Meiam said:
From what I understand Destiny 2 has been a pretty big flop, so it really seem like company overestimate the desire of people to play these sort of quasi mmo FPS.
I completely agree. I think it's not only that tho but an issue with how many "live services" there are now, alongside the myriad of other MMOs, F2Ps, online shooters/mobas/broyales, etc which have fragmented online gamers into so many different communities, very few can actually get enough of a following to stand out.
So I think it's absolutely that they overestimate how much we want to play these games but also how many of us there are. While healthy competition is healthy, so much competition resulted in MMOs dying by the dozen. I don't really understand this fixation with forcing everything online....Skyrim and The Witcher 3 amply demonstrated a demand for single-player, offline games. I suppose online games are "the gifts that keep on giving", by monetising them.
I think there's also a psychological phenomenon like when victims start to sympathise with their kidnappers (Stockholm Syndrome?). By investing one's time and effort into a given online game, it becomes harder and harder to walk away or try something else. The more we invest in one game, the more a part of that community we feel we belong, the harder it becomes to abandon that progress. Or when something new comes out it feels like we'd be better off continuing with the game we're already invested in, particularly if we've spent actual money on in-game perks.
BabyfartsMcgeezaks said:
The ''quasi mmo fps'' isn't the problem, Destiny 2 ''flopped'' because it suffered from the same exact issues that the first game had, lack of content for a really long time. That and a few controversies like secretly slowing down the amount of XP you gain was its problem, if it would've launched in the state it was when Forsaken launched it would've been better received, a lot.
You're right, but not entirely. That was a small part of the issue.
I explained it more in another thread recently, but it had so many issues all of which, and this IMO is most telling, were deliberate design choices. Issues included:
- Lack of content
- Throttling XP Gain to artificially increase time taken to earn lootcrates they'd rather sell for cash
- Skinnerbox mechanics in a game that didn't need them
- No chat at all (apparently this is now fixed)
- Shotguns/Snipers locked as "Power Weapons", heavily restricting their use and viability (apparently also fixed)
- No mount until the entire campaign is finished
- "Open world" content is shallow, repetitive and unrewarding
- There as no interaction with other players, begging the question of why it was online
- Consumable "dyes" for recolouring gear, previously not consumable. Done to keep players paying.
- Scaling enemies and samey weapons meant combat was/is exactly the same experience at lvl 1 as at max level
- Power Cooldowns too long. Way too long. A real downer for a supposed class-based experience.
- Overall, bland, empty, boring gameplay loop.
There's even more than that, those are the bullet points. But all of the things I mentioned, cooldowns, power weapons, chat, player interaction, consumable colours, scaling...every one of these is deliberate and the result of design by committee. These were developer decisions every one of which led to a game that was the worst possible thing a big budget, "AAA", well produced, highly marketed production could be...forgettable. So mediocre it doesn't even have the personality to be bad and do that well. At least bad games are remembered, but Destiny 2 is so "design by committee" boring, it was doomed to fail by dint of failing to keep anyone's interest.
But I think Meiam is right. These guys keep making these games, as with Anthem in 3/2019, and they are blind to the fact that there just isn't an audience for them. There are too many of these games and unless it does something totally unique or exceptionally, as something like Warframe does, then it will follow D2's footsteps to be as forgettable as the other "live service" MTX laden games that have come and gone. Global Agenda, APB, Destiny 2, The Division....all mediocre. You may be right that more content and "fixes" at release may have been a different story, but we'll never know. It released like a damp squib, mired in controversy and that's all she wrote.