What are your opinions on Red Dead Redemption 2 so far?

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

Muse of Fate
Sep 1, 2010
4,691
0
0
Since I'm pretty sure Youtube embedding doesn't work, here's SkillUp's review of RDR2 that I feel is pretty spot-on for a Rockstar game in general (positives and negatives) as I haven't play RDR2 myself (but played RDR1 and GTAs back in the day).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JRikiQyzLA

I don't really get how Rockstar's games get such great overall review scores when there's so much wrong with the games like he mentions. I still don't get how the open world of the games actually enhances the core of the game when all the missions are as linear as say The Order 1886. To me, the point of making a game open world is to allow for missions/objectives to be completed in various ways, which is completely not allowed in Rockstar's games. And, speaking of The Order 1886 that got completely shit on for its super basic 3rd-person cover shooting, all the shooting gameplay of RDR2 actually looks very much like what you do in The Order (which I actually played... it had Tesla ok and it was short).
 

dscross

Elite Member
Legacy
May 14, 2013
1,282
27
53
Country
United Kingdom
Phoenixmgs said:
Since I'm pretty sure Youtube embedding doesn't work, here's SkillUp's review of RDR2[/b that I feel is pretty spot-on for a Rockstar game in general (positives and negatives) as I haven't play RDR2 myself (but played RDR1 and GTAs back in the day).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JRikiQyzLA

I don't really get how Rockstar's games get such great overall review scores when there's so much wrong with the games like he mentions. I still don't get how the open world of the games actually enhances the core of the game when all the missions are as linear as say The Order 1886. To me, the point of making a game open world is to allow for missions/objectives to be completed in various ways, which is completely not allowed in Rockstar's games. And, speaking of The Order 1886 that got completely shit on for its super basic 3rd-person cover shooting, all the shooting gameplay of RDR2 actually looks very much like what you do in The Order (which I actually played... it had Tesla ok and it was short).



That?s one opinion, and a subjective one by all means especially when considering he apparently missed well over half the game (including many of the settings which would have likely made it more playable according to some of the comments). The thing is, while you?ve routinely emphasized the importance of the ?core? gameplay mechanics, or whatever you?re doing the most of as being a basis, there is no easy way to apply that to a game like RDR2. The scripted story thread only represents a fraction of what you can do, and how things can play out.

You?ve also said routinely that there is no such thing as objective criticism, but it kinda sounds like you?re attempting to apply that here; that a game which plays and more specifically controls like RDR2 cannot possibly be fun or even deemed as playable, when several other YouTuber?s have demonstrated the contrary. That is so because they are subjective elements that boil down to personal taste more than anything. Many people look for games that have nuance, weight, variety and physics to their mechanics and design on several facets, while people who don?t will ultimately ascribe these features as ?clunky?, ?boring?, etc.

This one [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RIXNn5A6bhk] for example may have a condescending tone, but gets a point across nonetheless.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

Muse of Fate
Sep 1, 2010
4,691
0
0
hanselthecaretaker said:
That?s one opinion, and a subjective one by all means especially when considering he apparently missed well over half the game (including many of the settings which would have likely made it more playable according to some of the comments). The thing is, while you?ve routinely emphasized the importance of the ?core? gameplay mechanics, or whatever you?re doing the most of as being a basis, there is no easy way to apply that to a game like RDR2. The scripted story thread only represents a fraction of what you can do, and how things can play out.

You?ve also said routinely that there is no such thing as objective criticism, but it kinda sounds like you?re attempting to apply that here; that a game which plays and more specifically controls like RDR2 cannot possibly be fun or even deemed as playable, when several other YouTuber?s have demonstrated the contrary. That is so because they are subjective elements that boil down to personal taste more than anything. Many people look for games that have nuance, weight, variety and physics to their mechanics and design on several facets, while people who don?t will ultimately ascribe these features as ?clunky?, ?boring?, etc.

This one [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RIXNn5A6bhk] for example may have a condescending tone, but gets a point across nonetheless.
I'm not trying to apply any kind of objective criticism. I'm just saying there is plenty of stuff in RDR2 that quite a decent amount of players won't like thus how the fuck does RDR2 or really any game get an overall average score from basically 100 different people with different opinions that's anywhere near 97? Sure there's people that may love it but there's also people that won't find it a good game as well. A movie getting say a 97+% Fresh rating is pretty damn rare and that 97% rating is just that 97% of critics liked it, that's not the average score. And a movie just has to stay great for about 2 hours to be great. While a game like RDR2 is probably at least 5 hours of cinematics and writing so it already has a steeper mountain to climb than a movie just on narrative and writing alone. Then since it's a game, it needs near perfect gameplay to score a near perfect score as well. So for RDR2 or any game attempting the type of experience RDR2 is aiming for needs both Oscar-caliber writing for longer than an Oscar-winning movie along with gameplay that is arguably the very best of the genre. The chances of 100 people all basically sharing that opinion is the only way for anything to score a freaking 97 and it is impossible for that much agreement on anything (whether a game or just pizza) from such a group of people.

I played RDR1 and from what I've read, heard, seen, RDR2 doesn't really do much to upgrade the gameplay and RDR1's controls were OK at best and there's no settings that made them good in that game. Sure the game was playable and all, I even was able to drag-scrope well while riding a horse but the controls weren't close to on par with the best 3rd-person shooting in gaming. I quit playing the game because of how basic the overall gameplay was. I'm not saying that proves the gameplay objectively average or bad as it's my opinion but I'm not nearly the only one that shares that opinion about Rockstar's games either.
 

Gergar12_v1legacy

New member
Aug 17, 2012
314
0
0
The aiming system on the controller could use some work as well. The gangs that just ambush you sometimes for no reason are also annoying. The first time I was ambushed I deserved it as I was hogtying people, and robbing them, but the second time was due to a mission which I had no control over.

The fact that the bounty system is so annoying, and stays with you till you pay it off is annoying. The story is very good even if you know how it will end. I don't know if it's just me, but in the end, the collection box for donations got taken away from me.
 

Baffle

Elite Member
Oct 22, 2016
3,459
2,746
118
I almost got caught in a threeway with a fat man and his sister/wife. Needless to say, I shot them both between the eyes (or as near the the aiming system would allow) and Molotov'd the house. I couldn't find a bath house so I stood in front on an oncoming train in the hope it would knock the filth off me. Which it did, in a way.
 

dscross

Elite Member
Legacy
May 14, 2013
1,282
27
53
Country
United Kingdom
Out of curiosity, has anyone cracked a safe (especially a train safe built into the wall) without dynamite? I?ve read you can use the ?dial? but there are no prompts and apparently the entire internet is incapable of explaining anything beyond ?move analog left and right til you hear click?. Also tried shotgun to break the hinges but ran out of shells. Apparently even throwing knives work if you hit them in the right spot. Haven?t been able to do that either personally.

The point is to do it quietly to avoid unwanted attention. I haven?t tried robbing a bank yet, but have also read there that cracking it quietly is the better option. The thing is, once again I haven?t found an explanation as to how that?s even possible. I?d rather not spoil anything with YouTube videos either.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

New member
Oct 1, 2009
2,552
0
0
hanselthecaretaker said:
Out of curiosity, has anyone cracked a safe (especially a train safe built into the wall) without dynamite? I?ve read you can use the ?dial? but there are no prompts and apparently the entire internet is incapable of explaining anything beyond ?move analog left and right til you hear click?. Also tried shotgun to break the hinges but ran out of shells. Apparently even throwing knives work if you hit them in the right spot. Haven?t been able to do that either personally.

The point is to do it quietly to avoid unwanted attention. I haven?t tried robbing a bank yet, but have also read there that cracking it quietly is the better option. The thing is, once again I haven?t found an explanation as to how that?s even possible. I?d rather not spoil anything with YouTube videos either.
As far as I know, all the in-game ways to crack a safe are high noise. You can also use high explosive bullets to blow them open, for example. The silent safe cracking, to the best of my knowledge, only shows up in main story missions, I've been unable to replicate the silent cracking outside of them.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

Alleged Feather-Rustler
Jun 5, 2013
6,760
0
0
I'm getting to a part where I feel like things are slowing down. I'm in New Orleans and dutch and the gang have ideas for robbing a bank, and a boat, and I think a bus station and that's it. I've ridden deep into the north, the south and the west and can't find any more side missions or little interactions. I used to run afoul of women pinned by horses, snake bit victims, trapped hunters, robbers, gangs setting up ambushes, everything! Every journey out was just filled with fun and gun play and impulsive manliness. Now it feels like the game turned Random_Fun=1 to Random_Fun=0

Also I've just now realized I've never robbed anyone. Outside the story mission tutorials, I've never robbed anyone on my own. There's no point. I have some $5k+, with a fully upgraded camp, just from story missions, looting bandits, and selling meat to butchers. Does anyone actually rob? Like board a train and rob it? Or hold up a stage coach? Or like go into a bank in Strawberry, all alone, and expect to guard the door, and rob the joint and shoot your way out? Is there a way to bring gang members with you? I might rob a train, just for fun, if I could get Lenny or John to come with...
 

dscross

Elite Member
Legacy
May 14, 2013
1,282
27
53
Country
United Kingdom
Gethsemani said:
hanselthecaretaker said:
Out of curiosity, has anyone cracked a safe (especially a train safe built into the wall) without dynamite? I?ve read you can use the ?dial? but there are no prompts and apparently the entire internet is incapable of explaining anything beyond ?move analog left and right til you hear click?. Also tried shotgun to break the hinges but ran out of shells. Apparently even throwing knives work if you hit them in the right spot. Haven?t been able to do that either personally.

The point is to do it quietly to avoid unwanted attention. I haven?t tried robbing a bank yet, but have also read there that cracking it quietly is the better option. The thing is, once again I haven?t found an explanation as to how that?s even possible. I?d rather not spoil anything with YouTube videos either.
As far as I know, all the in-game ways to crack a safe are high noise. You can also use high explosive bullets to blow them open, for example. The silent safe cracking, to the best of my knowledge, only shows up in main story missions, I've been unable to replicate the silent cracking outside of them.
Well that?s indirectly comforting. Although that along with the way the bounty system is currently set up really leads me to think Rockstar was trying to avoid abuse of the Wanted systems. They aren?t perfect by any means, but I could imagine how easy the game would be if all you had to do was ?be quiet? or ?avoid the law? out in vast swaths or open land. Maybe a patch will fine tune things more though, hopefully.
 

Baffle

Elite Member
Oct 22, 2016
3,459
2,746
118
I robbed a train and all I got was some canned fruit. That sounds like a terrible deal for the four guards and a driver I had to kill.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

New member
Oct 1, 2009
2,552
0
0
Silentpony said:
Also I've just now realized I've never robbed anyone. Outside the story mission tutorials, I've never robbed anyone on my own. There's no point. I have some $5k+, with a fully upgraded camp, just from story missions, looting bandits, and selling meat to butchers. Does anyone actually rob? Like board a train and rob it? Or hold up a stage coach? Or like go into a bank in Strawberry, all alone, and expect to guard the door, and rob the joint and shoot your way out? Is there a way to bring gang members with you? I might rob a train, just for fun, if I could get Lenny or John to come with...
The trick is to do those things just to follow the Bandit challenge line (pro-tip: Do rob someone in a town to get it started). Other then that, the game will punish you for trying to be an outlaw. Well, it will punish you for doing the Bandit challenges too, but at least you only have to do the challenges a few times each at the most.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

Alleged Feather-Rustler
Jun 5, 2013
6,760
0
0
Baffle2 said:
I robbed a train and all I got was some canned fruit. That sounds like a terrible deal for the four guards and a driver I had to kill.
See this is one thing I worry about. Without being a story mission, I have no idea if the take is worth it. I decided to buy a tip on a stagecoach that 'had a huge take' on it. So I held the coach up, killed some guards, bound and tied the driver, etc...and the big take? $10. Less than I would have made just hunting for 2 mins, especially considering that tip cost me $2, and with the bounties and ammo, I'm pretty sure that $10 robbery cost me $15.

Gethsemani said:
Silentpony said:
Also I've just now realized I've never robbed anyone. Outside the story mission tutorials, I've never robbed anyone on my own. There's no point. I have some $5k+, with a fully upgraded camp, just from story missions, looting bandits, and selling meat to butchers. Does anyone actually rob? Like board a train and rob it? Or hold up a stage coach? Or like go into a bank in Strawberry, all alone, and expect to guard the door, and rob the joint and shoot your way out? Is there a way to bring gang members with you? I might rob a train, just for fun, if I could get Lenny or John to come with...
The trick is to do those things just to follow the Bandit challenge line (pro-tip: Do rob someone in a town to get it started). Other then that, the game will punish you for trying to be an outlaw. Well, it will punish you for doing the Bandit challenges too, but at least you only have to do the challenges a few times each at the most.
But is there a reason to do the bandit challenges? Like I'm trying to do the more honorable path, because the bandit path seems nonsensical to me. I have plenty of money and don't feel bad after having killed a doctor and his wife to steal their rings. Like is there a very noticeable increase in money doing bandit challenges? A normal train robbery gets you a can of peaches, but a bandit challenge gets you $500?
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

New member
Oct 1, 2009
2,552
0
0
Silentpony said:
But is there a reason to do the bandit challenges? Like I'm trying to do the more honorable path, because the bandit path seems nonsensical to me. I have plenty of money and don't feel bad after having killed a doctor and his wife to steal their rings. Like is there a very noticeable increase in money doing bandit challenges? A normal train robbery gets you a can of peaches, but a bandit challenge gets you $500?
Completing all challenge trees gives you a special outfit. So basically, bragging rights. I've been putting off it, because as you say, you are swimming in money by the mid-game.
 

Johnny Novgorod

Bebop Man
Legacy
Feb 9, 2012
18,467
3,006
118
I like it a lot. Same strengths (story, dialogue, characters, world building, sweet moments of procedurally-generated randomness that makes exploration fun and immersive) and flaws (some awkward controls, repetitive streamlined missions) as the first one. So it feels pretty much like a next-gen upheaval: bigger and in some respects better.

I remember Yahtzee describing Skyrim as a sort of "watercooler games" where everybody gathers around to swap stories. I get a similar vibe from RDR2.
 

Catfood220

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 21, 2010
2,098
357
88
Baffle2 said:
I robbed a train and all I got was some canned fruit. That sounds like a terrible deal for the four guards and a driver I had to kill.
I decided to rob a train too, I even bothered to put on my mask. I think I got some extra bullets and a tin of fruit. I'm guessing that the trains you want to be hitting are the passenger trains so you can rob the people on board. Also, if you don't want to kill people, I find lassoing and hogtying people a great way to ease your conscience. If you can, I mean it might be a bit suicidal to try to fight a bunch of armed men with a rope.
 

dscross

Elite Member
Legacy
May 14, 2013
1,282
27
53
Country
United Kingdom
Catfood220 said:
Baffle2 said:
I robbed a train and all I got was some canned fruit. That sounds like a terrible deal for the four guards and a driver I had to kill.
I decided to rob a train too, I even bothered to put on my mask. I think I got some extra bullets and a tin of fruit. I'm guessing that the trains you want to be hitting are the passenger trains so you can rob the people on board. Also, if you don't want to kill people, I find lassoing and hogtying people a great way to ease your conscience. If you can, I mean it might be a bit suicidal to try to fight a bunch of armed men with a rope.
My first attempt at a train robbery was the Pacific Union and while it did have canned fruit, it also had several core restoration items and ammo types, along with a couple special items. I didn?t even get into the safe though, because I didn?t understand how to blast it open. Now that I do I?ll try again next time.

The thing about big tying though, is those people could end up alerting the law. But then again, killing anyone often increases bounty. I think after my next train robbery attempt I?m going to play nice for my first run through, if nothing other than to get the special items for high honor. Then I?ll try the dark side.
 

Baffle

Elite Member
Oct 22, 2016
3,459
2,746
118
Catfood220 said:
Also, if you don't want to kill people, I find lassoing and hogtying people a great way to ease your conscience. If you can, I mean it might be a bit suicidal to try to fight a bunch of armed men with a rope.
I generally find there are too many bullets in my gun and they just keep getting squeezed out, no matter how nice I try to be. I was all, like, 'Why, howdy fell-' BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! (My bounty appears to have a fairly direct correlation to the number of times I've killed people when I meant to say hello.)
 

Catfood220

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 21, 2010
2,098
357
88
hanselthecaretaker said:
The thing about big tying though, is those people could end up alerting the law. But then again, killing anyone often increases bounty.
Not usually a big problem, I know that my victims can get free after a while but by the time that might happen, I have looted them, their horse and anything that isn't nailed down and I am long gone and am onto my next bit of mischief. Of course you can be spotted by a witness and that will bring a bounty down on your head unless you deal with them or run away. But most of the time, it is a non fatal takedown that doesn't draw too much attention. And it doesn't always result in bounties. I ran into a treasure hunter who wasn't going to sell me the map he had. Obviously, I wanted that map, I could of killed him for it, but instead decided to hogtie him and take the map for myself. He then started pleading with me to let him go, something along the lines of "you've got the map, now let me go, please". I decided to be kind, thinking that things would end badly for him if he kicked off. I cut him loose and he got on his horse and ran away and I went along my merry way.

Of course, things do go wrong. I found two gentlemen trying without much success to open a small safe, they got annoyed by me getting interested. So, before things got shooty, I hogtied one of them and then the one who had started firing at me. As I was trying to figure out how to open the safe, one of them got free and tried to stab me, that didn't end well for him. Not wanting another surprise, I shot his friend in the head. Then I almost killed myself opening the safe when I misjudged the blast radius of the dynamite. Worth it for the $40 I got.

Damn, I love this game.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

Bound to escape
Legacy
Jul 15, 2013
4,953
6
13
After procurement of a copy that most certainly was not stolen from under an innocent human child's Christmas tree, it has been sinking huge times. Definitely worth the moral low-ground and lifelong hate from a bastard baby money. Arther become really endearing like a sort of misled idiot more lost in life than anything else. Great props to the voice actor for the heavy lifting there. And Dutch's voice actor sounds far too much like Jeff Bridges to not appreciate. Some curious but entertaining glitches and many little moments of discovery, intentional or otherwise. There was one glitch where the lamp became attached to my rifle and it looked pretty damn cool, so was very disappointed to find I couldn't replicate it afterwards. Have yet to complete the story, just taking time to savour the world, but have made enough progress to where things are getting hairy.

I try to be a good person, hogtying anybody who isn't a complete psycho, but some people do get easily aggravated, like that one sheriff who started shooting me just cause I stared at him too long or some shit. The 'defuse' button appeared for him while I was in his office, but was greyed out, both of which was confusing, so I moved closer to see if it would become available to press, but then he got mad, started shooting at me, a bounty appeared, then his matey boy started shooting, so I did the noble thing and reloaded the last save.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

New member
Oct 1, 2009
2,552
0
0
Xsjadoblayde said:
Arther become really endearing like a sort of misled idiot more lost in life than anything else. Great props to the voice actor for the heavy lifting there.
Arthur as a character really grows as the plot progresses. As you say, he starts of as this misled idiot but the further the game progresses, the more it becomes apparent that Arthur has a keen understanding of his own situation and realizes just where it is all headed. Doing some of the side quests also reveals an actually well done deliberation on his morality and life choices.