I may ask, what are you trying to prove? It's obvious I have made my decision by now that GTA V is subjectively a better game and you've gone back-and-forth with me saying that Watch_Dogs is objectively a better game. As someone who's favorite genre of game is sandbox games I know what I would like in sandboxes and Watch Dogs offers that, but not much else. I'm sure I would like it, but GTA V is something I LOVE. You'll need to try better than that if you want to convince me that I am wrong in that preference. I know I can't say your wrong in your own preferences but you should have the same tolerance for mine. Can you do that, please?

You're the one saying GTAV has more NPC interaction when it clearly doesn't and you also say GTAV is graphically better looking than PS4 Watch Dogs, which is asinine. I realize graphics doesn't matter but you're saying the equivalent that Mario on N64 looks better than Mario on Gamecube. Watch Dogs has character models that are at least as good as PS3/360's best looking linear games like an Uncharted. GTAV is far from the best looking PS3/360 because you can make a smaller area more detailed than a larger area, it's just common sense.

 

[Brownie80]

The characters just babble on about government stuff for no reason?

Okay... Once again, i'm sorry.

And Max Payne 3 in movie format would be Man on Fire.

Dan Houser tells instead of shows. When you first meet someone, you don't talk politics.

MP3 wouldn't be Man on Fire because Man on Fire is actually decent and Denzel's character is actually likeable and not a moron.

Who cares, the exact same things and more is in GTA V. I have counted my inbox, you have replied to me no less than 11 times, mostly saying how wrong I am about the NPCs and how it looks better than GTA V and almost nothing else. 11 times. On stuff people shrug off as superficial and just an added bonus. If I may ask, what are you trying to prove? It's obvious I have made my decision by now that GTA V is subjectively a better game and you've gone back-and-forth with me saying that Watch_Dogs is objectively a better game. As someone who's favorite genre of game is sandbox games I know what I would like in sandboxes and Watch Dogs offers that, but not much else. I'm sure I would like it, but GTA V is something I LOVE. You'll need to try better than that if you want to convince me that I am wrong in that preference. I know I can't say your wrong in your own preferences but you should have the same tolerance for mine. Can you do that, please?

You're the one saying GTAV has more NPC interaction when it clearly doesn't and you also say GTAV is graphically better looking than PS4 Watch Dogs, which is asinine. I realize graphics doesn't matter but you're saying the equivalent that Mario on N64 looks better than Mario on Gamecube. Watch Dogs has character models that are at least as good as PS3/360's best looking linear games like an Uncharted. GTAV is far from the best looking PS3/360 because you can make a smaller area more detailed than a larger area, it's just common sense.

It's not and never will be a fact that Watch Dogs has better NPC interaction than GTA V(which it dosen't) and that the graphics are objectively better(even when graphics are subjective). Yeah, keep trying. We get that you just like Watch Dogs, okay? Please stop shoving down our throats this crap about it being a fact that Watch Dogs is better than GTA V and saying we are all wrong for liking it more.