What are you thoughts about Vegetarianism and why do you feel that way?

[Dante DiVongola]

I just got through watching a video on YouTube where the vlogger briefly addressed her Vegetarianism due to some commercial that has a guy eating a burger and a baby with meat on her face. She talked about the baby and from the way she tried to grasp for the right words, she probably saw it almost as a barbaric act. She described the meat on the baby's face as if she had eaten her own mother or something.

She trailed off a bit to talk about how she became a vegetarian when she was a teenager because of her learning about how the animals were killed and farmed. She didn't try to push on that her ways were right, but she's implied that eating animals were immoral in some fashion. Granted, this could also be personal bias due to her fondness for animals, but she seems to indirectly imply that eating animals should be wrong.

I'm not picking at her for anything, however, it kind of lead me to sort of think about how I view animals. I realize that, in all honesty, I couldn't give a flying shit about them. Not in the ignorant fashion of 'Well their just animals, it's not like they feel' sort of fashion. Rather, I sort of feel that way in a sense that we're creatures just like them. They kill their own kind in horrible ways and so do we. We don't always eat our own kind, but, in cases of survival or in criminal cases, it's happened with us humans as well.

I do feel that we need to be better about the way we farm these animals, but they're just another variation in the food chain to me (and a very tasty one, I might add). Overall, I just can't bring myself to care about if the meat I eat was prodded, crammed in a small living space, and had it's throat slit and was hung to bleed out. It's just an elaborate form of what animals do in their natural habitat anyhow.

So, tell me, what are you thoughts about Vegetarianism and why do you feel that way?

EDIT: Thanks to all of you who posted! It was wonderful to hear all of your opinions and get your incite. I'll be posting more topics in the off-topic section as well as others, but you can continue to respond to this one if you'd like. Many thanks to all of you awesome Escapists!

 

[manic_depressive13]

I am a vegetarian. I could argue how eating meat is unsustainable, drastically detrimental to the environment and causes health problems due to the western world's tendency for over-consumption. I could also refute every single argument you have about whatever necessity or justification you feel you have for eating meat. But and the end of the day I don't give a fuck about my health or the environment or even morality. I just know that I feel sick when I see animals suffering or being killed when I know it isn't necessary. Also at the end of the day, most arguments in favour of eating meat are "I like the taste and I don't give a fuck about anything else." That's perfectly valid. I'll still hate you for it, and probably wouldn't even call an ambulance for you when you have a cholesterol induced heart attack, or choke on your steak. Just saiyan.

 

[PhantomEcho]

I am a vegetarian. I could argue how eating meat is unsustainable, drastically detrimental to the environment and causes health problems due to the western world's tendency for over-consumption. I could also refute every single argument you have about whatever necessity or justification you feel you have for eating meat. But and the end of the day I don't give a fuck about my health or the environment or even morality. I just know that I feel sick when I see animals suffering or being killed when I know it isn't necessary. Also at the end of the day, most arguments in favour of eating meat are "I like the taste and I don't give a fuck about anything else." That's perfectly valid. I'll still hate you for it, and probably wouldn't even call an ambulance for you when you have a cholesterol induced heart attack, or choke on your steak. Just saiyan.

And in turn, I could go into an argument about how all of your evidence is based upon biased research and widely debunked fallacy. I could also point out that there is no viable way to support a species our size by living purely on vegetation due to the massive requirements of space and the huge cost of transportation from what would become inconceivably distant farms, but in the end, what the hell do I care whether you're a vegetarian or not? I know plenty of vegans who I'm perfectly alright with. The kinds who don't give a damn about what I eat or think, and don't sit up on their moral high horse looking down on everyone who disagrees with them. Because hey, it doesn't take eating vegetables to make you a dick, right?

People are perfectly good at being assholes without help.

And that's really all this conversation will ever amount to. You'll have the intolerant vegans/vegetarians... the intolerant most everyone else... and the comfortable middle that thinks that both sides of this obviously loaded argument are set up to make asses of themselves.

Best to just not ask the question.

 

[Dante DiVongola]

I am a vegetarian. I could argue how eating meat is unsustainable, drastically detrimental to the environment and causes health problems due to the western world's tendency for over-consumption. I could also refute every single argument you have about whatever necessity or justification you feel you have for eating meat. But and the end of the day I don't give a fuck about my health or the environment or even morality. I just know that I feel sick when I see animals suffering or being killed when I know it isn't necessary. Also at the end of the day, most arguments in favour of eating meat are "I like the taste and I don't give a fuck about anything else." That's perfectly valid. I'll still hate you for it, and probably wouldn't even call an ambulance for you when you have a cholesterol induced heart attack, or choke on your steak. Just saiyan.

Well thanks for that heart-warming glass of passive aggressiveness, but I appreciate and respect that you're vegetarian. Yes, everything should come down to how it tastes because that's technically all that should really matter. Same thing comes down to vegetables, if you were looking for a devil's advocate. I could also come up with counterpoints to all of the subjects you brought up, but frankly, people like you sicken me.

I posted a thread, wanting to know people's opinion, stating my own without bashing either side, and was respectful to the person who inspired me to write this threat. However, when you bring up flimsy arguments and then go on to say that you "wouldn't even call an ambulance for me when I have a cholesterol-induced heart attack or choke on my steak", you lose all value as a person to me. Because all I was looking for were just some different perspectives and maybe a thought-provoking idea or two.

So I wish you happiness and all that during your existence, because if you have to flame about an opinion and not even bother to try and understand your opposition, you're gonna need all the happiness you can get.

 

[Dante DiVongola]

We have a good infrastructure that doesn't require the energy output that's required when living out in the wilderness without modern comforts. It's fine as a choice because we can survive that way now. In a survival situation you'll die in a couple of weeks with no meat as meat provides the calories we need to live when we depend on how our bodies can perform to supply for themselves.

The nicest people I have ever met in my life are vegetarians (a couple, ironically... and it's her fault ) so I have no qualms about it

That's very true and it's really fascinating to see how we've built ourselves up, as a race, to where we can actually choose our dietary lifestyle. But wow, I didn't know that we couldn't survive without meat for a couple of weeks in the wild. Guess you learn something new every day, yeah?

 

[Dante DiVongola]

I think it's a flawed concept of a lifestyle in most cases, unless the person really just doesn't like the taste or texture of meat or something, it's pretty much just dumb.

We're omnivores, we're meant to eat other animals, it's ok to kill an animal for food. If every carnivorous creatures suddenly just switched to a vegetarian diet, shit would hit the fan and our ecosystem would go out of whack.

Ever see all the environmentalists talking about how disastrous it is when apex predators suddenly go away? Like the shark crisis in the ocean right now, it's all true, when we see apex predators stop doing their jobs for whatever reason, ecosystems change for the worse.

We are the most significant apex predator in history, it is each and everybody's job to eat as many animals as they can get their grubby paws on, we are goddamn sharks.

It has its flaws, but I can still see why some people would want to live that way. Though I definitely agree with you on us being natural omnivores. People need a healthy mixture of both fruits, vegetables, meats, and grains to maintain a healthy lifestyle. To be frank, pills and substitutes won't cut it when it comes to getting all of the nutrients that are found in meat. I think it would be detrimental to our ecosystem if we were all to adopt a vegetarian lifestyle considering that most of the animals we eat have been so domesticated that they wouldn't know how to protect themselves naturally in the wild. Thank you for your post.

 

[Aidinthel]

it is each and everybody's job to eat as many animals as they can get their grubby paws on

I don't think that's how it works, but I agree with most of what you said.

OT: I have the same thoughts about vegetarianism/veganism as I do about religion: "Good for you. I don't care."

 

[manic_depressive13]

And in turn, I could go into an argument about how all of your evidence is based upon biased research and widely debunked fallacy. I could also point out that there is no viable way to support a species our size by living purely on vegetation due to the massive requirements of space and the huge cost of transportation from what would become inconceivably distant farms, but in the end, what the hell do I care whether you're a vegetarian or not? I know plenty of vegans who I'm perfectly alright with. The kinds who don't give a damn about what I eat or think, and don't sit up on their moral high horse looking down on everyone who disagrees with them. Because hey, it doesn't take eating vegetables to make you a dick, right?

People are perfectly good at being assholes without help.

And that's really all this conversation will ever amount to. You'll have the intolerant vegans/vegetarians... the intolerant most everyone else... and the comfortable middle that thinks that both sides of this obviously loaded argument are set up to make asses of themselves.

Best to just not ask the question.

You could do that, but you would be wrong.

Anyway, why the hell shouldn't I sit on my high horse. I can because I haven't fucking eaten it yet. Your friends might be happy in the knowledge that, despite them demonstrating it's perfectly possible to live without meat, you insist on killing things just because you want to. But I'm not okay with that. So if pointing out that someone is a dick for killing things makes me a dick, then I guess I'm a dick, but so is that person who I initially called out who isn't you because that would get me mod wrath.

 

[Brawndo]

I was going to go with my usual "I don't care if people are vegetarians or not because it's none of my business how anyone lives his or her life" answer, but then I read this post...

I am a vegetarian. I could argue how eating meat is unsustainable, drastically detrimental to the environment and causes health problems due to the western world's tendency for over-consumption. I could also refute every single argument you have about whatever necessity or justification you feel you have for eating meat. But and the end of the day I don't give a fuck about my health or the environment or even morality. I just know that I feel sick when I see animals suffering or being killed when I know it isn't necessary. Also at the end of the day, most arguments in favour of eating meat are "I like the taste and I don't give a fuck about anything else." That's perfectly valid. I'll still hate you for it, and probably wouldn't even call an ambulance for you when you have a cholesterol induced heart attack, or choke on your steak. Just saiyan.

...and it made me just a little ticked off. I hope your bean paste gives you explosive diarrhea, Mr./Ms. Vegetarian. Just for tonight.

 

[Aidinthel]

probably wouldn't even call an ambulance for you

0_0

Wow. You surrendered that moral high ground pretty quickly, didn't you?

 

[Craorach]

I'll try to put this as politely as possible.

Like ALL "alternate" lifestyle choices.. that are actual choices... I have absolutely no problem with a vegetarian who just is a vegetarian, lives their life not eating meat, and lets me live my life eating meat without being bothered.

The moment.. the very instant.. they are in any way critical of those of us who do eat meat, or the industry surrounding it, then I have a problem.

Like it or not, we are omnivores, borderline predators, who developed much of our society and many of the tools which created that society specifically to ensure a steady supply of dead animal to chew on. It is in our nature, and we are just another part of a complex ecosystem that involves it. If we suddenly stopped eating meat, the overwhelming affect on the natural world would be negative in one way or another.

For a start it would involve the outright slaughter and extinction of most of our food animals.

Vegetarian food can be bloody delicious, and I admire anyone who stands up against the blatant abuse of animals no matter if they eat meat or not, but without the extremely fortunate situation most western people find ourselves in, or incredibly specific local flora, vegetarianism would be an unsustainable lifestyle for us in the natural world.. and that is what is important.

 

[peruvianskys]

I'm a vegan just because it seems to me that it's the best diet for people to have. It's better for the environment and for people in general. I think it's wrong to harm animals if it isn't particularly necessary, and for most people it's not. I don't think it's morally wrong to consume meat, but I do think that trading in meat or slaughtering animals is definitely an immoral livelihood. I'm pretty quiet about it but I'd definitely recommend veganism as a great diet for almost everyone.

The moment.. the very instant.. they are in any way critical of those of us who do eat meat, or the industry surrounding it, then I have a problem.

Like it or not, we are omnivores, borderline predators, who developed much of our society and many of the tools which created that society specifically to ensure a steady supply of dead animal to chew on. It is in our nature, and we are just another part of a complex ecosystem that involves it. If we suddenly stopped eating meat, the overwhelming affect on the natural world would be negative in one way or another.

I really don't understand this argument at all. The fact that we developed as omnivores just means that we did it a lot over a long enough period of time to have that behavior modify us as a species; it has nothing to do with the moral weight of the action. If we consistently raped people for millions of years we'd probably develop barbed genitals, but it would be silly to say, "Just look at these spikes on my dick, I was designed to rape!" Just because at one point in our evolution it was easiest to kill things doesn't mean we have an obligation, or even a moral right, to continue doing so when it isn't necessary.

Also almost every scientist today dealing with agriculture would tell you that meat production on the scale we have today is borderline ecocide. From a purely environmental/sociological standpoint, it's not a good idea to rely on animal products like we do.

Anyway, why the hell shouldn't I sit on my high horse. I can because I haven't fucking eaten it yet.

Hahahahaha new favorite quote ever =]

 

[manic_depressive13]

I posted a thread, wanting to know people's opinion, stating my own without bashing either side, and was respectful to the person who inspired me to write this threat. However, when you bring up flimsy arguments and then go on to say that you "wouldn't even call an ambulance for me when I have a cholesterol-induced heart attack or choke on my steak", you lose all value as a person to me. Because all I was looking for were just some different perspectives and maybe a thought-provoking idea or two.

So I wish you happiness and all that during your existence, because if you have to flame about an opinion and not even bother to try and understand your opposition, you're gonna need all the happiness you can get.

I find it hilarious that my potentially contributing partially to one hypothetical person's death by not calling an ambulance is a dehumanising factor in your eyes, yet I'm meant to accept the fact that you alone have resulted in the death of hundreds of animals and let it slide. I thought it's no big deal when things die?

 

[Craorach]

I really don't understand this argument at all. The fact that we developed as omnivores just means that we did it a lot over a long enough period of time to have that behavior modify us as a species; it has nothing to do with the moral weight of the action. If we consistently raped people for millions of years we'd probably develop barbed genitals, but it would be silly to say, "Just look at these spikes on my dick, I was designed to rape!" Just because at one point in our evolution it was easiest to kill things doesn't mean we have an obligation, or even a moral right, to continue doing so when it isn't necessary.

Also almost every scientist today dealing with agriculture would tell you that meat production on the scale we have today is borderline ecocide. From a purely environmental/sociological standpoint, it's not a good idea to rely on animal products like we do.

I wouldn't deny for a second that the scale and manner that we go about some of our animal farming is pretty terrible for us, the animals and the environment. But so is the scale and manner that we go about some of our vegetable, grain, etc farming.. (what would you call that.. Flora Farming?).

It's also ALWAYS worth remembering that the moment you mention morals you are on shaky ground, because they change over time. Morality is subjective, and if you want to start bringing right and wrong into a debate about if we should eat meat or not then the answer can only be "whatever is evolutionarily going to lead to the best for our species".

I believe that a proper, balanced, diet is just that. It's no more good for individuals or species to only eat plants than it is for them to only eat animals. Both involve missing out on nutrients that are hard to know for sure would be accessible without modern methods of food production and import/export.

 

[PhantomEcho]

I posted a thread, wanting to know people's opinion, stating my own without bashing either side, and was respectful to the person who inspired me to write this threat. However, when you bring up flimsy arguments and then go on to say that you "wouldn't even call an ambulance for me when I have a cholesterol-induced heart attack or choke on my steak", you lose all value as a person to me. Because all I was looking for were just some different perspectives and maybe a thought-provoking idea or two.

So I wish you happiness and all that during your existence, because if you have to flame about an opinion and not even bother to try and understand your opposition, you're gonna need all the happiness you can get.

I find it hilarious that my potentially contributing partially to one hypothetical person's death by not calling an ambulance is a dehumanising factor in your eyes, yet I'm meant to accept the fact that you alone have resulted in the death of hundreds of animals and let it slide. I thought it's no big deal when things die?

I find it hilarious that you can justify it at all, seeing as you're obviously the 'angry vegetarian' stereotype that has gotten the entire lot of you cast into such a negative light that we get 600,000 topics about vegetarianism a day trying to find some middle ground. Shouldn't it be about ANY animal, hypothetical or not?

No, I suppose it really only matters when you want to prove your case. Because that's how extremists work, you know. The details are only important when they apply to someone else.

And for the record, being a -dick- makes you a dick. It has nothing to do with what you eat or what you believe. It has nothing to do with you being right or wrong. It merely detracts from everything you say, and eventually leaves you a discredited, writhing lump of impotent rage.

Which is a shame. Because you do a disservice to all of my vegetarian and vegan friends. And for that alone, I would watch you bleed to death in a dark alley and never tell a soul.

Oh wait. That's your schtick. I'd call for the paramedics.

Because I'm actually a human being.

 

[Stu35]

People can be veggie/vegan if they want. Doesn't affect me.

I only take umbrage when they try to claim some sort of moral high ground for being that way. This irritates me, and is met with swift facts about human biology (we're omnivores), and a quick lesson on evolutions role in the development of modern humans (our brains and opposable thumbs are the tools we require to create the weapons needed to hunt our prey, our sweat glands allow us to chase our prey until it collapses, etc. etc.).

Do I value human life over other animals? Yes, I also value Scottish life over the rest of Britain, British lives over the rest of the English speaking world, the English speaking world over the rest of the world, my planets humans over any other planets humans... etc. etc. etc.

Tribalism, ftw.