What are your guy's thoughts on the NSFW games on Steam?

Caramel Frappe

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It?s really no worse than allowing games with grotesque or brutal violence; pragmatically it should be considered more acceptable. It?s a natural act that people engage in for pleasure. History has also shown that denying people something only makes them want to experience it even more, but the real issue is keeping it out of the hands of minors who simply aren?t mature enough yet to enjoy the content in a ?healthy? manner.

Having said that, this will always be an issue in a free society. There is either authoritative control or be prepared to deal with a certain amount of outlying unpleasantries. Idealism is usually an unattainable concept.
 

gyrobot_v1legacy

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https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/24/20708786/koikatsu-party-steam-sex-game-patch-valve-sales

I will let Polygon speak, but my two takes on this is that this why more and more AA devs switching to EGS along with the big pile of money. No one sane would want to associate themselves with pornographic material.

erttheking said:
They?re like most things on Steam nowadays, 90% crap.
I agree, At least EGS has games people would want to play like MW5 and Shenmue 3.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
gyrobot said:
https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/24/20708786/koikatsu-party-steam-sex-game-patch-valve-sales

I will let Polygon speak, but my two takes on this is that this why more and more AA devs switching to EGS along with the big pile of money. No one sane would want to associate themselves with pornographic material.

erttheking said:
They?re like most things on Steam nowadays, 90% crap.
I agree, At least EGS has games people would want to play like MW5 and Shenmue 3.
So, why is it better to blow someones head off in a shower of chunks, then to have sex with an anime woman? Cause you obviously seem to associate adult games with porn which you seem to view as bad. And what of something like Witcher 3 which has sex scenes in it or Red Dead Redemption 2 which bragged about horse balls.
 

gyrobot_v1legacy

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Worgen said:
gyrobot said:
https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/24/20708786/koikatsu-party-steam-sex-game-patch-valve-sales

I will let Polygon speak, but my two takes on this is that this why more and more AA devs switching to EGS along with the big pile of money. No one sane would want to associate themselves with pornographic material.

erttheking said:
They?re like most things on Steam nowadays, 90% crap.
I agree, At least EGS has games people would want to play like MW5 and Shenmue 3.
So, why is it better to blow someones head off in a shower of chunks, then to have sex with an anime woman? Cause you obviously seem to associate adult games with porn which you seem to view as bad. And what of something like Witcher 3 which has sex scenes in it or Red Dead Redemption 2 which bragged about horse balls.
This isn't a matter of violence vs sex, it is an issue about quality.

The difference between that is the adult H-Games are low budget games sold at a premium in general. In Japan a game like Koikatsu costs 100 USD and still does at Getchu and as the only 3D Hentai Game Dev in town along with Kiss. Yet mechanics wise, the gameplay is barebones, badly optimized and supported by a fanbase that eats up any sex game since their expectations are extremely low. and I won't blame them because here is the reality of the porn game situation. Long Rant Coming

Porn Games in general come from three sources, Patreon, Getchu and Dlsite. With Western Game Development not having any form of an established trade in sex game business. Patreon became the go to source for sex game development. I will explain the problems with each one from my PoV and some posts on /v/ who tends to discuss this kind of stuff

Patreon has been the well known source for any aspiring porn game developer to make adult games. Thanks to the way how Patreon works, devs could get up to 50k a month doing absolutely nothing. Not even the reviled Duke Nukem has this kind of empty promise development that allowed 3DR to go about when it is done and get away with it. The Patreon Market effectively killed honest developers because how people will just toss money at any kind of porn game and not ask question about it's completion date. They throw up lofty ambitions that is never fulfilled

Then you have Getchu, the VN/3D Game devs. Much more reliable but the problem is the Japanese PC game market is both dry and expensive as hell. A modest VN sets you back 25 dollar for a 5 scene game and relies on premium merchandise to make the difference back in development costs. Custom Maid 3D 2 for example costs about 550 for all the DLC and the game itself with no discounts. All of this just for a character poser with VN elements to it.

Finally we have DLsite and Doujin Games, except that the games are erratic in quality and fewer new devs are showing up thanks to foreign weebs pirating games instead of supporting them. Steam has given a new lease on life at the cost of giving another reason for devs to switch to EGS

So technically speaking the audience should have been happy to pay 100 dollar for a character poser with sex poses tossed in. And EGS for all it's shittiness never sold you an Unity Engine Character Poser as a game. The desperation of a sex game has caused Steam to lose a significant chunk of the AA/AAA base at the expensive of a tiny fandom who is extremely loud about their love for porn games.

Adding to that, when was the last time people uses "Sex Sells" in game development? We have grown past such things by now and the industry with a B-Movie mentality is the only one who does it. Most devs can choose to do it but they chose not to not because of prudishness but because they have grown up and don't to behave like 13 year olds who got their hands on their first pornographic magazine.

So no, I am not a prude but a recovering sex addict who had realized how destructive the hobby was to my well being.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
gyrobot said:
Worgen said:
gyrobot said:
https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/24/20708786/koikatsu-party-steam-sex-game-patch-valve-sales

I will let Polygon speak, but my two takes on this is that this why more and more AA devs switching to EGS along with the big pile of money. No one sane would want to associate themselves with pornographic material.

erttheking said:
They?re like most things on Steam nowadays, 90% crap.
I agree, At least EGS has games people would want to play like MW5 and Shenmue 3.
So, why is it better to blow someones head off in a shower of chunks, then to have sex with an anime woman? Cause you obviously seem to associate adult games with porn which you seem to view as bad. And what of something like Witcher 3 which has sex scenes in it or Red Dead Redemption 2 which bragged about horse balls.
This isn't a matter of violence vs sex, it is an issue about quality.

The difference between that is the adult H-Games are low budget games sold at a premium in general. In Japan a game like Koikatsu costs 100 USD and still does at Getchu and as the only 3D Hentai Game Dev in town along with Kiss. Yet mechanics wise, the gameplay is barebones, badly optimized and supported by a fanbase that eats up any sex game since their expectations are extremely low. and I won't blame them because here is the reality of the porn game situation. Long Rant Coming

Porn Games in general come from three sources, Patreon, Getchu and Dlsite. With Western Game Development not having any form of an established trade in sex game business. Patreon became the go to source for sex game development. I will explain the problems with each one from my PoV and some posts on /v/ who tends to discuss this kind of stuff

Patreon has been the well known source for any aspiring porn game developer to make adult games. Thanks to the way how Patreon works, devs could get up to 50k a month doing absolutely nothing. Not even the reviled Duke Nukem has this kind of empty promise development that allowed 3DR to go about when it is done and get away with it. The Patreon Market effectively killed honest developers because how people will just toss money at any kind of porn game and not ask question about it's completion date. They throw up lofty ambitions that is never fulfilled

Then you have Getchu, the VN/3D Game devs. Much more reliable but the problem is the Japanese PC game market is both dry and expensive as hell. A modest VN sets you back 25 dollar for a 5 scene game and relies on premium merchandise to make the difference back in development costs. Custom Maid 3D 2 for example costs about 550 for all the DLC and the game itself with no discounts. All of this just for a character poser with VN elements to it.

Finally we have DLsite and Doujin Games, except that the games are erratic in quality and fewer new devs are showing up thanks to foreign weebs pirating games instead of supporting them. Steam has given a new lease on life at the cost of giving another reason for devs to switch to EGS

So technically speaking the audience should have been happy to pay 100 dollar for a character poser with sex poses tossed in. And EGS for all it's shittiness never sold you an Unity Engine Character Poser as a game. The desperation of a sex game has caused Steam to lose a significant chunk of the AA/AAA base at the expensive of a tiny fandom who is extremely loud about their love for porn games.

Adding to that, when was the last time people uses "Sex Sells" in game development? We have grown past such things by now and the industry with a B-Movie mentality is the only one who does it. Most devs can choose to do it but they chose not to not because of prudishness but because they have grown up and don't to behave like 13 year olds who got their hands on their first pornographic magazine.

So no, I am not a prude but a recovering sex addict who had realized how destructive the hobby was to my well being.
It sounds like your kinda coming at this from the "video games cause violence" type of angle. Also, western porn games are much more of a thing then you seem to think. Hunipop was a big hit that sold almost if not more then a million copies on steam, it was also pretty well made.

Also, your wrong about Koikatsu, I just checked and its going for $60, which seems high to me but whatever, its no higher then cod or doom or something. Plus it doesn't look like its trying to nickle and dime with dlc and shit.

Yeah, there are a lot of patreons for adult games but not many of them are really making huge bank. I've looked through a few and some are making a ridiculous amount, but a lot of others are just scraping by. But, I still don't see what this has to do with anything. I'm not really seeing your point, even as someone who says they were a sex addict.

I could make the argument that porn games becoming more mainstream has helped the games market. Because at the same time we see more porn games, we see less blatant sexualization in other games. Like look at the last Mortal Kombat game, fewer and fewer characters had ridiculous balloon tits just hanging out. In other words, if you are suffering from an addiction, then sex games being a thing and on steam, make it easier for you to avoid them since you can tell steam to literally keep those games out of your feed. In fact, I think you actually have to opt in to even see them.
 

Wakey87

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I'm all for it. Even tho it appears to just be filled full of crap and you might aswell just purchase your adult games from MangaGamer where they actualy care about quality control. This gives tripple A titles room to not shy away from putting an adult scene in their game without worrying whether they can put it up on the platform or not.
 

gyrobot_v1legacy

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Worgen said:
gyrobot said:
Worgen said:
gyrobot said:
https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/24/20708786/koikatsu-party-steam-sex-game-patch-valve-sales

I will let Polygon speak, but my two takes on this is that this why more and more AA devs switching to EGS along with the big pile of money. No one sane would want to associate themselves with pornographic material.

erttheking said:
They?re like most things on Steam nowadays, 90% crap.
I agree, At least EGS has games people would want to play like MW5 and Shenmue 3.
So, why is it better to blow someones head off in a shower of chunks, then to have sex with an anime woman? Cause you obviously seem to associate adult games with porn which you seem to view as bad. And what of something like Witcher 3 which has sex scenes in it or Red Dead Redemption 2 which bragged about horse balls.
This isn't a matter of violence vs sex, it is an issue about quality.

The difference between that is the adult H-Games are low budget games sold at a premium in general. In Japan a game like Koikatsu costs 100 USD and still does at Getchu and as the only 3D Hentai Game Dev in town along with Kiss. Yet mechanics wise, the gameplay is barebones, badly optimized and supported by a fanbase that eats up any sex game since their expectations are extremely low. and I won't blame them because here is the reality of the porn game situation. Long Rant Coming

Porn Games in general come from three sources, Patreon, Getchu and Dlsite. With Western Game Development not having any form of an established trade in sex game business. Patreon became the go to source for sex game development. I will explain the problems with each one from my PoV and some posts on /v/ who tends to discuss this kind of stuff

Patreon has been the well known source for any aspiring porn game developer to make adult games. Thanks to the way how Patreon works, devs could get up to 50k a month doing absolutely nothing. Not even the reviled Duke Nukem has this kind of empty promise development that allowed 3DR to go about when it is done and get away with it. The Patreon Market effectively killed honest developers because how people will just toss money at any kind of porn game and not ask question about it's completion date. They throw up lofty ambitions that is never fulfilled

Then you have Getchu, the VN/3D Game devs. Much more reliable but the problem is the Japanese PC game market is both dry and expensive as hell. A modest VN sets you back 25 dollar for a 5 scene game and relies on premium merchandise to make the difference back in development costs. Custom Maid 3D 2 for example costs about 550 for all the DLC and the game itself with no discounts. All of this just for a character poser with VN elements to it.

Finally we have DLsite and Doujin Games, except that the games are erratic in quality and fewer new devs are showing up thanks to foreign weebs pirating games instead of supporting them. Steam has given a new lease on life at the cost of giving another reason for devs to switch to EGS

So technically speaking the audience should have been happy to pay 100 dollar for a character poser with sex poses tossed in. And EGS for all it's shittiness never sold you an Unity Engine Character Poser as a game. The desperation of a sex game has caused Steam to lose a significant chunk of the AA/AAA base at the expensive of a tiny fandom who is extremely loud about their love for porn games.

Adding to that, when was the last time people uses "Sex Sells" in game development? We have grown past such things by now and the industry with a B-Movie mentality is the only one who does it. Most devs can choose to do it but they chose not to not because of prudishness but because they have grown up and don't to behave like 13 year olds who got their hands on their first pornographic magazine.

So no, I am not a prude but a recovering sex addict who had realized how destructive the hobby was to my well being.
It sounds like your kinda coming at this from the "video games cause violence" type of angle. Also, western porn games are much more of a thing then you seem to think. Hunipop was a big hit that sold almost if not more then a million copies on steam, it was also pretty well made.

Also, your wrong about Koikatsu, I just checked and its going for $60, which seems high to me but whatever, its no higher then cod or doom or something. Plus it doesn't look like its trying to nickle and dime with dlc and shit.

Yeah, there are a lot of patreons for adult games but not many of them are really making huge bank. I've looked through a few and some are making a ridiculous amount, but a lot of others are just scraping by. But, I still don't see what this has to do with anything. I'm not really seeing your point, even as someone who says they were a sex addict.

I could make the argument that porn games becoming more mainstream has helped the games market. Because at the same time we see more porn games, we see less blatant sexualization in other games. Like look at the last Mortal Kombat game, fewer and fewer characters had ridiculous balloon tits just hanging out. In other words, if you are suffering from an addiction, then sex games being a thing and on steam, make it easier for you to avoid them since you can tell steam to literally keep those games out of your feed. In fact, I think you actually have to opt in to even see them.
It isn't "Video Games causes Violence" so much as "These ecchi games enable the most toxic audience to date in gaming and the more they suffer, the better.", everytime these games get censored, that certain audience goes up in arms and intoxicate the argument with 2 Minute Hate, in fact they still lurk around places like NicheGamer and Gematsu.

In Japan, the DLC for Koikatsu costs 40 dollars for voice acting and three new outfit. Check Koikatsu and Getchu and see how it actually costs.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
gyrobot said:
Worgen said:
gyrobot said:
Worgen said:
gyrobot said:
https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/24/20708786/koikatsu-party-steam-sex-game-patch-valve-sales

I will let Polygon speak, but my two takes on this is that this why more and more AA devs switching to EGS along with the big pile of money. No one sane would want to associate themselves with pornographic material.

erttheking said:
They?re like most things on Steam nowadays, 90% crap.
I agree, At least EGS has games people would want to play like MW5 and Shenmue 3.
So, why is it better to blow someones head off in a shower of chunks, then to have sex with an anime woman? Cause you obviously seem to associate adult games with porn which you seem to view as bad. And what of something like Witcher 3 which has sex scenes in it or Red Dead Redemption 2 which bragged about horse balls.
This isn't a matter of violence vs sex, it is an issue about quality.

The difference between that is the adult H-Games are low budget games sold at a premium in general. In Japan a game like Koikatsu costs 100 USD and still does at Getchu and as the only 3D Hentai Game Dev in town along with Kiss. Yet mechanics wise, the gameplay is barebones, badly optimized and supported by a fanbase that eats up any sex game since their expectations are extremely low. and I won't blame them because here is the reality of the porn game situation. Long Rant Coming

Porn Games in general come from three sources, Patreon, Getchu and Dlsite. With Western Game Development not having any form of an established trade in sex game business. Patreon became the go to source for sex game development. I will explain the problems with each one from my PoV and some posts on /v/ who tends to discuss this kind of stuff

Patreon has been the well known source for any aspiring porn game developer to make adult games. Thanks to the way how Patreon works, devs could get up to 50k a month doing absolutely nothing. Not even the reviled Duke Nukem has this kind of empty promise development that allowed 3DR to go about when it is done and get away with it. The Patreon Market effectively killed honest developers because how people will just toss money at any kind of porn game and not ask question about it's completion date. They throw up lofty ambitions that is never fulfilled

Then you have Getchu, the VN/3D Game devs. Much more reliable but the problem is the Japanese PC game market is both dry and expensive as hell. A modest VN sets you back 25 dollar for a 5 scene game and relies on premium merchandise to make the difference back in development costs. Custom Maid 3D 2 for example costs about 550 for all the DLC and the game itself with no discounts. All of this just for a character poser with VN elements to it.

Finally we have DLsite and Doujin Games, except that the games are erratic in quality and fewer new devs are showing up thanks to foreign weebs pirating games instead of supporting them. Steam has given a new lease on life at the cost of giving another reason for devs to switch to EGS

So technically speaking the audience should have been happy to pay 100 dollar for a character poser with sex poses tossed in. And EGS for all it's shittiness never sold you an Unity Engine Character Poser as a game. The desperation of a sex game has caused Steam to lose a significant chunk of the AA/AAA base at the expensive of a tiny fandom who is extremely loud about their love for porn games.

Adding to that, when was the last time people uses "Sex Sells" in game development? We have grown past such things by now and the industry with a B-Movie mentality is the only one who does it. Most devs can choose to do it but they chose not to not because of prudishness but because they have grown up and don't to behave like 13 year olds who got their hands on their first pornographic magazine.

So no, I am not a prude but a recovering sex addict who had realized how destructive the hobby was to my well being.
It sounds like your kinda coming at this from the "video games cause violence" type of angle. Also, western porn games are much more of a thing then you seem to think. Hunipop was a big hit that sold almost if not more then a million copies on steam, it was also pretty well made.

Also, your wrong about Koikatsu, I just checked and its going for $60, which seems high to me but whatever, its no higher then cod or doom or something. Plus it doesn't look like its trying to nickle and dime with dlc and shit.

Yeah, there are a lot of patreons for adult games but not many of them are really making huge bank. I've looked through a few and some are making a ridiculous amount, but a lot of others are just scraping by. But, I still don't see what this has to do with anything. I'm not really seeing your point, even as someone who says they were a sex addict.

I could make the argument that porn games becoming more mainstream has helped the games market. Because at the same time we see more porn games, we see less blatant sexualization in other games. Like look at the last Mortal Kombat game, fewer and fewer characters had ridiculous balloon tits just hanging out. In other words, if you are suffering from an addiction, then sex games being a thing and on steam, make it easier for you to avoid them since you can tell steam to literally keep those games out of your feed. In fact, I think you actually have to opt in to even see them.
It isn't "Video Games causes Violence" so much as "These ecchi games enable the most toxic audience to date in gaming and the more they suffer, the better.", everytime these games get censored, that certain audience goes up in arms and intoxicate the argument with 2 Minute Hate, in fact they still lurk around places like NicheGamer and Gematsu.

In Japan, the DLC for Koikatsu costs 40 dollars for voice acting and three new outfit. Check Koikatsu and Getchu and see how it actually costs.
People get mad over censorship, they do it for violence or content censorship also, just seems a bit more muted than for sexual content since people really like sex.

Overpriced dlc is nothing new. Remember back in the day the character eye patch in Eve online that was stupid expensive and only effected your character portrait?

https://www.pcgamer.com/eve-online-now-sells-70-monocles/

I'm still not really getting your point here.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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I'm confused about why the polygon article which makes a point showing the advances that steam has made for these games and their success (that game they're talking about made it to the top sellers list) is anything negative.

If you stop and think for a second, this means that now there's proof these games are actually financially successful.

This will only ensure more and better such games get made since there's proven demand and a profit to be made, and this is all thanks to steam. If you mind that up to now a lot of these games were barebones, well, how best to fix it than to make them worth investing in. (though you may wanna try some of the more interesting examples like Littlewitch Romanesque and Eiyuu Senki which stand out just on gameplay alone)

I'm pretty sure this is not the takeaway most negatively predisposed people came out with (and probably not what the article was aiming to convey, either) but that's the most notable component of that article.

gyrobot said:
https://www.polygon.com/2019/7/24/20708786/koikatsu-party-steam-sex-game-patch-valve-sales

No one sane would want to associate themselves with pornographic material.

I'm preeeeety sure most people do, some are just deceitful about it and pretend they do not, now, it's an interesting debate whether anyone is truly sane, but I'm fairly sure you had no such considerations with that reply lol.
 
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Dreiko said:
I'm confused about why the polygon article which makes a point showing the advances that steam has made for these games and their success (that game they're talking about made it to the top sellers list) is anything negative.
Polygon does not like this game, make no mistake. It goes against everything they stand for. They have to act semiprofessional as to not appear as childish ranting. It disturbs them that people would buy such a game, and such game could be successful. It's an unraveling of progress made so far.

Koikatsu was made by the same company that made Rapelay. Since then that company has remade Rapelay twice under a different name, and the VR one with the schoolgirl, except nobody cares now because it's old news.

This entire genre is not friendly to what they stand for. Just think about the large percentage of porn that is non-consensual, or features something that can be construed as statutory rape, bestiality, pedophilia, incest, etc.

Quality control is being pushed hard because their indie dev friends' games failed and some porn game with questionable content completely eclipsed them (see Subverse). Wouldn't you be mad if your game was one-upped by a fucking porn game?

So, they really really want to take away your games, but they can't say so overtly because that looks extremely bad and regressive. They will deny it, and then celebrate afterwards. You can't take away their guns, but you can make ammo and magazines hard to come by.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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I don said:
Dreiko said:
I'm confused about why the polygon article which makes a point showing the advances that steam has made for these games and their success (that game they're talking about made it to the top sellers list) is anything negative.
Polygon does not like this game, make no mistake. It goes against everything they stand for. They have to act semiprofessional as to not appear as childish ranting. It disturbs them that people would buy such a game, and such game could be successful. It's an unraveling of progress made so far.

Koikatsu was made by the same company that made Rapelay. Since then that company has remade Rapelay twice under a different name, and the VR one with the schoolgirl, except nobody cares now because it's old news.

This entire genre is not friendly to what they stand for. Just think about the large percentage of porn that is non-consensual, or features something that can be construed as statutory rape, bestiality, pedophilia, incest, etc.

Quality control is being pushed hard because their indie dev friends' games failed and some porn game with questionable content completely eclipsed them (see Subverse). Wouldn't you be mad if your game was one-upped by a fucking porn game?

So, they really really want to take away your games, but they can't say so overtly because that looks extremely bad and regressive. They will deny it, and then celebrate afterwards. You can't take away their guns, but you can make ammo and magazines hard to come by.
The article reads like the writer is holding his nose the entire way definitely but no matter how one tries to portray this there's only one significant takeaway. Thanks to steam, Illusion managed to bring its games to a new audience legally and they were successful enough to make it into the top sold games of the month. Any and all spin one tries to attach to this win for gaming and gamer choice will only serve to reveal themselves for being the ones truly anti-gamer and being the ones who are actually trying to gatekeep the community from people who enjoy content they deem to be sinful.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Frankly, I feel doujin games should be critically analyzed and deconstructed first. Reason being that I find them in a poor artistic state.

Firstly, the multitude of self indulgent fantasies is groan worthy: harems, step siblings, vindictive cucking and various other fantasies that should be railed against than indulged in

Second the numerous themes such as rape, blackmail, and abusive power dynamics that are disgusting and offensive. Like, people got angry at Fifty Shades for its romanticism of abuse and poor depiction of BDSM, why not be angry at doujin games.

However, this move by Steam is a net positive as the good ones can finally be experienced and if enough attention is called to the bad ones, the medium may change for the better
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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Izanagi009 said:
Frankly, I feel doujin games should be critically analyzed and deconstructed first. Reason being that I find them in a poor artistic state.

Firstly, the multitude of self indulgent fantasies is groan worthy: harems, step siblings, vindictive cucking and various other fantasies that should be railed against than indulged in

Second the numerous themes such as rape, blackmail, and abusive power dynamics that are disgusting and offensive. Like, people got angry at Fifty Shades for its romanticism of abuse and poor depiction of BDSM, why not be angry at doujin games.

However, this move by Steam is a net positive as the good ones can finally be experienced and if enough attention is called to the bad ones, the medium may change for the better
I dunno, the concept "fantasy that should be railed against" is oxymoronic to me.

Should we also rail against games in which you fantasize about shooting or stabbing lots of people, for they let you indulge in at best flimsily justifiable murder, which is way worse than "vindictive cucking"?

If so, you are indeed with the Jack Thomsons of the world and are advocating against anything sinful in games because it's bad in reality.


I'm of the view that it being fantasy acts as a catharsis which lets people have an outlet for their darker tendencies, ones that exist in everyone in one form or another, and that by being fantasy it is by definition acceptable.

The only scenario in which fantasy is unacceptable is a religious authoritarian setting where "sinful thought" is a concept that is adhered to. I do not accept that that is a valid way to set society up. Action is what is or isn't sinful, fantasy which affects no persons and which doesn't take the form of a specific act towards someone is by definition impossible to be sinful.

Good people are not people without sinful thoughts or temptations or darker desires, those people, if they exist are either ignorant or sheltered. Good people are people who do not ACT on those fantasies in reality. Any attempt to label people as sinful for merely having these fantasies is only going to end in one outcome; people will realize that they will be branded as sinful either way and they will be less inhibited to act out in reality what they were not acting out until that point, since they're getting branded either way so there's less risk to doing so now. That's not the right way to go about this.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Dreiko said:
It's less the concept of sin that i'm advocating against and more the concept of escapism. Fantasies such as spree murder or sexual fantasies are something that to me is a delusion, a construct designed to diverge from reality rather than accept the reality of the situation; this ties into a complementary belief that reality is the only thing that should pervade the mind, not fantasy. This is the case with anime and anime games, their fantasies are such absurd delusions and escapist constructs that I would rather see them railed against for the sake of regrounding a person on reality.

As for the counter argument you presented, yes fantasy can be a catharsis but indulging in a cathartic action isn't always the best option. Ideally, deconstructing the tendency logically and discarding the thought process leading to the tendency would serve as better long term treatment of said tendencies. Using fantasies as a coping mechanism also runs the risk of the person become so ingrained in the fantasy that they divert from reality

Side note, please avoid making such an accusation as a "Jack Thompson". I am trying to moderate my rhetoric and making such an accusation doesn't make your argument look better in a debate sense

Edit: I will add one addendum to my statement. Yes, humanity can construct as many fantasies as they wish but one must always be capable of breaking them down just as quickly as to avoid the fantasy from overtaking reality
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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Izanagi009 said:
Dreiko said:
It's less the concept of sin that i'm advocating against and more the concept of escapism. Fantasies such as spree murder or sexual fantasies are something that to me is a delusion, a construct designed to diverge from reality rather than accept the reality of the situation; this ties into a complementary belief that reality is the only thing that should pervade the mind, not fantasy. This is the case with anime and anime games, their fantasies are such absurd delusions and escapist constructs that I would rather see them railed against for the sake of regrounding a person on reality.

As for the counter argument you presented, yes fantasy can be a catharsis but indulging in a cathartic action isn't always the best option. Ideally, deconstructing the tendency logically and discarding the thought process leading to the tendency would serve as better long term treatment of said tendencies. Using fantasies as a coping mechanism also runs the risk of the person become so ingrained in the fantasy that they divert from reality

Side note, please avoid making such an accusation as a "Jack Thompson". I am trying to moderate my rhetoric and making such an accusation doesn't make your argument look better in a debate sense

Edit: I will add one addendum to my statement. Yes, humanity can construct as many fantasies as they wish but one must always be capable of breaking them down just as quickly as to avoid the fantasy from overtaking reality
First, I wanna clarify that I wasn't as much aiming the Thomson remark at you personally but rather agreeing with a reference to him made in an earlier post about a general tendency. My bad that I wasn't precise enough with that remark.


Railing against escapism is...even more authoritarian than just railing against evil thoughts. I just can't fathom meddling in people's affairs whom I've no personal relationship to and judging them based on my criteria of how much escapism is healthy or on my determination of their adherence to reality.


I think you're correct that a lot of anime offer absurd escapism but that is actually a good thing because if you have the tools available to you, why offer something mundane. That's like going to a buffet with every food on the planet and only eating the free bread. Now, you can have a valid opinion of "I only like bread" or "anything but bread is bad for you" and you are entitled to it, but could you kindly mind your own business and stop blocking the pasta carbonara with your bread loafs? :p

In the end, it'll be something that each individual will have to be personally responsible for and not let their escapism affect the real world in a bad way. It's not our business to meddle in that affair.
 

gyrobot_v1legacy

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MrBoBo said:
As long as it can be filtered I don't care.
The major problem with that with Epic Exclusivity the idea of filtering them out will be moot because the library for Steam Games is only going to get MUCH smaller, and its all thanks to these cheap DLsite ports and porn games that is speeding the process of convincing devs to turn to Epic
 

Schadrach

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gyrobot said:
MrBoBo said:
As long as it can be filtered I don't care.
The major problem with that with Epic Exclusivity the idea of filtering them out will be moot because the library for Steam Games is only going to get MUCH smaller, and its all thanks to these cheap DLsite ports and porn games that is speeding the process of convincing devs to turn to Epic
So, you think "Steam doesn't ban porn games!" is a bigger determinant there than "Epic offered us enough money that we will at least break even even if we sell no copies at all, if we agree not to sell it on Steam"?
 
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Let them be. As long as the content doesn't break the law, these should be permitted.

Oh, and about the matter of quality: Yes most of those will be cheap ecchi garbage, but if there's no taboo on sexual content maybe more western devs(and talented eastern devs) will try to make something in that vein. And maybe someone will eventually spew out a decent game where nudity or sex isn't a detractor. You can't get better if you don't try.