Weird PS3 aliasing issue

[FieryTrainwreck]

I play primarily on a 1080p HDTV from Insignia. Not the nicest display by any streth, but 360 and PC games look great. PS3 games? Not so much. I get severe jaggies with Demon's Souls and Infamous. No issues with newer stuff like Uncharted 2 and God of War 3, but I understand they have software-based edge smoothing.

The weird bit is that I see no such jaggies when I hook up the PS3 to a much older television in the next room, an admittedly crazy-nice Sony (old school flat screen tube set, weighs about 250lbs) that maxes out at 720p. The picture quality is really night-and-day; it's basically "whoa jaggies?!" versus "no jaggies".

Any ideas as to how I go about potentially fixing this? I've tried locking the PS3 to 720. I know the monitor is properly changing resolutions; I've seen 360 and PC games in the 720 mode, and they still look great. Is there a setting I don't know about, on the TV or the PS3, that might help? Do I simply need a higher quality set?

I've asked this question before, and it always sets off these ridiculous flame wars with some PS3 users claiming zero aliasing issues while others (mostly 360 fanboys) decry them as delusional/ignorant/idiotic. I'm trying to avoid that here. I believe some PS3 owners see no jaggies because I've experienced it. I also believe others see a decent amount of aliasing because I've experienced that, too.

I guess the best way to put it is this: does anyone use a 1080p set that properly displays older PS3 titles (like Demon's Souls and Infamous) at 720 with minimal or no aliasing?

Edit: I should mention, it's an LCD display, and I'm using HDMI.

 

[oplinger]

720p<1080p

Problem solved. Moving right along...

 

[Dark Harbinger]

Odd, I have not encountered that before, if you have a small tv and are using 1080p on it, the upscaling on a small screen can affect the quality, also there is the simple possibility that the games you're playing aren't native to that resolution, whenever I play Infamous however, my TV, (a 26 inch LG LED) automatically adjusts to the best resolution for that game, perhaps yours doesn't, you could try either fiddling about in the TV or PS3 settings.

 

[Jimmy T. Malice]

I find that if I try to run inFamous on any higher than 720p (the highest resolution supported on the back of the game box) it just reverts to SD and becomes all blurry. So I guess I have the exact opposite problem...

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

720p<1080p

Problem solved. Moving right along...

Problem not remotely solved.

The problem I'm having is that 720p on one set is drastically inferior to 720p on another set. The first one is a 1080p monitor in a 720p mode and the second one maxes out at 720p. The first one is also an LCD TV while the second is an older CRT.

It only happens with some games (Demon's Souls and Infamous, notably). Other, newer titles look great on both sets.

I've noticed CRTs are a whole lot less prone to jaggies than LCDs are. When I game on an LCD I have to use 4x or even 8x on some games to completely eradicate the annoying bastards, but on my CRT I rarely need more than 2x if I need any at all.

I'm guessing this is the issue because none of my settings are "off". The set is definitely going to 720p for these "jaggy" games.

 

[oplinger]

720p<1080p

Problem solved. Moving right along...

Problem not remotely solved.

The problem I'm having is that 720p on one set is drastically inferior to 720p on another set. The first one is a 1080p monitor in a 720p mode and the second one maxes out at 720p. The first one is also an LCD TV while the second is an older CRT.

It only happens with some games (Demon's Souls and Infamous, notably). Other, newer titles look great on both sets.

...You know what? Yeah, let's go with that. Nothing like a native 1080p TV stretching a smaller image across is large unfiltered surface. That couldn't cause ANY SORT OF ALIASING AT ALL.

but hey, a native 720p TV stretching a 720 image? that makes sense too!

This is a sand castle of nonsensical stupidity. I'm sorry to waste your time.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

...You know what? Yeah, let's go with that. Nothing like a native 1080p TV stretching a smaller image across is large unfiltered surface. That couldn't cause ANY SORT OF ALIASING AT ALL.

but hey, a native 720p TV stretching a 720 image? that makes sense too!

This is a sand castle of nonsensical stupidity. I'm sorry to waste your time.

I'm not confused by the issue so much as I'm trying to find out if there is any sort of SOLUTION to the problem of a 1080p TV causing jaggies in 720 games. Failing that, I'm wondering if anyone has a 1080p TV that will properly display (without the jaggies) 720p games like Infamous and Demon's Souls as if they were appearing on a native 720 display - in other words, trying to find out if an upgrade to my television will fix this.

But by all means, continue with the douchey treatment of others. We really need more people misunderstanding (or failing to finish reading) posts, responding in trite and condescending brevity, and finishing up with grade-A tantrums. Keep up the good work.

 

[oplinger]

...You know what? Yeah, let's go with that. Nothing like a native 1080p TV stretching a smaller image across is large unfiltered surface. That couldn't cause ANY SORT OF ALIASING AT ALL.

but hey, a native 720p TV stretching a 720 image? that makes sense too!

This is a sand castle of nonsensical stupidity. I'm sorry to waste your time.

I'm not confused by the issue so much as I'm trying to find out if there is any sort of SOLUTION to the problem of a 1080p TV causing jaggies in 720 games. Failing that, I'm wondering if anyone has a 1080p TV that will properly display (without the jaggies) 720p games like Infamous and Demon's Souls as if they were appearing on a native 720 display - in other words, trying to find out if an upgrade to my television will fix this.

But by all means, continue with the douchey treatment of others. We really need more people misunderstanding (or failing to finish reading) posts, responding in trite and condescending brevity, and finishing up with grade-A tantrums. Keep up the good work.

Glad to see you're coming along nicely with that then. However I read your post. Your solution is that stretching 720 images on a 1080p monitor is your exact problem. The only fix is obvious. Don't stretch it, or make the game a higher resolution. Or anti-alias it, which is basically the same deal as anti-aliasing upscales the rendering by a certain multiple, then downscales it to your image size.

You're not going to find a magical solution that makes it go away unless you can convince the content creators to make the game renderable at a higher resolution, or force your PS3 to anti-alias the image, which I'm sure it can't do. I was assuming you understood these facts.

 

[Googenstien]

Are you sure its not 1080i?? In your PS3 settings uncheck 1080i as a display option, also most games and all TV display in 720p so defaulting to 720p on your PS3 isnt such a bad idea. When you have a game that does 1080p then turn set it to that, takes only 3 clicks on the PS3.

 

[Aphex Demon]

The anti aliasing looks fucking horrendous on some games on the PS3 anyway. I didn't buy Mafia 2 just because the AA was shocking.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Glad to see you're coming along nicely with that then. However I read your post. Your solution is that stretching 720 images on a 1080p monitor is your exact problem. The only fix is obvious. Don't stretch it, or make the game a higher resolution. Or anti-alias it, which is basically the same deal as anti-aliasing upscales the rendering by a certain multiple, then downscales it to your image size.

I agree this is almost certainly the source of the problem. If the jaggies do not appear on an native 720p display but do appear when the image is stretched to fill a 1080p display then that is certainly where the problem lies. If the image is anti-aliased, adding an enormous amount of display area is just going to reintroduce the aliasing problem (only now you get slightly blurry jaggies!)

You're not going to find a magical solution that makes it go away unless you can convince the content creators to make the game renderable at a higher resolution, or force your PS3 to anti-alias the image, which I'm sure it can't do. I was assuming you understood these facts.

The PS3 can anti-alias in the sense that it is a universal computational device and can run the algorithm. However that is done at the software level. If the developers designed the game for 720p and they implemented AA for that resolution then it's basically what you're stuck with. The console does not have a universal AA option. Whatever the game deems worthy of displaying is what it's going to dump to the screen.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

Glad to see you're coming along nicely with that then. However I read your post. Your solution is that stretching 720 images on a 1080p monitor is your exact problem. The only fix is obvious. Don't stretch it, or make the game a higher resolution. Or anti-alias it, which is basically the same deal as anti-aliasing upscales the rendering by a certain multiple, then downscales it to your image size.

You're not going to find a magical solution that makes it go away unless you can convince the content creators to make the game renderable at a higher resolution, or force your PS3 to anti-alias the image, which I'm sure it can't do. I was assuming you understood these facts.

You assumed I understood everything regarding the issue that prompted me to post in the first place... ?

Are you always this confrontational when attempting to disseminate information to someone who might be less knowledgeable than you regarding a specific topic? I'm fairly sure it's possible to educate another reasonably intelligent human being without resorting to outright condescension and d-baggery.

The PS3 can anti-alias in the sense that it is a universal computational device and can run the algorithm. However that is done at the software level. If the developers designed the game for 720p and they implemented AA for that resolution then it's basically what you're stuck with. The console does not have a universal AA option. Whatever the game deems worthy of displaying is what it's going to dump to the screen.

Yeah, that about sums it up. The newer games (Uncharted 2, GoW3) are obviously running software solutions for AA. The older titles, 720 res games with no software AA solution, look just fine on a native 720 TV. My 1080 TV, despite claiming a "720" mode, must be downscaling? That would explain the inferior image quality versus the native 720 set in the next room.

Question is: can you get a 1080 tv that properly downscales to 720 for these older PS3 games? What kind of television would that be?

 

[oplinger]

Glad to see you're coming along nicely with that then. However I read your post. Your solution is that stretching 720 images on a 1080p monitor is your exact problem. The only fix is obvious. Don't stretch it, or make the game a higher resolution. Or anti-alias it, which is basically the same deal as anti-aliasing upscales the rendering by a certain multiple, then downscales it to your image size.

You're not going to find a magical solution that makes it go away unless you can convince the content creators to make the game renderable at a higher resolution, or force your PS3 to anti-alias the image, which I'm sure it can't do. I was assuming you understood these facts.

You assumed I understood everything regarding the issue that prompted me to post in the first place... ?

Are you always this confrontational when attempting to disseminate information to someone who might be less knowledgeable than you regarding a specific topic? I'm fairly sure it's possible to educate another reasonably intelligent human being without resorting to outright condescension and d-baggery.

I assumed if you weren't confused by the issue at hand, that you had some sort of grasp on the overall concept, yes. You seemed to understand the differences in resolution. And you understood your TV upscales the image as it has a 720p mode but remains a 1080p TV.

I figured my initial post being, with those assumptions in mind, short and sweet, gave you the necessary information to conclude on your own that the image rendered is being stretched to the display. As 720p is smaller than 1080p.

Your response claimed that I was not only wrong, but was not even close to the proper answer. Where in it seemed that you figured I was just being a dick. Wasn't really the case. The answer to your problem was that simple. If you wanted me to explain it in detail, it would have been a longer post. So being dismissive to my information due to its simplicity, I responded with sarcasm. Where you then claimed that you were not confused by the problem, so my information was useless.

If you truly were lacking entirely in information on the subject, I would have happily explained had you asked. Rather than dismissed me based on the simplicity of my information.

If you'd like I could explain now. In great detail. Hopefully not condescendingly.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

I've not experienced much in the way of jaggie in Uncharted 2. I'm playing in 720p on a 22" Samsung SM P2450 wich is a 1080p monitor. Personally they've only appeared exclusively in cut scenes. Perhaps your TV just doesn't handle upscaling well?

The anti aliasing looks fucking horrendous on some games on the PS3 anyway. I didn't buy Mafia 2 just because the AA was shocking.

Only if you don't know how to work around it and it's usually only present in third party titles. Almost anything from SCE looks great.

 

[Aphex Demon]

I've not experienced much in the way of jaggie in Uncharted 2. I'm playing in 720p on a 22" Samsung SM P2450 wich is a 1080p monitor. Personally they've only appeared exclusively in cut scenes. Perhaps your TV just doesn't handle upscaling well?

The anti aliasing looks fucking horrendous on some games on the PS3 anyway. I didn't buy Mafia 2 just because the AA was shocking.

Only if you don't know how to work around it and it's usually only present in third party titles. Almost anything from SCE looks great.

Work is boring without your presence by the way, Tom.

What do you mean by work around it?

 

[Azure-Supernova]

I've not experienced much in the way of jaggie in Uncharted 2. I'm playing in 720p on a 22" Samsung SM P2450 wich is a 1080p monitor. Personally they've only appeared exclusively in cut scenes. Perhaps your TV just doesn't handle upscaling well?

The anti aliasing looks fucking horrendous on some games on the PS3 anyway. I didn't buy Mafia 2 just because the AA was shocking.

Only if you don't know how to work around it and it's usually only present in third party titles. Almost anything from SCE looks great.

Work is boring without your presence by the way, Tom.

What do you mean by work around it?

Yeah, yet sitting out here in the sun with my laptop I don't particularly miss the office xD

And yeah, I had a problem with Infamous and jaggies, so I mucked about with brightness settings and sharpness and made them disappear >.>

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

If you'd like I could explain now. In great detail. Hopefully not condescendingly.

"720p<1080p

Problem solved. Moving right along..."

I think that's an asshole post. It's all right there in the dismissive tone and ellipses.

Are you an engineer, by chance? Or employed in a similarly hi-tech field?

Do you use, or are you aware of, a 1080p TV that properly (or better) upscales 720 images? Is there a certain type, brand, or model that does this better than mine? Because that's the pertinent question once you've established that I cannot improve the image quality of these games on my current set. Probably why I asked it in the original post (which you claim to have read start to finish), and yet you haven't bothered to respond to that bit.