What are you thoughts about Vegetarianism and why do you feel that way?

poleboy

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Matthew Dunn said:
Oh look this thread again e-e

Well i am also a meat nommer but im careful about where the meat comes from and will not eat anything that is halal because of the way its slaughted (I mean no offence by this but i disagree with it)
I.E (wiki) Ḏabīḥah (ذَبِيْحَة) is the prescribed method of slaughtering all animals excluding fish and most sea-life per Islamic law. This method of slaughtering animals consists of using a well sharpened knife to make a swift, deep incision that cuts the front of the throat, the carotid artery, wind pipe and jugular veins but leaves the spinal cord intact.[2] The head of an animal that is slaughtered using halal methods is aligned with the Qiblah. In addition to the direction, permitted animal should be slaughtered in the name of Allah (the Lord) and the person who is slaughtering should be a Muslim and he/she should be in a good mental condition and faith.

I thought cutting the throat was illegal... but they get away with it ----> watch out for this sign حلال
Halal (when done properly) isn't barbaric, it's the way people have slaughtered cattle for thousands of years (minus the religious rituals). If it's done by someone who knows what he's doing, the animal dies very quickly and hardly suffers. Why is hanging live, awake chickens by their feet and shocking them to death better?

Oh, and ever heard about Shechita? It's basically the jewish version of halal, so you can't really pin this one on the muslims.
 

KrossBillNye

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I support Vegetarianism. Why? I could give numerous reasons but just like on the subject of religion, there will be others out there to try and prove others wrong.

Is it wrong to choose NOT to eat meat? No.

Is it wrong to choose WHAT you believe in? No.

Is it wrong to try to force someone to change their views? Yes.
 

CarlMin

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It's so tiresome to see people still repeating the same old anti-vegetarian arguments as if it was a lifestyle that needs to be justified. I don't even tell my friends about it anymore out of fear of being forced into a hour-long debate about it.

But there are a few things I'm so tired of hearing I can't help but react on it. The old "we are omnivores"-argument is an example. We are not exclusively omnivores. We, like our primate ancestors, were meant to survive on a diet including vegetables, fruits, berries, cereal and grasses as well as, occasionally, meat. Our modern diet which consists of almost exclusively meat is not healthy, it is destroying the earth and it's a waste of money and resources that could be used to feed the entire planet without problem and completely eliminate poverty. And we haven't even mentioned the moral issues.

The western, meat-orientated lifestyle is destroying the earth in every imaginable way and I still hear people claiming that eating meat is natural as if it was some sort of relevant argument.

poleboy said:
... Why do people care so much what other people eat? Or what clothes they wear... or who they have sex with? Seriously, it's hardly ever any of your, or anyone's business.
Of course it is if it affects the lifestyle of millions. The meat industry affects not only animals but humans in nations with extreme poverty and the environment. So yeah, it is our business.
 

ShindoL Shill

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Jul 11, 2011
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i only have one thought:
um num num meat.

i only know one former vegetarian. she now is only a vegetarian except fish (apparently they dont count anyway) and chicken (since she works at KFC).
 

AndyFromMonday

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For some reason I cannot help but stereotype vegetarians and by extension vegans as uptight middle class college kids. I don't know, maybe it's just me.
 

Metaphysic

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CarlMinez said:
It's so tiresome to see people still repeating the same old anti-vegetarian arguments as if it was a lifestyle that needs to be justified. I don't even tell my friends about it anymore out of fear of being forced into a hour-long debate about it.

But there are a few things I'm so tired of hearing I can't help but react on it. The old "we are omnivores"-argument is an example. We are not exclusively omnivores. We, like our primate ancestors, were meant to survive on a diet including vegetables, fruits, berries, cereal and grasses as well as, occasionally, meat. Our modern diet which consists of almost exclusively meat is not healthy, it is destroying the earth and it's a waste of money and resources that could be used to feed the entire planet without problem and completely eliminate poverty. And we haven't even mentioned the moral issues.

The western, meat-orientated lifestyle is destroying the earth in every imaginable way and I still hear people claiming that eating meat is natural as if it was some sort of relevant argument.
I think the problem you're describing isn't necessarily the meat eating (as you said yourself, meat eating is natural). It's that we eat WAY too much meat. Typical breakfast = eggs, bacon, biscuits and gravy. Typical lunch = sandwich (usually with meat and cheese), crisps, maybe a fruit and salad. Typical dinner = some obscenely large amount of meat (usually beef here in the American midwest), potatoes or something and maybe salad.
Which is ridiculous.

I don't think the destruction of the earth is limited to meat farming- our plant farming practices are terrible as well (genetically modified foods, pesticides, etc). But then, so are our transportation model, landfills, factories, powerplants... so environmental damage is a moot point unless you're going to stop driving, using non-recyclable plastics, stop eating veggies which have had harmful pesticides used (I know, not all pesticides are bad for the environment), and stop using devices powered by electricity from coal or other polluting powerplants.
 

Anti Nudist Cupcake

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I'll agree that the way animals are killed and tortured is wrong, consuming them however is not. We are omnivores, we are meant to eat. We are no more evil for eating meat than, say, a lion.

The solution I have in mind is that we learn to GROW meat in tubes, using cloning technology. That way we won't be harming animals and we get to do what is only natural to us.

Problem is... we frankly don't know how. Living clones of today are BORN, not grown and are alive so it is wrong again to kill them. What i'm talking about is growing some chicken wings or steak in a tube.

I always care when something suffers because I mentally put myself in its position, you just not giving a damn when something is stuffed in a cage, unable to move and in agony from being force-fed proves my belief that the world has no morals and deserves obliteration.
 

Something Amyss

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Regnes said:
We're omnivores, we're meant to eat other animals
"able" and "meant to" are two different things entirely. What you're describing is what we're able to do, not what we're meant to.
 

peruvianskys

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These arguments against vegetarianism are absurd. The consumption of meat is not just a personal choice; it's an action with measurable consequences for the world around you - and if someone happens to side with the vast majority of agriculturalists and biologists in claiming that there is no moral justification for the consumption of dead animals or their byproducts, that doesn't make them self-righteous, any more than the abolitionists were self-righteous or people who work to end child abuse are self-righteous.

Killing another living being and eating it when it isn't necessary is silly. I am certain that anyone who can afford an internet connection and a video game hobby is wealthy enough to be able to maintain a healthy vegetarian diet (which, honestly, is actually mostly cheaper than an omnivorous one), and statistically vegetarians and vegans are by far the healthiest portion of our society. I just don't understand why people can dismiss vegetarianism so fast. It just makes so much sense and there is absolutely no justification for not doing so. I don't think physically consuming meat is some kind of terrible sin, but it is certainly better in every measurable way as a lifestyle and I absolutely challenge anyone to argue differently from a nutritional, ethical, environmental, or economic angle.
 

DarkArk

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I find it hilarious that people seem to think vegetarians have to actually pay attention to what they eat to be healthy. You don't. I've been a vegetarian my entire life and I usually never think about it. The fun thing about dairy is that unlike any other food source (including meat, unless you eat the entire animal) it provides you with absolutely everything you need to live.

I'm also finding it hilarious that so many people say they hate 'smug' vegetarians, when they then go around and be amazingly smug themselves.

As for the health thing, vegetarians live five years longer on average to the general population.
 

Soviet Heavy

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I honestly don't mind vegetarians as long as they respect my choices as well. Unfortunately this is a hard balance to keep online, where often these arguments get distilled to their extremes and the winner is whoever shouts louder.
 

Jake0fTrades

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It's your own choice and that's your prerogative, but it's not as though it's a human cruelty, animals eat other animals, it's only natural.
 

DrunkPickle

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I don't support vegetarianism. I think it's just silly, and over-thought. The only way I could see vegetarians as reasonable people is if their reason for not eating eating meat was allergy, or religion. Other than that, no. I'm really annoyed by those pesky animal-lovers who impulsively protest against meat consumption. We are carnivores, and we're built to eat other animals, no matter how cute or fuzzy.
 

DevilWithaHalo

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I've been through the debate enough times to have heard many of the arguments from both sides. Eventually you reach the point where you recognize it as an arbitrary choice and get on with your life.

However, I always find amusment in pointing out the irony for those doing it on the ethical basis; that it's only ethically acceptable to consume a life form that doesn't consume other life forms to survive.

I've gotten a flew blank stares with that one. Still haven't gotten a good response on it though.
 

TheColdHeart

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My ex-girlfriend and best friend were/are both vegetarian. At first it was a pain having to buy the non-meat alternative for a meal or go to restaurants based on their vegetarian options etc but it's their choice and I learned to accomodate. They have no problem with me eating meat they just don't want to eat it as it's how they were brought up.

The only time I take issue is when I'm preached at about how awful I am for eating meat and how what I'm about to eat is a victim of my lifestyle choice or whatever.
 

ChildishLegacy

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Fed up of these threads. So much misinformation and rubbish comes out of them. I'm not a vegetarian, but people seem to think somebody else being a vegetarian is a personal attack on those who aren't, stop getting so wound up about people who think you way of life is wrong, there's probably a lot of them.

Invalid arguments (probably all of them have cropped up by now) are all over these threads, such as "We're omnivores, its NATURAL for us to eat meat". By that logic we shouldn't be getting less sleep than we'd like due to work/school, running to work/school every day rather than using the car or bus etc, living in the wild, all the while not having any clothes on, I mean, that's all natural isn't it?
It's probably beneficial to eat a little bit of meat every weak, but nothing you couldn't make up for by eating the right non-meaty things.

I think most people get wound up about vegetarianism because they hate the thought that there's something in their every day life that god forbid, THEY MIGHT BE WRONG ABOUT (the horror!), and they hate being made to feel guilty, so they get really pissed off at whoever makes them question their lifestyle and makes them feel guilty.
 

Dante DiVongola

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Vivi22 said:
Dante DiVongola said:
However, when you bring up flimsy arguments and then go on to say that you "wouldn't even call an ambulance for me when I have a cholesterol-induced heart attack or choke on my steak", you lose all value as a person to me.
You want to know my favourite part of what he said? Eating animal fat will not cause you to have a heart attack. You know when your arteries get all clogged up with cholesterol and cause heart attacks? The type of cholesterol that does it is created in the blood through a process called glycation which requires sugars to happen. The sort of sugars you aren't likely to find in large quantities in the meat that you eat. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110526204953.htm

And if that wasn't evidence enough, how about the fact that reducing cholesterol with Statins isn't likely to reduce your risk of heart attack very much, and even then, only if you're a young man with existing risk factors for heart disease and heart attacks. Whether or not your risk of dying is reduced though the drug companies won't say. http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2010/06/03/a-few-reasons-to-avoid-statins/

Here's the thing about vegetarianism. I don't advocate it because I don't think it's the ideal diet to promote good health in human beings. Nor do I have any ethical qualms with killing animals, especially when they are an important part of the diet we evolved to thrive on.

But I don't have a problem with vegetarians choosing to give up meat for whatever reason. It's their choice, and they have every right to make it. And if they supplement properly, and actually eat mostly vegetables and fruit in addition to wherever they're getting their protein and some good fats, while cutting out foods high in refined sugar and reducing their consumption of wheat products, then they'll most likely be healthier than someone eating your average North American diet. Hell, they'd just be some grass fed steak away from a paleo diet at that point.

Sadly, the problem with a very small number of vegetarians is that they not only choose to give up meat, but they pursue said choice with an almost religious fervor. And in the case of fellows such as the one you quoted almost seem to actively hate anyone who doesn't agree with them, or spend their time trying to argue why everyone else is wrong, and that sort of stuff doesn't fly with me. The funniest part perhaps is that I actually tend to agree with such people on some things such as the sort of factory farming performed in much of the US being undesirable, not just for the conditions the animals are subjected to, but because it relies heavily on growth hormones and grain feeding to fatten animals up when neither is natural, and while it may be more efficient for raising a lot of meat quickly, it's too destructive to be the ideal way to raise meat, especially when there are large quantities of land out there which can be used to raise meat more naturally, and isn't suited for any other agricultural purpose that we could make use of.

And I'll fully admit that things go the other way as well, and again, it's only a small percentage of vegetarians just like any other group of people. Most are fairly normal folk content to do their thing while leaving you be.
Those are very cool points you've made, man. I was going to bring up earlier about how animal fat doesn't really cause heart attacks, but I felt it would be a little tl;dr or preachy coming from me. But you presented things rather well and I applaud you for it. Thanks for your post! :)
 

poleboy

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TrilbyWill said:
i only have one thought:
um num num meat.

i only know one former vegetarian. she now is only a vegetarian except fish (apparently they dont count anyway) and chicken (since she works at KFC).
So actually, she's just a picky meat eater. :p