We're Going to Be Rich!

Vzzdak

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Just because a game is an MMO does not automatically make it a good game. I'm preaching to the choir here, but the basics for a fun MMO game are:

1) Is it fun to play?
2) Is it fun to play solo?
3) Are there convenient tools for organizing groups?
4) Is there interesting new content being introduced to justify staying with the game?


Negatives would be:

A) In order to enjoy the game, you need to prepare your character in a manner that amounts to a part-time job.
B) In order to appeal to more potential players, all challenge is stripped out of the game mechanics.
C) PvP tacked on per Sale's insistence that they need a bullet point to help sell the game, rather than having PvP fleshed out as (again) something fun to play.

A fun game is its own reason for making a purchase and continuing to play. All else is twaddle, or mostly twaddle.
 

Sniper Team 4

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I still think that Arrival trailer they showed was pretty cool. I wouldn't mind if they just made a movie like that.

But yeah, I'm not too thrilled about a MMO Elder Scrolls. I think Skyrim might be fun if it had co op, but a full blown MMO that you have to pay for...I don't know.
 

faefrost

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Dr.Awkward said:
You know, despite how many developers go after WoW's model when making a MMO, they completely miss other successful concepts such as Minecraft because they don't see it as a MMO.

They would if they stop defining the word "Massive" as "an adjective describing the number of players that play on official servers". Kill the whole of this mindset and replace it with something more financially manageable, and soon we'll be seeing MMOs going in unique places.
The problem is they think they are chasing WoW's model, but really aren't. WoW worked because Blizzard was not a single player RPG maker. Their primary games were Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo. Battle.net gave them a huge understanding of infrastructure, balance, and the evil that are players. They weren't there to so much tell a story as build a wellbalanced compelling game environment. Then they layered some story and characters on over that. Whereas SW:TOR and ESO? They seemingly approach it from the wrong angle. Heck Bioware was the best RPG maker in the business. But it was meaningless because they had no infrastructure experience. No progressive end game experience. No experience dealing with live players in real time. Bethesda will be the same thing.

Making RTS games is probably one of the more perfect starting points for making an MMO. FPS's would probably not be too bad to start from. Even turn based strategy games. But starting from an experience base of RPG's? Ugh! Why not just hire the Angry Bird devs to make a MMO?
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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BlindChance said:
It is a testimony to the very cycle you're describing here that even though you were discussing Elder Scrolls, my first thought was, "Oh, he's talking about SWTOR." It works just as well.
I think that's his point. As they say, those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. Everyone keeps looking at WoW and saying "We'll make millions!" but no one actually looks at the dozens of attempts at making a game to cash-in on WoW's success and says "But we need to make sure not to do what they did." This story could easily be applied to just about any MMO that's been released in the past half-decade or so.
 

PainInTheAssInternet

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Dec 30, 2011
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?we came in?

Other people seem to think that this is an allegory for the upcoming Elder Scrolls Online game (that I've somehow managed to remain clueless about), so I'll take them at their word.

How would this work? ES games seem tailor-made for single player. Then again, I'm not a video game developer or planner of any sort.

EDIT: I just had another thought. Bethesda can't craft a stable system for a single-player game. How can they possibly be able to code for a MMO?

Isn't this where...
 

Nikita Pronin

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wow this site loves bashing eso! its a good game just wait for the nda to come down! there will also be an open beta! idn man i hope no one from the escapist plays it, that way i dont have to put up with this in game!
 

Frozengale

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Funnily enough right after this article went up I received an e-mail about doing another round of beta testing for ESO. And I'm just sitting here wondering if I want to participate. Every single time I beta test that game I can't help but feel like my time would be better served just playing Skyrim.
 

ZippyDSMlee

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I tend to hate MMOs to much grinding and not uniqueness in abilities and gear its too much you are just another cubicle drone for me most of the time.
 

Yagami_Kira

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PainInTheAssInternet said:
?we came in?

Other people seem to think that this is an allegory for the upcoming Elder Scrolls Online game (that I've somehow managed to remain clueless about), so I'll take them at their word.

How would this work? ES games seem tailor-made for single player. Then again, I'm not a video game developer or planner of any sort.

EDIT: I just had another thought. Bethesda can't craft a stable system for a single-player game. How can they possibly be able to code for a MMO?

Isn't this where...
Bethesda has nothing to do with ESO. Its being made by zenimax online, which is the head dude from dork age of camealot, and a bunch of cut rates paid to cludge together a quick money grab, while simultaneously take a dump on the lore.
 

Kieve

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Nikita Pronin said:
wow this site loves bashing eso! its a good game just wait for the nda to come down! there will also be an open beta! idn man i hope no one from the escapist plays it, that way i dont have to put up with this in game!
Bad news there bub, I've played the last two closed betas so far. The NDA can only protect the game from so much backlash, and while they're close to being an Elder Scrolls game, in many respects, there's simply too much lost in the "MMO Translation" for it to succeed. Some of the problems are core to the game's premise, some are compromises Zeni made "because it's an MMO," forgetting that games define their genres, not the other way around.

But that's neither here nor there - this isn't ESO specific, it's about the cycle of stupidity that encourages publishers and developers to think cashing in big-name franchises is a gold mine, when in fact it's more like a money pit.
 

Darkness665

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This tracks very well to many items in either the software and hardware industries. The magic number is almost always 'even if we only get half' of the baseline is that somehow copying it will enable riches to pour in. The normal result is somewhat environmentally specific, no body is going to buy your OS, word processor, photo markup, iPod/iPhone/iPad/Walkman replacement as it is not the original nor is it as good.

That the MMO venture finally devolves into F2P adds the perfect pitch to it. Many in the game industry look with lust at the horrible mobile games that force/entice underfunded players to continue to spend money on a not so free to play app. They objectify it, vilify it and do their best to copy it. All because 'We Are Going To Be Rich'. Right. And you are the next Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and the list is never ending. But it never does include them.
 

Dalisclock

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BrotherRool said:
People always want their single-player games to be turned into MMOs because they want the world to feel more real.

And then they play the new game and realise that MMOs are nothing like that
I've never seen an MMO that draws me in more then a similar single player game.

Hell, I can think of a couple I'd play if they were actually single player*CoughTheSecretWorldCough*.
 

Lil_Rimmy

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Nikita Pronin said:
wow this site loves bashing eso! its a good game just wait for the nda to come down! there will also be an open beta! idn man i hope no one from the escapist plays it, that way i dont have to put up with this in game!
I'm sorry you aren't paying attention to the facts, but seriously mate, I love the Elder Scrolls. This game is not it. It is a horrible rip off MMO, made purely for money. Buy the game for 80! Or 100! If you want to actually play as a certain race, screw with the lore and get bonuses, just pay us $120! What's that, you like the game? Now you need to pay us $20 a month to play it! We never said anything at all about having a subscription so there are no paywalls - say have you heard about the Imperial Edition?

It's just a horrible cash grab with bad graphics, bad gameplay and boring quests. Yes, there was a beta. Do you know what everyone said about it?

"This game sucks more balls than the Lusty Argonian Maid."
 

grigjd3

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Reasons I play Elder Scrolls: it has no multiplayer part and it's got a world to independently explore. Reasons I might play the new mmo:
 

Soviet Heavy

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PainInTheAssInternet said:
?we came in?

I didn't realize that The Old Republic was still relevant.

Oh wait, this is ESO, right? Or was it AOR? Or TOR? Or was it GW2? How many acronyms will there be?
 

rofltehcat

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I wonder how much of the decision to make a MMO stems from overenthusiastic designers and how much of it stems from CEOs/managers trying to get a (bad) shot at super-riches.
 

Kaymish

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Sep 10, 2008
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this is weird i was playing Game Dev Tycoon earlier today and built an MMO that drove my company into the ground the bloody thing sucked a billion dollars out of my account and sent me bankrupt before i could say what i then get on the escapist and there is an article about MMO's killing Game devs
 

Hiramas

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I played the last beta and quite liked it. I am eager to play next weekend so i can test if the first allure can be kept.
It is one of the best looking MMOs I've seen so far, the atmosphere is great. I have no idea which standards you guys use to deem the graphics bad. And of course its not a Skyrim experience. Whoever expected that is just inexperienced with MMOs or plain stupid. But its pretty damn close.
Admittedly, i haven't done too many quests but so far they seem ok.
I am a huge fan of Oblivion and Skyrim and, at the moment, play the latter one with its huge amount of mods. I also like MMOs. I played WoW for years and I even enjoyed SWTOR for some time.
I really hope that zenimax won't screw this up.
And again, for every person who sits in his chair, writing something negative about the game there are more people NOT saying anything and playing the game.
Last but not least: If i buy ESO for 60 bucks, play it intensively for a month, i already got more playtime out of it than most other games. If i play it for 3 or 4 months, like i did with SWTOR, maybe ill be disappointed that its not fun anymore. But i enjoyed it so far....

Every second sentence in an MMO discussion is how "wow won't be repeated" but yet you expect every new MMO to BE WoW. And if its not, "well f you world, im gonna quit in a big raging post on the official forums!"
Yes we have been burned too many times without question. As customers we deserve better quality. No on disc dlc, no day one patches. But apart from money grabbing publishers, having customers is the second worst thing that can happen to a game developer.

Also, yay Wildstar!

edit: Also, the License Agreement of Skyrim does NOT require you to actually buy ESO, you know that? There are MMO players, Single RPG Players and Elder Scrolls Fans. Make a Venn Diagramm out of it. With some luck, the middle will be big enough.
Imagine Uncle Sam saying: YOUR MMO.. does not actually need every one of you to be financially successful and enjoyable to the people who play it...
 

wulfgar_red

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Somewhere across town, few skilled and passionate people are stunned: They stopped making "Age of Dragon Sword" singleplayer? They do the math and realize that if they will be smart about it, with low budget they can make something that will fill a hole after "Age of Dragon Sword". Since money involved would be reasonable this is risk worth taking.