well, the the escapist was just attacked.

Calbeck

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Wandering_Hero said:
Links? Everywhere I go its being hushed up, with someone the anti gg site even trying to shut this side up
It's... right here on the Escapist. Like, at this moment, the thread above this one.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.860762-GamerGate-Discussion-Debate-and-Resources
 

Stats ^1

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Zontar said:
Stats ^1 said:
Just because you don't agree with my point, it doesn't stop me from being entirely right.
The problem with your statement is that you're entirely wrong, and there's no way to get around that. You haven't even tried to justify your head scratching attitude on this thread. I mean just look at it, it's what, half your posts you've ever made on this thread alone?

You came to this forum because of this controversy, and you've spent at least half your posts here complaining about it. I am absolutely sure that if GamerGate had never happened, you would have never registered an account here.
Oh look, someone trying to use post count as an argument.

Yes I would have made an account, I'm just unfortunate in that this shitty discussion as well as a swarm of petty feminist discussions destroyed the forums shortly after I made one.

And no, I'm not defending my point, I'm having to repeat it for every person which fails to grasp it and replies to me with a monolith of text about GG and zoe quinn, or just some insult (which the moderators look by because of clear bias).

This entire thread should just be locked anyway. If I look through about 3 pages, I can find about 10 posts which SHOULD be resulting in warnings or suspensions. No one is respectful on this thread, no one is having a healthy discussion, instead, people are just being nasty to one another, trying their damn hardest to be as passive aggressive as possible, because the forum rules promote it. For example, as I've seen in this thread, describing someone as a retard in a quote is fine, but outright calling someone a retard is unacceptable.
 

Stats ^1

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Calbeck said:
Stats ^1 said:
And there's nothing to disagree on. This thread SHOULD NOT exist. It should be part of the existing thread and discussion of the topic. There is no counter argument. "Flood the forums with replicated threads" is the same as saying "spam the forums"
If you believe this thread is a violation of the Escapist's terms of use (which it would be, if you were correct), then bring it up with the mods. Arguing with the OP does nothing more than extend the thread, something any veteran of Internet discourse should be familiar with by now.

That said, the DDoS attack is fresh news of a serious nature, identified as an attack on GamerGate threads by a co-founder of the Escapist. Even when you have an ongoing thread about a movement or controversy, the creation of a NEW controversy warrants a new thread specific to it.

If you cannot convince a mod that the OP is "spamming", then you simply have an opinion like everyone else and welcome to the Internet.
Standard forum etiquette on any website on the internet is that you search for an existing thread on the topic first before creating a new thread.
 

Ilovechocolatemilk

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Stats ^1 said:
This entire thread should just be locked anyway. If I look through about 3 pages, I can find about 10 posts which SHOULD be resulting in warnings or suspensions. No one is respectful on this thread, no one is having a healthy discussion, instead, people are just being nasty to one another, trying their damn hardest to be as passive aggressive as possible, because the forum rules promote it. For example, as I've seen in this thread, describing someone as a retard in a quote is fine, but outright calling someone a retard is unacceptable.
If people choose to make themselves look like idiots, let them do so. As long as they aren't advocating something horrible, like doxxing people or brigading them against a particular target, there's nothing inherently wrong with it.

The point of all arguments is not to convince the person you're arguing with. That rarely ever happens and requires a level of intellectual honesty on both sides. The point is convince the silent third party that you're right. If people make fools of themselves, it'll serve as a strong argument as to why they're wrong.
 

Exley97_v1legacy

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So I'm just checking this thread out now and haven't read through the previous dozen or so pages, but I curious what the consensus is around this DDoS attack. I'm guessing most folks believe either "SJWs" [in quotes because I loathe the term and its use] or even some game journalists were behind this. Am I correct in this assumption? And has there been any update about the nature of the attack and where it came from?
 

Calbeck

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Stats ^1 said:
Standard forum etiquette on any website on the internet is that you search for an existing thread on the topic first before creating a new thread.
And the other threads which specifically discuss the DDoS attack on the Escapist are where, again?
 

Akjosch

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Exley97 said:
So I'm just checking this thread out now and haven't read through the previous dozen or so pages, but I curious what the consensus is around this DDoS attack. I'm guessing most folks believe either "SJWs" [in quotes because I loathe the term and its use] or even some game journalists were behind this. Am I correct in this assumption? And has there been any update about the nature of the attack and where it came from?
What we know is that the attack was targeted at, and attempted to disrupt, the GamerGate discussion. That's all the fact we currently have, but I trust that the authorities are informed and investigating.

Sadly, these things take time - on the order of months, if not years.

There was also the case of strange appearances on the forum, like people's message count going into hundreds or even thousands without much of anything attached to it, or avatars missing, but this could easily be the result of the forum software or database giving in a bit under pressure. The hope is that these issues aren't somehow exploitable to actually hack the forums. Software works in mysterious ways sometimes (... and I'm a programmer since 30 years, so I should know. ;)).

Everything besides these points is idle speculation. Feel free to join in; I won't waste my time with it.
 

Exley97_v1legacy

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Akjosch said:
Exley97 said:
So I'm just checking this thread out now and haven't read through the previous dozen or so pages, but I curious what the consensus is around this DDoS attack. I'm guessing most folks believe either "SJWs" [in quotes because I loathe the term and its use] or even some game journalists were behind this. Am I correct in this assumption? And has there been any update about the nature of the attack and where it came from?
What we know is that the attack was targeted at, and attempted to disrupt, the GamerGate discussion. That's all the fact we currently have, but I trust that the authorities are informed and investigating.

Sadly, these things take time - on the order of months, if not years.

There was also the case of strange appearances on the forum, like people's message count going into hundreds or even thousands without much of anything attached to it, or avatars missing, but this could easily be the result of the forum software or database giving in a bit under pressure. The hope is that these issues aren't somehow exploitable to actually hack the forums. Software works in mysterious ways sometimes (... and I'm a programmer since 30 years, so I should know. ;)).

Everything besides these points is idle speculation. Feel free to join in; I won't waste my time with it.
Yeah, I'm not sure about the authorities investigating part. I don't mean to be insensitive, but the FBI typically doesn't investigate every DDoS attack (for many reasons, not the least of which being there are too many for the cybercrime division to keep up with) and when it does investigate, it usually limits its investigatory scope to government agenices or very large organizations. This is, of course, not to say that the Escapist doesn't matter, and I'm happy to be proven wrong. I'm merely saying, with knowledge of how law enforcement typically operates in these cases, I wouldn't hold your breath for a resolution.

That said, I would LOVE for the authorities to investigate and resolve this, for a variety of reasons starting with the context of the attack.

As for the software hack....more likely it's a forum software glitch or an unintended side effect of the Escapist IT team trying to stave off the DDoS attack and get the forum back online. If someone *did* find an exploit, I'm guessing he/she/they would have done a lot more than just run up the post counts and remove avatars.
 

Stats ^1

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Calbeck said:
Stats ^1 said:
Standard forum etiquette on any website on the internet is that you search for an existing thread on the topic first before creating a new thread.
And the other threads which specifically discuss the DDoS attack on the Escapist are where, again?
The big thread. So this discussion is closed now. No one has anything more to say.
 

Akjosch

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Exley97 said:
As for the software hack....more likely it's a forum software glitch or an unintended side effect of the Escapist IT team trying to stave off the DDoS attack and get the forum back online. If someone *did* find an exploit, I'm guessing he/she/they would have done a lot more than just run up the post counts and remove avatars.
That's not how such hacking works.

What generally happens is that you see a software doing unexpected things and go "Huh. Strange. I wonder if I can reproduce it." After that, it's a matter of trying exactly that (we had a quick flare of the same strange behaviour 18 hours ago as of this writing) and, if possible, to acquire the software, replicate the environment it's running under and see what happens on the database and process level. If you don't or can't replicate the software, you keep probing, though at a significantly lower intensity level so as to not attract any attention.

From there, if you find even one buffer overflow or underflow, even one SQL statement not being properly escaped, even one concurrent modification or race condition situation, you concentrate on that problem. So far in the history of the internet, every single one lead to being able to execute arbitrary (i.e., the hacker's) code on the system running the software. The methods to derive a working exploit from a specific kind of problem are both well-understood and well-documented, since security researchers and engineers need to know about them as much (if not more) than black-hat hackers.

If someone found an exploit, or at least a single bug which can lead to the exploit, don't expect them to use them right away either; or at least not in any visible way. Those things can bring in quite the money on the "market", as can leaked user data.

So ... let's hope those "glitches" were just side-effects of the tech staff doing their jobs. The alternative is way more insidious.
 

Calbeck

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Stats ^1 said:
Calbeck said:
Stats ^1 said:
Standard forum etiquette on any website on the internet is that you search for an existing thread on the topic first before creating a new thread.
And the other threads which specifically discuss the DDoS attack on the Escapist are where, again?
The big thread. So this discussion is closed now. No one has anything more to say.
So your position is that ALL GG-related discussion should and must be relegated to the single megathread, including specific news about The Escapist being DDoSed?

How do you feel about the other GG-related threads currently active outside the megathread --- specifically, the ones started by professed anti-GG posters? How is it that you could possibly have missed the chance to walk into those threads, declare them "over", and demand they refer all further discussion to the megathread?

Also, when exactly did you think you'd been appointed site staff, to declare ANY discussion "closed"?

Welp, reported for harassment. You don't get to badger other people into shutting down discourse.
 

ChaoGuy2006

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Welp. I picked the wrong 10 days to go on holiday.

In any case, a lot of the 4channers who are working on Gamergate have moved (and are all still together, so that's good). I hope you guys recovered well. Don't let them grind you down. Fight for good vidya, good critique, and good journalism.
 

Exley97_v1legacy

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Calbeck said:
Stats ^1 said:
Calbeck said:
Stats ^1 said:
Standard forum etiquette on any website on the internet is that you search for an existing thread on the topic first before creating a new thread.
And the other threads which specifically discuss the DDoS attack on the Escapist are where, again?
The big thread. So this discussion is closed now. No one has anything more to say.
So your position is that ALL GG-related discussion should and must be relegated to the single megathread, including specific news about The Escapist being DDoSed?

How do you feel about the other GG-related threads currently active outside the megathread --- specifically, the ones started by professed anti-GG posters? How is it that you could possibly have missed the chance to walk into those threads, declare them "over", and demand they refer all further discussion to the megathread?

Also, when exactly did you think you'd been appointed site staff, to declare ANY discussion "closed"?

Welp, reported for harassment. You don't get to badger other people into shutting down discourse.
Wait, hold on -- you reported him for harrassment? Don't you think that's a little....excessive, to put it mildly?*

*please don't report/flag me for asking the question, thank you.
 

Zeraki

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You know at this point I don't care who is on what side, I'm just tired of getting caught in the shit flinging crossfire of whatever is the controversy of the month.

If I wasn't annoyed at the possibility that my account information could have been compromised over this fiasco I want no part in, I'd probably be laughing at how silly it has gotten. It's like being in high school all over again.
 

Calbeck

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Exley97 said:
Wait, hold on -- you reported him for harrassment? Don't you think that's a little....excessive, to put it mildly?
"So this discussion is closed now."

That's excessive. If you look back, it's also not a throwaway --- he's been pushing for the thread to be shut down from the beginning, because he personally thinks anything GG-related (except for threads started by anti-GG posters) needs to move to the megathread.

Yes, I'd call that harassment. It's a call to selectively silence discussion of events he personally doesn't want to see discussed outside a thread which is already over 220 pages.
 

Falling_v1legacy

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runic knight said:
Here is where I have to jump in and actually stop this train of thought, since you skipped a step. You have to demonstrate that hateful comments, even ones that use sexually identifying slurs, are actually fueled by a hatred of women. This is sort of a big part of the contention, actually.

See, I have glasses. And if I piss someone off, they might make an insult based on that fact. Now them mentioning it doesn't mean they hate glasses or people with glasses, just that they are dicks and grabbed at whatever they saw as a point I may get offended by.

Thus the comments about Zoe or Anita or whoever are not demonstrated as misogynistic, and are instead assumed and repeated as such. Ironically, the sort of defense against misogyny sends a message to people who want to insult her that her gender is a point of weakness and thus they tend to make reference to it more.
@runic
Glad we have agreements on some parts.
re: me needing to demonstrate that the comments necessarily means that the commenters are misogynist.
I don't really think so, because I would I would have to double check my own comment, but I'm pretty sure I did not claim they were misogynist. I said that many comments were sexist and that they harassed. In another time and place, I might have made the extra conclusion, but I'm kind of tired of the same argument circles, and so did not. I don't really feel like proving whether they are misogynist or not (I very carefully did not even use that word.) But there were many hateful comments, and that is sufficiently bad to say there was (and maybe still is) a significant contingent people saying those sorts of things. Motivation doesn't really matter, although I am pretty sure their motivation was not complementary or kindly in any way, shape, or form. Quite the opposite, actually. It was not just a handful of individuals or it would not have blown up this big, I do not think.

you must compare the response she got with the backlash people who reported on the issue got, such as Mundanematt, IA or even later arrivals like Jaydfox. You will see the level of hate and bile thrown their way is equivalent, only they do not get the media reporting on it or spend the excessive amount of time pointing to it and then to their back account link.
Tbh, I have not seen the backlash. I have not gone to see what sort of things 4chan or tumblr were saying. My judgement was and is largely based on the behaviour of Escapist forum posters- all the conspiracy theories posted on these forums. An anti might post some links that I'll read. Or a pro will post a youtube of their side, and then discover wait, you are bringing this white nationalist guy up in defence of your cause? This might be a large gap in my understanding of the problem because I'm not seeing anti-SJW's, but I'm not so sure. Escapist has started sounding like the central headquarters or at the very least a bastion of the pro-GG side. If anything, I ought to be inocculated against the 'anti-GG' side because I'm really only hearing the controversy from the pro-GG side. I don't think there are legit tumblr SJW's on here, unless the line got drawn for them (cue Jim's, well then give me a hammer, I guess.) But I got turned off from the whole thing at the beginning based on the 'pro' side alone. I'm certainly not 'anti-GG' as such. But I am anti-crappy posting, anti-conspirarcy theories, anti-harassment, and I am suspicious about why it blew up around Quin and not around over-reaching corporatism.

I'll agree that you can do that with a small amount of people, yes. Though that fact alone tells us nothing about the motivations, alliances or ideology about them. Or, for that matter, even their size, as it only adds to possibilities, it doesn't actually remove any.
I'm 100% with you on this. Possibilites are added, none are removed as suspects. But until we know, I do not think it is appropriate to assume guilt, then denounce based on that assumption. (As we saw on the very first page of this thread- again, I am consistently judging what I see on Escapist.)

I don't think it is an assocation fallacy. I am not saying because a large group are terrible posters, the entire group are as well. I am saying there was (maybe still is) a significant group within your composition. A is a part of B. And A was pretty big. (Or at least visible and loud.) Too big.
I don't think its mockery to decry conspiracy- there were people legitmately believing that Quinn held sway over reddit admins and far more. Every time someone came out against the hateful comments, people were wondering 'how deep does this go?'

Now it might be that tumblr has a large group of C a part of D, and C is very big. But I don't hang out in D (tumblr), so I cannot plead for moderation among D against C. I do hang out in Escapist, so I plead for moderation here. If a bunch of tumblr-ites jumped in here and spewed bile in these forums when I am reading, I'll join in denouncing, certainly.
 

000Ronald

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So apparently, the Destiny and Call of Duty; Ghosts servers were taken offline at the same time as The Escapist Forums, [http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Destiny-Call-Duty-Ghosts-Taken-Offline-By-Hackers-67420.html] courtesy a group called The Lizard Squad, who I know nothing about. Haven't seen anything about it in The Newsroom, so I thought I'd mention it here.

Does anyone know anything about these guys?
 

CrazyCapnMorgan

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000Ronald said:
So apparently, the Destiny and Call of Duty; Ghosts servers were taken offline at the same time as The Escapist Forums, [http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Destiny-Call-Duty-Ghosts-Taken-Offline-By-Hackers-67420.html] courtesy a group called The Lizard Squad, who I know nothing about. Haven't seen anything about it in The Newsroom, so I thought I'd mention it here.

Does anyone know anything about these guys?
The Lizard Squad were a group of people who got a plane flight diverted because of a bomb threat, and I believe Sony's CEO was on board that plane. If not the CEO, then another high-ranking Sony official.

These people are known, because of that incident (which saw a member or two apprehended), to cause trouble for the shit of it.

If what you, and by extension cinemablend, claim is true, then it wouldn't surprise me any. Attacking The Escapist at that time would prove beneficial to them as the recent events involving staff of The Escapist would deflect attention to other groups or individuals, as was the case for me.
 
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Yeahh.. so the sjw are lizardmen? So the illuminati-reptilian-plan is true...
I will need to get aluminium foil..


Yeah serious, SOME GG-people tend to have a tendency for premature Accusiculation. Maybe stopping thinking we know who 'THE CULPRIT (for gg its the sjw, for those(i never met them. Where are they?)is vice versa..) and just WAITING until there is definite proof?
(And no: thread xyz was attacked so it has to be the anti xyz-crowd that people assume exist and define their opponents as part of HAS TO BE IT.


Even the ffin taliban or hamas say when they did shit.