well, the the escapist was just attacked.

[ElMinotoro]

I'm pretty sure we can all see the obvious truth here. This was a false flag attack by gamergate supporters in an attempt to make anti-GG supporters look bad. Don't you find it strange that one of the first posts on this thread was this theory that it was an anti-GG plot? Don't you find it strange that this all happened while the moon was ascending into Aries? The timing is too perfect.

I, too, can make spurious claims based on nothing.

Well it all stems from this website's own manager posting on twitter that it was probably anti-gamergate, which, given that it was targeted at the main thread, makes sense. Sure, we don't know for a fact that it was, but using occam's razor someone or a group which is part of anti-gamergate is the most logical assumption, with someone or a group from gamergate being a distance second and unaffiliated being third.

- DDOS attack is currently underway against @TheEscapistMag. The attackers are specifically targeting the GamerGate forum thread.

-Attacks have resumed. It is a large number of IP addresses targeted the GamerGate thread for reload many times per second.

-Several of you have asked with @TheEscapistMag will close down all discussion of #GamerGate because of this; the answer is "no".

Those are the only tweets in which he's mentioned Gamergate in reference to the ddos. He also threatens to cosplay. He doesn't throw any kind of blame in any direction. I know this because I've just checked.

 

[MathHamy]

I'm pretty sure we can all see the obvious truth here. This was a false flag attack by gamergate supporters in an attempt to make anti-GG supporters look bad. Don't you find it strange that one of the first posts on this thread was this theory that it was an anti-GG plot? Don't you find it strange that this all happened while the moon was ascending into Aries? The timing is too perfect.

I, too, can make spurious claims based on nothing.

Well it all stems from this website's own manager posting on twitter that it was probably anti-gamergate, which, given that it was targeted at the main thread, makes sense. Sure, we don't know for a fact that it was, but using occam's razor someone or a group which is part of anti-gamergate is the most logical assumption, with someone or a group from gamergate being a distance second and unaffiliated being third.

- DDOS attack is currently underway against @TheEscapistMag. The attackers are specifically targeting the GamerGate forum thread.

-Attacks have resumed. It is a large number of IP addresses targeted the GamerGate thread for reload many times per second.

-Several of you have asked with @TheEscapistMag will close down all discussion of #GamerGate because of this; the answer is "no".

Those are the only tweets in which he's mentioned Gamergate in reference to the ddos. He also threatens to cosplay. He doesn't throw any kind of blame in any direction. I know this because I've just checked.

The attack is on the Escapist, the only major gaming website which to my knowledge has fully agreed to GamerGate's demands. How can the first assumption be that the attack is anything but perpetrated by the "anti-GG side"?

If you remain unconvinced, refer to my more fleshed out argument at the top of this page. If you still remain unconvinced, tell me what points I have forgotten or which of my premises is wrong, because I want to know and your argument is essentially "we can't know for sure as there is no proof".

 

[SnakeTrousers]

The attack is on the Escapist, the only major gaming website which to my knowledge has fully agreed to GamerGate's demands. How can the first assumption be that the attack is anything but perpetrated by the "anti-GG side"?

If you remain unconvinced, refer to my more fleshed out argument at the top of this page. If you still remain unconvinced, tell me what points I have forgotten or which of my premises is wrong, because I want to know and your argument is essentially "we can't know for sure as there is no proof".

Does he need another one? What are assumptions and mass accusations going to accomplish based on speculation going to accomplish?

 

[MathHamy]

The attack is on the Escapist, the only major gaming website which to my knowledge has fully agreed to GamerGate's demands. How can the first assumption be that the attack is anything but perpetrated by the "anti-GG side"?

If you remain unconvinced, refer to my more fleshed out argument at the top of this page. If you still remain unconvinced, tell me what points I have forgotten or which of my premises is wrong, because I want to know and your argument is essentially "we can't know for sure as there is no proof".

Does he need another one? What are assumptions and mass accusations going to accomplish based on speculation going to accomplish?

It's not only speculation and assumptions. Check my argument at the top, I believe it is entirely logical. If it's not, then tell me why it isn't and I will change my position. Please point out which of my assumptions you think is disputable.

As for what it will accomplish, I have a personal interest in the matter as I am a GG supporter, mostly subscribing to TotalBiscuit's and TFYC Matt's interpretation of the incident. I hope that we eventually will know for sure who's behind these attacks, and I'm pretty sure that if we do it will end up being crazies from the opposition.

EDIT: Maybe I should add that I'm a mathematician. I know that sometimes it's possible to logically work out what the truth is without having any physical evidence at all, it's what I do every day. I believe that method can shed some clarity on this situation as well, and clarity is always preferred.

 

[Kungfusam]

It is about integrity, or the total lack thereof

Milo pointing out their corrupt behavior isn't quite in the same league as Leigh "microphone" Alexander bragging about crushing a young woman's dreams

Milo insulting an actually sympathetic journalist because she had the gall to demand him to provide evidence for his allegations puts him quite on par, though.

Which ties in to the larger point that you lose the rights to bemoan someone's lack of ethic then ignore or whitewash the same thing from "your" side.

You forgot to mention that she first insulted him, that GG called him out and that Milo apologised

Your "side" however calls us misogynerd pedophiles and claim we're worst than ISIS without ever apologising

 

[Dragonbums]

Is that what happened? Eh. I just thought Escapist was being dumb again and did something else with my time.

 

[Erttheking]

I do wonder if people will finally start to realise just how toxic the anti-GG camp is.


I guess some people will still believe what they feel is correct, however, when things like this stare you in the face, it's perhaps time to consider the reality.

Show me proof then we'll talk. Don't jump to conclusions and call it reality.

 

[The Lunatic]

Show me proof then we'll talk. Don't jump to conclusions and call it reality.

I know enough for me to believe. The nature of such is that there will never be define prove, just probably cause and things being incredibly likely.

You're welcome to believe whatever you like, even if it goes against common sense.

 

[Erttheking]

Show me proof then we'll talk. Don't jump to conclusions and call it reality.

I know enough for me to believe. The nature of such is that there will never be define prove, just probably cause and things being incredibly likely.

You're welcome to believe whatever you like, even if it goes against common sense.

Don't you dare flat out tell me you have no proof but I'm going against common sense for not swallowing your narrative like a mindless sheep! I thought gamer gate was about journalistic integrity, which included not jumping to conclusions and checking the facts. Does that not apply for you?

 

[The Lunatic]

Don't you dare flat out tell me you have no proof but I'm going against common sense for not swallowing your narrative like a mindless sheep! I thought gamer gate was about journalistic integrity, which included not jumping to conclusions and checking the facts. Does that not apply for you?

Well, you seem to be of the opinion that everything a certain group does is wrong.

I present the idea that both sides do some stupid shit.

I can only really say that the former seems more mindless than the latter.


As for myself. Well, no.

I'm not a journalists. I'm not a support of Gamersgate. I'm not against it either.

I'm merely on the sidelines, and it occurs to me, whilst either side likes to paint themselves as innocents, there's clearly some venom to both sides.

Be it DDOSing websites, Sending Milo some needles filled with a mystery liquid. Threatening people who call themselves journalists, or posting nudes of Zoe Quinn.

 

[Barbas]

Show me proof then we'll talk. Don't jump to conclusions and call it reality.

I know enough for me to believe. The nature of such is that there will never be define prove, just probably cause and things being incredibly likely.

You're welcome to believe whatever you like, even if it goes against common sense.

What is "common sense"? I used to use those two words a lot, most often when I was describing what I'd do in a certain situation and why that was right and rational and more intelligent than the response that was being suggested. I think it might be one of those things that's different to everyone, though.

I personally don't think that the term "common sense" should be applied to beginning at a conclusion and trying to find facts to fit around it, do you? It may be convenient to believe that this attack was perpetrated by a certain person or "side", but that's all it is - convenient.

 

[Erttheking]

Don't you dare flat out tell me you have no proof but I'm going against common sense for not swallowing your narrative like a mindless sheep! I thought gamer gate was about journalistic integrity, which included not jumping to conclusions and checking the facts. Does that not apply for you?

Well, you seem to be of the opinion that everything a certain group does is wrong.

I present the idea that both sides do some stupid shit.

I can only really say that the former seems more mindless than the latter.


As for myself. Well, no.

I'm not a journalists. I'm not a support of Gamersgate. I'm not against it either.

I'm merely on the sidelines, and it occurs to me, whilst either side likes to paint themselves as innocents, there's clearly some venom to both sides.

Be it DDOSing websites, Sending Milo some needles filled with a mystery liquid. Threatening people who call themselves journalists, or posting nudes of Zoe Quinn.

No I'm not. I am perfectly willing to accept the fact that the anti-gamer gate side could have done this. I just want a little proof first.

I believe the same thing. Which is why I want proof. They're both filled with assholes. Heck, how do we know the attack even had anything to do with gamergate? It could've just been some asshole who wanted to piss people off. Lord knows they'd be getting their wish.

 

[MathHamy]

Don't you dare flat out tell me you have no proof but I'm going against common sense for not swallowing your narrative like a mindless sheep! I thought gamer gate was about journalistic integrity, which included not jumping to conclusions and checking the facts. Does that not apply for you?

I would argue that the "common sense position" in this matter is precisely that the anti-GG opposition did this for the reasons I described in my post above. Mostly they want to scare people away from supporting GG, and especially they want to scare gaming websites from agreeing to GG's demands. They have the most to gain from such an attack. And we know for sure that they could have done it, they even DDoS'd TFYC before.

Again, if you find any point in my post at the top of page 9 disputable, then by all means dispute it. I think it's wrong to think of it as mindlessly believing a narrative, if the argument is valid and sound.

 

[Calbeck]

When one does not wish to believe a thing, one can readily demand absolute proof, secure in the knowledge that anything presented as proof can be argued to the Nth degree anyway.

When one wishes to believe a thing, the most nebulous of connections suffice to provide reinforcement.

 

[Erttheking]

Don't you dare flat out tell me you have no proof but I'm going against common sense for not swallowing your narrative like a mindless sheep! I thought gamer gate was about journalistic integrity, which included not jumping to conclusions and checking the facts. Does that not apply for you?

I would argue that the "common sense position" in this matter is precisely that the anti-GG opposition did this for the reasons I described in my post above. Mostly they want to scare people away from supporting GG, and especially they want to scare gaming websites from agreeing to GG's demands. They have the most to gain from such an attack. And we know for sure that they could have done it, they even DDoS's TFYC before.

Again, if you find any point in my post at the top of page 9 disputable, then by all means dispute it. I think it's wrong to think of it as mindlessly believing a narrative, if the argument is valid and sound.

No offense, I read your post and it is entirely speculation. Speculation is not what happened. I'm not going to change my opinion on a group for something I don't know that they did with 100% certainty. I am not taking sides in this clusterfuck unless those sides are based on solid facts. Too many rampant emotions have caused too many tears already for me to let myself fall into the same pitfall.

Heck, a good part of your argument hinges on the assumption that this attack even had anything to DO with Gamer Gate! Where's the evidence that it does? We've seen plenty of attacks on online games in the past done for laughs, why is this one automatically different?

 

[The Lunatic]

No I'm not. I am perfectly willing to accept the fact that the anti-gamer gate side could have done this. I just want a little proof first.

I believe the same thing. Which is why I want proof. They're both filled with assholes. Heck, how do we know the attack even had anything to do with gamergate? It could've just been some asshole who wanted to piss people off. Lord knows they'd be getting their wish.

Of course. You're never going to get the amount of proof you desire though.

And even if you did, there's those whom will simply twist it into supporting whatever narrative they choose to push.

When I suggested that it's against common sense, it was not a criticism. It was merely acknowledging that people will affect things with their own narratives.

We know the threads which were DDOS'd were the threads featuring GG discussion. Given one side is trying to shut down debate of such things, and have actively tried to censor users on twitter and other websites. It stands to reason, at least to me, they were likely the cause.

Whilst, yes, there are definitely some whom are willing to stir the pot and even "false flag", it seems more likely these people would aim for a site like Kotaku or something. Or even 4chan itself.

 

[Erttheking]

No I'm not. I am perfectly willing to accept the fact that the anti-gamer gate side could have done this. I just want a little proof first.

I believe the same thing. Which is why I want proof. They're both filled with assholes. Heck, how do we know the attack even had anything to do with gamergate? It could've just been some asshole who wanted to piss people off. Lord knows they'd be getting their wish.

Of course. You're never going to get the amount of proof you desire though.

And even if you did, there's those whom will simply twist it into supporting whatever narrative they choose to push.

When I suggested that it's against common sense, it was not a criticism. It was merely acknowledging that people will affect things with their own narratives.

We know the threads which were DDOS'd were the threads featuring GG discussion. Given one side is trying to shut down debate of such things, and have actively tried to censor users on twitter and other websites. It stands to reason, at least to me, they were likely the cause.

Whilst, yes, there are definitely some whom are willing to stir the pot and even "false flag", it seems more likely these people would aim for a site like Kotaku or something. Or even 4chan itself.

Well then the words "Anti-gamer gate people did it" are never coming out of my mouth with any sincerity. As far as I'm concerned, some random asshole did it for a laugh until I'm proven otherwise.

No I won't and I would appreciate it if you didn't make baseless accusations of me.

I don't appreciate being accused of twisting things to suit my own narrative. It's being intellectually dishonest, something I am very much against.

Maybe, maybe not. Unless we get some proof, we're never actually going to know now are we?

 

[Davroth]

It's hilarious to see people in here clamouring to rationalise this attack as something done by a third party... I finally understand.

Girl gets harassed online, all men [footnote]...and especially gamers, those misogynistic pigs! Gamers are dead![/footnote] are to blame[footnote]Kotaku said so too, it must be true![/footnote].

Some 'guys' [footnote]Actually a diverse group from men and women from all walks of life and many different nations[footnote]Kind of like the AC dev team.[/footnote][/footnote] get harassed online, it clearly was an inside job or a third party trying to stir up trouble.

Right, okay.


And as a side note, I love how people have started to champion 4chan as some kind of feminist Mecca now... I mean, have you ever been there? It's still just as full of the same filth as it has always been, it just censors one specific movement now. What a great ally they are.

I actually only expect one thing in all of this, some consistency. Either both sides get the benefit of the doubt, or neither does. Picking and choosing to believe in one movement's claims over the others is just expressing of personal bias. And it should be treated as such.

 

[Erttheking]

It's hilarious to see people in here clamouring to rationalise this attack as something done by a third party... I finally understand.

Girl gets harassed online, all men [footnote]...and especially gamers, those misogynistic pigs! Gamers are dead![/footnote] are to blame[footnote]Kotaku said so too, it must be true![/footnote].

Some 'guys' [footnote]Actually a diverse group from men and women from all walks of life and many different nations[footnote]Kind of like the AC dev team.[/footnote][/footnote] get harassed online, it clearly was an inside job or a third party trying to stir up trouble.

Right, okay.


And as a side note, I love how people have started to champion 4chan as some kind of feminist Mecca now... I mean, have you ever been there? It's still just as full of the same filth as it has always been, it just censors one specific movement now. What a great ally they are.

I actually only expect one thing in all of this, some consistency. Either both sides get the benefit of the doubt, or neither does. Picking and choosing to believe in one movement's claims over the others is just expressing of personal bias. And it should be treated as such.

If I had ever made the claim that all men were to blame, you would have had a point. I didn't, so you don't.

And frankly maybe anti-gamer gate really did do this. I have no idea who did it, that's the point I'm trying to make and I don't want to blindly dive into speculation in order to make a claim.

 

[The Lunatic]

Well then the words "Anti-gamer gate people did it" are never coming out of my mouth with any sincerity. As far as I'm concerned, some random asshole did it for a laugh until I'm proven otherwise.

No I won't and I would appreciate it if you didn't make baseless accusations of me.

I don't appreciate being accused of twisting things to suit my own narrative. It's being intellectually dishonest, something I am very much against.

Maybe, maybe not. Unless we get some proof, we're never actually going to know now are we?

I never accused you of anything. Simply speaking broadly.

There are people who do what I said. I never said you were one of them!