well, the the escapist was just attacked.

[Thorn14]

Everyone is. If the #GG thread at Neogaf (strongly anti-GG) had been DDOS people there would be blaming #GG

 

[Exley97_v1legacy]

Wait, hold on -- you reported him for harrassment? Don't you think that's a little....excessive, to put it mildly?

"So this discussion is closed now."

That's excessive. If you look back, it's also not a throwaway --- he's been pushing for the thread to be shut down from the beginning, because he personally thinks anything GG-related (except for threads started by anti-GG posters) needs to move to the megathread.

Yes, I'd call that harassment. It's a call to selectively silence discussion of events he personally doesn't want to see discussed outside a thread which is already over 220 pages.

Okay, but....he CAN'T silence you. Unless he's a moderator, then he doesn't have that control. So who cares if he's shooting his mouth off? Dude, that's TROLLING. And even if he did have that control to lock or move this thread....how can you describe those actions as harassment after the crap we've seen around this issue over the last two months?

I think, for the benefit of any GG-related topic, it might be worth having a baseline understanding and/or generally accepted definition of the word harassment. Because honestly, this hyperbole isn't helping to foster a civil, informed discussion.

 

[Jux]

How do I use myself as a shield? The entire point of a shield is for you to not take hits.

How was I unclear? You accuse of 'SJWs' using minorities as a shield against criticism, I'm saying you're using the same shield yourself, accusing people that are against gg as supporting a racist status quo.

And the social justice principles? Tumblr has principles? Social media, somehow, has a rule book? Really? I don't go to social media for news on equality, the NCAAP and NCLR are for that.

That you automatically assume 'tumblr' when someone says 'social justice' speaks volumes.

SJWs are by definition people who promise diversity but never deliver or someone who superficially uses it for fame. And they never will deliver because the constant promises benefit them. It became obvious when they refused to work with academia. The entire idea is that oppression will always be around so they should use it to their advantage.

One of many definitions from what I've seen. In any case, what you're basically doing is putting a label on someone based on intention. Which hey, if you want to do that, I can't stop you, but I'm going to ask for evidence that their intentions are false, which is a pretty hard standard to meet.

And I reject that. Teaching people how to live with oppression is perpetuating the problem rather than ending it.

I'm not suggesting anyone learns to live with oppression.

I have chosen to pursue diversity by joining the boycott. It has become obvious they won't actually introduce real diversity until monetary incentives are added. It has become obvious for diversity and ethics to happen in games journalism is to hurt their pocket books. That lip service and hate won't be accepted anymore.

Who is 'they'? Who is being boycotted? Publishers? Devs? If you want diversity in gaming, boycotting review sites and 'games journalists' (not sure how you boycott a journalist if they aren't selling you anything) isn't going to get the job done. So is gg about diversity now? Or is that just a personal goal? I keep hearing that gg was about journalism ethics, has that changed again?

Thats how it relates. Because until they actually do something they are just in the way. Especially if they view established civil rights groups as evil.

And they are also in the way of ethics because social media bullshit for friends trumps rules.

I'm tryin to follow you here man, but you're all over the place. Who is even the leaders of gg? What are ya'lls stated goals at this point?

 

[Jux]

And you comment on the day where a journalist was caught equating all muslims to ISIS on a stream and how there isn't racism.

Nice work. Totally great timing.

And? If he's being racist, he should rightly be called out for being racist. That has zero to do with what I said though.

It got famous on tumblr and its where it got its full start. On facebook the only thing you really have is the "like for water" bullshit whenever someone makes a post about Africa. With Tumblr's fame and relative seclusion it allowed these little pissing contests to fester since you can set up echo chambers pretty easily.

Social justice has been around a hell of a lot longer than tumblr. If tumblr is your only exposure to the social justice movement, that's pretty sad.

The stream was the final proof that games journalism is far too preoccupied with impressing friends than actual diversity.

Out of all games journalists, how many identify as social justice advocates?

No one for justice would equate all muslims to ISIS. No one for justice would be praising ISIS at all or comparing first world problems to third world. No one for justice would call for violence against black men for oogling white women and then have their friends retweet it.

I agree, though I fail to see how this is some indication of a broader trend.

No one would be questioning harassment and believing only friends. No one should be questioning race just because they disagree.

The proof has all been there that these people don't care. That their friends don't care. Its blatant.

If you want to call out individuals when you see it, by all means, do it. It should be done. I'll do it too. But if you want to present this as some problem endemic with 'games journalism', you need to show that now only is this a trend, but if you want to link it to how they do their jobs, show that racism is affecting how they do their reviews or reporting. On top of that, if you're going to make it a 'SJW' thing, you need to show they're self professed social justice advocates.

Gamergate has no leader. Its a loose congregation of pissed off customers for various reasons.

1. They don't like being lied to and cheated out of 60$ with fake reviews then blamed when that "evil game" sells well.

2. They don't like being insulted, and have racist comments made about them so someone can impress their friends.

3. They don't like Journalists stifling progress because of friendships with black outs. Some devs came out and said they were forced to donate through patreon. Boogie came out and said that they have been shouting him down. A black dev was canned and has been slandered for not agreeing with a white woman.

4. They are sick of the homogenous people in the games press. The lack of diversity that allowed this to happen.

5. They are disgusted with journalists using their friends to scam people out of money.

Gamergate started out as Journalistic ethics but has now expanded to racial diversity and outrage over comments made and attitudes held by games journalists weeks ago.

and boycotts do work. We have been a boycott since Adam Baldwin came along. Thats why all our links are mirror so no ad revenue.

RPS has taken a huge hit and is still nosediving. Polygon took a huge hit. Gamasutra's traffic loss is terminal at this point. Its been dropping with no sign of stopping.

Kotaku lost a sponsor who said they refuse to work with Kotaku again. Polygon lost a sponsor. Gamasutra lost a sponsor.

We are boycotting sponsors, and not visiting sites to deprive them of ad revenue. And its been working.

These journalists have been brow beating devs, and using their connections to blackball them. If we want progress and real diversity then we need these people out. Peace is out of the question since they walked out of TB's peace negotiation. Why? because they would need to get rid of Patreon donations.

An Indie market can only flourish if these people can't brow beat them into line.

As it is, the game developers have a huge diversity problem, not gamers. Games journalists have a diversity problem, not gamers. Neither can change until these journalists are gone.

hell, Blacks and Hispanics log in more game time than anyone. yet no one wants to see that.

These people have no problem running minorities out of the industry that is already hurting for diversity. They are hurting the industry with their little friendship club and stopping minorities from joining the industry.

They aren't here to help, they are here to complain and look good doing it.

Getting tired of breaking quotes down, so I'm just gonna lump the rest here. Look, if you personally want diversity in gaming and better ethics in journalism, more power to you. However, I can't support a movement born out of a slut shaming witch hunt, no matter what their self professed goals are. There is just too much dirty laundry attached to ya'll at this point. I'm seeing a lot of accusations tossed out here about 'being forced to donate' and 'canned and slandered', but as far as I can see, this is hearsay, so pardon me if I'm not willing to simply take you at your word that all of this is true.

And before you say 'It's all in the gamergate thread, just go look', stop. I'm not digging through a multi hundred page thread to hunt down sources for your claims. If you want to make these sorts of claims, do yourself a favor and just link relevant information in the post you make the claim so we can avoid that.

 

[Exley97_v1legacy]

Here are the loss of sponsors:

https://twitter.com/TripleSK7/status/509105586990878720

https://twitter.com/ANDREW_KILROY/status/510157904847306752

Hold up, I'm a little confused. Wasn't Unilever one of the original advertising partners that helped create Polygon? And yet according to that email, Sue Garrard, who is a real person and serves as the senior vice president of communications at the company, says they've "used Polygon in the recent past" and "only used them on a one-off basis"? Well, that's entirely false. Unilever did a whole lot more than just buy ads on a one-off basis with Polygon. They were a founding sponsor of the site.

Either she is mischaracterizing Unilever's relationship with Polygon -- badly -- or this email is fake.

 

[Jux]

social justice wasn't coined to mean civil rights or equality. Social justice is a different word used to describe what I just said. Social justice hates academia, and hates any established civil rights group because its not based on personal feelings.

You might want to stop right there. Where are you even getting these definitions and notions? If you want a basic outline of what social justice is and where it's roots are, you can look at the Wikipedia page [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice]. But if you want a tl;dr, social justice is primarily concerned with correcting issues of social privilege, wealth inequality, and equality of opportunity.

Of the ones within the scandal? A shit load. Gamasutra, polygon, RPS, Ars technica, the list goes on. These are major sites in gaming. They have pull. They should not be getting away with this.

Not sure what this is an answer to, but if you're answering this:

Out of all games journalists, how many identify as social justice advocates?

What you're doing right now is naming websites, not journalists.

And they did pull out of the roundtable for peace:

'For peace'? Is there a war going on that I wasn't aware of?

And Developers and Journalists have spoken out, we have a direct link to the entire list post + other evidence:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.860762-GamerGate-Discussion-Debate-and-Resources#21397742

Link one has nothing to do with games journalists brow beating devs or racism, unless you count accusations of racist undertones in this guys book. [http://www.littletinyfrogs.com/article/457741/GamerGatethe_free_ride_is_over]
Link two has nothing to do with games journalists brow beating devs or racism, so far as I can see[/url.
Nothing in the third link either about browbeating devs or racism [http://www.littletinyfrogs.com/article/457868/Gamergate_Escalates].
Fourth links only connection to racism appears to be a tweet from Chuck Jordan, who I didn't even know until I wiki'd his name. [http://rpgfanashton.tumblr.com/post/96720124203/gamers-are-not-dead-they-just-leveled-up]
Fifth link, no accusations of racism or browbeating devs [http://revuelabs.com/2014/08/25/who-the-fk-is-zoe-quinn/].
Still looking for browbeating by devs or racism [http://daemonpro.tumblr.com/post/97625002839/a-personal-statement-from-an-indie-dev-on-why].
Still no specific accusations. The closest one came was this: [http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Stardock-CEO-League-Legends-Devs-Others-Support-GamerGate-67327-p2.html]

Spoiler

?Today we are on a crossroad. Direction A means w, [sic] as indie developers commit ourselves to censorship and Direction B means we keep our ?artistic freedom.? I was expecting the very same people from the movie to push events in Direction B?s favor but now one of them agrees that gamers are dead, one of them whines and acts like a toddler and others keep radio silence.

?So yes, I feel sorry for indie scene. Today the indie scene is betrayed and raided by clueless people.?

Nothing here either. Ethics policy piece. [http://theralphretort.com/industry-insider-slams-unethical-media-over-gamergate/]
A twitter feed, not even directing me to a relevant post. [https://twitter.com/Oliverbcampbell]
More of the same [https://twitter.com/Revuemage].
Softball interview with a Microsoft employee, nothing about racism or browbeating here either [http://www.nichegamer.net/2014/09/gamergate-interview-anonymous-xbox-edition/].
The closest thing yet. Rakan Almekhaizeem speaks about being worried that he'll get viewed negatively because he's a Muslim and an Arab, though no accusations that there was any sort of browbeating or racism directed at him by these journalists. And some Anonymous devs voicing concern over being blackballed by the industry if they come out in favor of GG, though no explanations are given why [http://www.nichegamer.net/2014/09/real-gamedevs-sound-off-regarding-the-gamergate-controversy/].
Another interview, and more of nothing [http://techraptor.net/2014/09/22/fire-away-interview-captain-brad-wardell-ceo-founder-stardock-corporation/].

If this is your evidence of systematic racism in the games journalism industry, or evidence that developers are getting browbeaten into not speaking, I have to say, this is lackluster.

And devs were harassed for it. There is another famous one but I can't remember the name of his vlog. They fired him too for speaking out.:

https://twitter.com/BlackTridentTV/status/513815088910716928

Doxxing is wrong, no issue there, but this still isn't an issue of journalists being racist or blackballing anyone, unless you intend to prove it was a journalist that called his work to try and get him fired.

https://twitter.com/j_millerworks (creator of not your shield, was fired and harassed in real life)

Why are you just linking a twitter feed?

http://techraptor.net/2014/09/12/interview-daniel-vavra/

The only relevant part is:

Spoiler

When you look at the moral standards of some of those people. When you see them calling respected people with different opinions ?Faded crackheads, shitlords and misogynistic basement neckbeards?. When you see that one of the biggest gaming sites (Polygon) has a blacklist of people they don?t like to hear from, what would you expect? Many people also don?t go deep into the issue and they make an opinion just based on the hysteric reaction to anonymous threats, while the whole thing is about something absolutely different.
Yes I do think that some of the journalist will not like me and our game. I believe that some people may start thinking that I support people who hate women even though I absolutely do not. I may lose some friends. But I think that fighting for freedom of speech and artistic freedom is very important. And I think that some of journalists just crossed the line and somebody should say that.
Leigh Alexander, who writes for several mainstream magazines, has a PR agency at the same time while she is an editor at Gamasutra and threatens people that ?She is a megaphone that could destroy them? and says that Adam Baldwin is a ?washed up crackhead?. WTF is that? How could she still have a job? And that same person is teaching us about ethics and writing articles about childish misogynistic basement trolls? Give me a break!

Again, an interview with zero evidence.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/i+plan+to+buy+all+of+his+games+let+s+show_729ef9_5289240.png

A screen capture of a tweet, with the guy saying he's worried he's been blackballed. No evidence of such actually happening.

Here are the loss of sponsors:

https://twitter.com/TripleSK7/status/509105586990878720

https://twitter.com/ANDREW_KILROY/status/510157904847306752

What does this have to do with anything?

Here is the minutes of DIGRA 2014, who are tied to the journalists in the middle of this scandal. Hatred of academia and peer review. All paid for by taxpayers.

http://pastebin.com/X46rkJJu

This is what they push. This is why I called it insane. No civil rights advocate would ever want colleges and peer review gone. Civil rights relies on academia. Feminism relies on academia.

But these people don't. Thats a clear difference.

Are you going to quote the relevant bits, or do I need to slog through all of that only to come up empty handed like that goose chase you just sent me on?

And the final thing:

things may start bad but can end up to be good in the long run.

Civil Rights was born from a time of violence, but no one hates the NAACP or NCLR for it.
No one hates them for what la Raza and the Black panthers did.

The Gaming industry collapsed in the 1980s, but no one blames the modern industry for it.

If you aren't willing to make a change for the better because you didn't like how something started, then we wouldn't have the world as we have it today.

You can't dictate what happens in life, you can only roll with the punches and make the best of it.

And using this rage to end racism, and corruption is the best of it.

If you don't put in the effort, nothing will change. This won't come around again.

I can push for ethical journalism and diversity in gaming without hitching my name to such a movement, thanks.

 

[Something Amyss]

There's been talking about it on The Young Turks, actually.

TYT brings up gaming topics now and again anyway. At least one of the regulars is a gamer. Or maybe hates the term but loves games.

and just because i don;t subscribe to the postmodernist linguistics style of definition, and reject the notions of relative truths in language doesn't make my beliefs backwards

No, the fact that you have it literally backwards as to how language develops, how it actually works in the real world, that's what makes your beliefs backwards. Don't put words in my mouth. There's nothing postmodern about the way language has worked through recorded history. The use of words changes with the public, which is why no authority ever knocked on Shakespeare's door to have a word with him.

 

[sageoftruth]

So can someone tell me what it was exactly? Have I had all my info taken or what? I had my facebook, steam and something else linked on my profile, does this mean it's all taken and I have to redo it all? Or was it just a simple DDOS? Since there's mixed answers on this thread.

No one knows. All people know is that the Gamergate thread was the one most attacked. People right now are jumping to conclusions to fit their agendas. I'd give it a day or two before having any meaningful answers. Chances are anything discovered today will be just speculation backed by paranoia.

Sounds appropriate. All right then. Back to my games.

 

[Krispness]

Well, I've been away for awhile and shit most certainly went down. Sad to see the escapist attacked, it has clearly been quite level headed throughout the entire thing. It allowed users to give their opinions on the forums and content creators to give their opinion on social media, even though they opposed each other and lead to insults between them at times. Most of all All Archon did was write out facts, allowed both sides to have their say and admit there's nothing wrong with having moral guidelines that every other media tries to uphold.

 

[AetherWolf]

Honestly, I'm just laughing so hard right now at everyone reactions in this thread. Along with all these crybabies labeling literally anything anyone remotely against GG as "censorship" because they don't like how everyone else is just fed up with their cosmic-level temper tantrums and is just trying to put an end to their harassment campaigns that target very specific people. (You can try to correct me with "b-b-b-but we're just going after corrupt journalists! m-muh journalistic integrity! censorship! sjws!" but it's awfully apparent that GGers just want to take down anyone in the industry with more than a few hundred twitter followers that aren't actively anti-feminist.) Apparently getting called out for bad behavior is "censoring free speech" now? Okay, whatever. Go back to your super secret gaming clubhouse where you kids whine about how the big bad evul feminists are out to ruin your video games. Just keep all your screaming down, it's giving the rest of us a headache. :3c

you need to drastically reappraise what's actually going on.

maybe this might make you step down off your high horse and actually look around;

https://twitter.com/GGfeminist/status/514238397653590016/photo/1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjdiC2ednok

and ddosing a major commercial website is not anyone "getting called out for bad behaviour" rather it's a Federal crime and you can be damn sure it is being pursued as such.

Ahaha. Someone sure got a taste of their own medicine, didn't they?

https://twitter.com/theMirai/status/513071441206456322

 

[Notshauna]

Watching #GamerGate and 4chan race each other to the Party Van is probably the single most fitting way this whole debacle could end.

In the end no one will be partying, the longer this shit goes on the more we lose. I mean for fucks sake the best case scenario is that we'll make a fool of ourselves to the media or we lose part of our media. It's clear that there won't be a happy ending here, all this shit storm is doing is obscuring shady shit in the industry, with both the Sims 4 and Destiny both failing to get anywhere near the coverage they earned with their bullshit. Hell EA could actually kill someone and they'd still get less coverage than gamergate. No matter who 'wins' gamers lose, I just wish that both sides could see that.

 

[Fox12]

Watching #GamerGate and 4chan race each other to the Party Van is probably the single most fitting way this whole debacle could end.

In the end no one will be partying, the longer this shit goes on the more we lose. I mean for fucks sake the best case scenario is that we'll make a fool of ourselves to the media or we lose part of our media. It's clear that there won't be a happy ending here, all this shit storm is doing is obscuring shady shit in the industry, with both the Sims 4 and Destiny both failing to get anywhere near the coverage they earned with their bullshit. Hell EA could actually kill someone and they'd still get less coverage than gamergate. No matter who 'wins' gamers lose, I just wish that both sides could see that.

Much is lost in civil war.

I don't know, what's the aim here? It was transparency in journalism, but now both sides are so entrenched that the only outcome is the eventual death of one or the other. There have been positive results, such as on the escapist, but everywhere else is a mine field. Then the escapist, the only level headed site, gets a dds attack, which of course fans the flames of war and keeps the whole thing going. I think the whole thing will pass in time, but this is one of the ugliest scandals I've seen in a long time. It doesn't help that the industry "professionals" are just as bad as the trolls.