What do you think of the word "******"? [LOTS OF CURSE WORDS AHOY]

tippy2k2

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For myself, I always saw the word ****** the same as using the word ******. I really don't know why it makes me uncomfortable but it does. I'm not gay and I do not know anyone who is gay (or if they are, they aren't telling me) so I have no personal reason to dislike the word but I do.

Other people can use it all they want and I'm not going to complain; I'm just not going to be the one using it.
 

Jazoni89

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Dec 24, 2008
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This is what I think of the word ******.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(food)

Juicy, mouth watering meaty goodness, Mmmm...

What, I'm British after all, and that's the only faggots we have over here. We just call homosexuals, Gay's or Queers.

and...Fags are slang for cigarettes by the way.
 

BlackStar42

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Jan 23, 2010
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Honestly, when I hear it I just get hungry.

People who use it as an insult need to get a better imagination.
 

Lord Garnaat

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I've always see it the same way I've seen any slur: an ugly term only used by vulgar, crude, immature people who don't know how to use better words. It doesn't matter if you personally don't use it as an offensive term, because that's still what it means, and saying it constantly only serves as a way to show others how based and common you are.
 

orangeban

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I think it's a word that needs to die, and fast. It's all very well saying that most people just use it as a generic insult, but it has to be remembered that (particularly in America) it is still the primary slur used against gay people. Use of the word, usually, will bring to mind it's use and history as a slur and until this is no longer the case it should be treated as any other slur.

As for "politically correct" forums, I think that making a space safe and comfortable for members of oppressed groups is well worth losing the ability to use "fag" as a common insult.

Edit: Case in point of my first paragraph, in Britain no-one bats an eyelid when people refer to cigarettes as "fags" because the word doesn't have the associations and history it does in other places.

Double Edit, Extra Point: Also, these words can be very upsetting for many people. For example, I find transphobia and jokes about suicide very upsetting and triggering, due to negative experiences with both those things. What may just be a common insult to you can have much more serious effects on someone else. It is just plain courtesy to be careful.
 

Texas Joker 52

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Jun 25, 2011
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[ Please forgive the upcoming, semi-hostile rant: Its not directed at anyone in particular, especially not anyone posting here! ]

For me, I think as an insult entailing anything, its stupid. Sounds stupid, and makes someone look stupid whenever it comes out of their mouth. Seriously, there are better insults out there that don't automatically make me think of some homophobic 10 year old. Like 'Bitchtit'. Or 'Sack of Monkey-Shit'.

Though, that last one might also come from a 10 year old, if they're more imaginative. And/or hate monkeys.

Part of it is the fact that usually, it does have homophobic... I don't know, background? Another part is that, hell, its overused.

Still, as an insult, it makes me cringe. Not because its any good, but because of the opposite.
 

MC K-Mac

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Like the n-word, you're only allowed to use it if you are one. Otherwise, you're an asshole.
 

chadachada123

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I have no problem with it.

The word now, as far as how I and my friends use it, has nothing to do with homosexuality, in much the same way that saying that something is a "gyp" has nothing to do with the Roma people, and in the same way that saying someone "Jewed" me out has nothing to do with Judaism or the Jewish ethnicity.

I don't say it in formal speech, nor do I say it if I'm unsure of my company.

I think, in the long run, "fag" will go the same way that plenty of other words have gone.

A similar case includes the words "moron" or "idiot" or "lame" or even "dumb," and now "retarded," all of which were technical words for mental impairment not even 50 years ago but now are used by nearly-everyone in colloquial usage and don't carry a social stigma (at least for the first 4 words).

I laugh at the idea that using one of these words makes someone instantly immature or unintelligent, though. That line of thinking is baseless and doesn't take into account the fact that language changes pretty damn quickly.
 

Jazoni89

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orangeban said:
I think it's a word that needs to die, and fast. It's all very well saying that most people just use it as a generic insult, but it has to be remembered that (particularly in America) it is still the primary slur used against gay people. Use of the word, usually, will bring to mind it's use and history as a slur and until this is no longer the case it should be treated as any other slur.

As for "politically correct" forums, I think that making a space safe and comfortable for members of oppressed groups is well worth losing the ability to use "fag" as a common insult.

Edit: Case in point of my first paragraph, in Britain no-one bats an eyelid when people refer to cigarettes as "fags" because the word doesn't have the associations and history it does in other places.
Also, the term "bumming a fag" means you made the filter end of the cigarette wet.
 

orangeban

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Jazoni89 said:
orangeban said:
I think it's a word that needs to die, and fast. It's all very well saying that most people just use it as a generic insult, but it has to be remembered that (particularly in America) it is still the primary slur used against gay people. Use of the word, usually, will bring to mind it's use and history as a slur and until this is no longer the case it should be treated as any other slur.

As for "politically correct" forums, I think that making a space safe and comfortable for members of oppressed groups is well worth losing the ability to use "fag" as a common insult.

Edit: Case in point of my first paragraph, in Britain no-one bats an eyelid when people refer to cigarettes as "fags" because the word doesn't have the associations and history it does in other places.
Also the term "bumming a fag" means you made the filter end of the cigarette wet.
Really? I was under the impression that if you "bummed a fag" you were asking a friend to give you one, "Can I bum a fag of you?" Huh.
 

GartarkMusik

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I do believe it is derived from the faggoto, which is an early form of the modern bassoon.

But seriously, it's just another one of those dumb insults kids use that loses its sting with age.
 

Jazoni89

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orangeban said:
Jazoni89 said:
orangeban said:
I think it's a word that needs to die, and fast. It's all very well saying that most people just use it as a generic insult, but it has to be remembered that (particularly in America) it is still the primary slur used against gay people. Use of the word, usually, will bring to mind it's use and history as a slur and until this is no longer the case it should be treated as any other slur.

As for "politically correct" forums, I think that making a space safe and comfortable for members of oppressed groups is well worth losing the ability to use "fag" as a common insult.

Edit: Case in point of my first paragraph, in Britain no-one bats an eyelid when people refer to cigarettes as "fags" because the word doesn't have the associations and history it does in other places.
Also the term "bumming a fag" means you made the filter end of the cigarette wet.
Really? I was under the impression that if you "bummed a fag" you were asking a friend to give you one, "Can I bum a fag of you?" Huh.
It can mean both, but it entirely depends on the context.
 

Treblaine

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Title Question: that drill Sargent in Full Metal Jacket, he called so many people Faggots it lost all meaning. And general sweary american types, they seem to use it in the same way as "pussy" or any wimpy or insufficiently-macho men. Oh yeah, and that huge tobacco chewing Texan in the opening of Predator calling all the badasses on the helicopter "slack jawed faggots" for not being a "sexual tyrannosaur" like he was.

I can't actually think of any example of the term "******" be used explicitly to describe or imply actual homosexuality in a man, that seem to be the use of the term "Fag" that it seems many gay men have tried to claim back with varying success. The phrase "do if ******" seems to be the tautological equivalent of "don't be a pussy". I understand they have the same meaning but it's clear saying "he's a fucking fag" is a lot more homophobic than "do it ******".

All this is confused by how in the UK "fag" is an innocent term for a Cigarette to the point that is ONLY what they call Cigarettes. So in the UK is someone says they are going to "pop out back and smoke a fag" it's not what you think it means.

 

Xanadu84

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However you want to slice it, "******" was rapidly adopted as a derogatory term for homosexuals. Barring childhood innocence, people know this. And as with most offensive words and phrases, you certainly have a right to say it, and people have a right to judge your character poorly because of what you say. The fact remains that if you are willing to risk letting people feel bullied and marginalized, even if your intent is not to bully or marginalize, you still took a conscious, completely optional action that you knew could hurt people simply because you like the word. That is still a bully.

If you use of a word that can hurt someone you either A) Valued a word you like that has plenty of other, less ambiguous substitutions more then you value the well-being of fellow human beings (Translation: you're an asshole) B) You genuinely believes that the people listening are fine with the use of the word based on your personal experience with them (In which case, if they are offended, you don't have to fall on your sword, but you do owe a short, sincere apology) or C), You are a professional comedian, writer, or entertainer where the use of a offensive word serves a purpose, and the audience should expect such digressions from normal decency standards. Louis CK can say, "******" in his show because people know that he is going to say dirty, inappropriate things. If he just started spouting his act on a subway to whoever is around, that would be in bad taste. Chances are pretty good that if this conversation actually comes up in the real world, then scenario A is probably in effect.

Also, there is a serious problem with the idea of "It's used as a general insult, not a slur" This is not an excuse. The word came to be a term for gay people, used by people being cruel. But nonetheless, it still is a word that is supposed to mean a homosexual person. It is insulting to equate a word that means something bad with a gay person. If a person named Adam is being mocked, and he is called, "A total Todd", because Todd is a kid no one likes, then that insult is offensive to Adam sure, but its MORE offensive to Todd. Calling a person a "******" because they are a failure implies that Homosexual=failure. If you heard 2 gay people talking about Hitler, and they refer to him as, "A total Breeder", you would probably be offended. And rightly so! The the use of a word that means a sexuality as a word that means something bad implies that that that sexuality is inheritly bad, and the words are interchangeable.

Basically, if you use the word, "******", you own your slur. If someone is hurt, that's your fault. If everyone laughs because they understand the context, that's your boon. If you use the word for a legitimate reason and it offends people, you have to balance the true value of the message with the true value of disregarding and harming a fellow humans well-being. And if people think your a dick, that's no ones fault but your own, because you brought it on yourself. "Idiot" is one extra letter. Unless your afraid of running out of sound, theres no reason you can't use that instead.
 

MMSouthpawVIII

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Honestly, just this

Captcha: learn the ropes
*****, I'm the lurker extraordinaire
 

orangeban

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Xanadu84 said:
However you want to slice it, "******" was rapidly adopted as a derogatory term for homosexuals. Barring childhood innocence, people know this. And as with most offensive words and phrases, you certainly have a right to say it, and people have a right to judge your character poorly because of what you say. The fact remains that if you are willing to risk letting people feel bullied and marginalized, even if your intent is not to bully or marginalize, you still took a conscious, completely optional action that you knew could hurt people simply because you like the word. That is still a bully.

If you use of a word that can hurt someone you either A) Valued a word you like that has plenty of other, less ambiguous substitutions more then you value the well-being of fellow human beings (Translation: you're an asshole) B) You genuinely believes that the people listening are fine with the use of the word based on your personal experience with them (In which case, if they are offended, you don't have to fall on your sword, but you do owe a short, sincere apology) or C), You are a professional comedian, writer, or entertainer where the use of a offensive word serves a purpose, and the audience should expect such digressions from normal decency standards. Louis CK can say, "******" in his show because people know that he is going to say dirty, inappropriate things. If he just started spouting his act on a subway to whoever is around, that would be in bad taste. Chances are pretty good that if this conversation actually comes up in the real world, then scenario A is probably in effect.

Also, there is a serious problem with the idea of "It's used as a general insult, not a slur" This is not an excuse. The word came to be a term for gay people, used by people being cruel. But nonetheless, it still is a word that is supposed to mean a homosexual person. It is insulting to equate a word that means something bad with a gay person. If a person named Adam is being mocked, and he is called, "A total Todd", because Todd is a kid no one likes, then that insult is offensive to Adam sure, but its MORE offensive to Todd. Calling a person a "******" because they are a failure implies that Homosexual=failure. If you heard 2 gay people talking about Hitler, and they refer to him as, "A total Breeder", you would probably be offended. And rightly so! The the use of a word that means a sexuality as a word that means something bad implies that that that sexuality is inheritly bad, and the words are interchangeable.

Basically, if you use the word, "******", you own your slur. If someone is hurt, that's your fault. If everyone laughs because they understand the context, that's your boon. If you use the word for a legitimate reason and it offends people, you have to balance the true value of the message with the true value of disregarding and harming a fellow humans well-being. And if people think your a dick, that's no ones fault but your own, because you brought it on yourself. "Idiot" is one extra letter. Unless your afraid of running out of sound, theres no reason you can't use that instead.
Bravo! This is exactly how I feel how the subject, you put it very well!

Extra thoughts on the idea of comedians, the thing with comedians using slurs and stereotypes in their acts is, I think it's appropriate if they actually go somewhere with the idea. If the joke is more than, "LOL, those crazy black people!" or "LOL I said fag!" and is actually a satire of those slurs/stereotypes, or those things are part of a deeper joke or something like that. However, if a joke really is just "Aren't [minority] funny!" I think that is in bad taste, even if the audience are expecting that.
 

DevilWithaHalo

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MC K-Mac said:
Like the n-word, you're only allowed to use it if you are one. Otherwise, you're an asshole.
Hey! My sphincter is offended! That is our word, you can only use asshole if you're an asshole. And I, my good sir, am indeed an asshole. I'm also a dick, and let me tell you, it gets complicated being a dick and an asshole at the same time, but damn you can have some nasty fun doing it!