What makes the Empire in Star Wars evil?

[Stalk3rchief]

You also have to look at the Moffs. I don't think a single Moff was good, in any way. Hell, some of them hunted random people for giggles on planets that they controlled, and the Empire endorsed this. Most Moffs have people killed simply for being in an area they don't like, or an area that they like and want. It's like Soviet Russia all the time everywhere but 100 times worse.

 

[CommanderL]

(most Star Wars fans treat the prequels as non-canon, but that's another conversation)

Wait, what?
A lot of fans might not like the prequels, but to completely disregard a trilogy of movies that were, after all, made by the universe's creator himself, seems a bit extreme.

Plus, what actually counts as a Star Wars fan? What about all the kids born after 1990 that treat the prequel trilogy as part of their childhood, and therefore actually like it, do they count?

The prequels break continuity with the rest of the Star Wars universe. Obi-wan doesn't meet Anakin when he's a fighter pilot in the Clone Wars

Obi-Wan just states that Luke's father was the galaxy's best starfighter pilot during the Clone Wars, not that this was when he met him.

Luke and Leia's mother doesn't live on Alderaan with Leia.

When do they say that?

Yoda is not portrayed as a teacher but more of a badass lightsaber fighter which is completely out of character

Most of the time we see him in the prequels he's being on the Jedi council, training younglings, discussing matters with Mace or Obi-Wan or counseling Anakin when he's troubled. Sure he has to fight (there being a war and all), but he's not proud of it. Think Mr Miyagi from The Karate Kid - wise teacher, but also capable of being a badass fighter if necessary.
Also, keep in mind that Yoda's lived for 900 years, and he probably did more fighting during the Clone Wars than in a whole "normal" century.

Not to mention the huge plot holes between the two series. Let's hide one of Darth Vader's kids on his home planet with his only surviving family? Hiding something in the first place he'd look for it? Genius! (The original story had Obi-Wan hiding Luke from Vader and the Emperor with some hicks, who we wasn't related to, in a far "corner" of the galaxy.)

Again, when is that stated? When Obi-Wan tells Luke about his father, he informs him that his uncle had been lying to him, but he doesn't say anything about Owen not being his uncle (nor does the script). Yes, it is a plothole, but one that was present in the original trilogy.

When Obi-Wan talks about Luke's father in a New Hope we was already a great fighter pilot before becoming a Jedi. Anakin was never just a fighter pilot.

In the original trilogy it is reasonable to assume that Luke has been hidden from his father in a remote location. That makes sense. In the prequels it suddenly becomes Darth Vader's home planet and thus stops making any kind of sense. Unless Darth Vader is believed to be so inept that the most obvious place to hide something from him is the last place he would look. In that case, why not just enlist Luke in the Imperial Military? Ha Ha! Vader would never suspect that his best TIE pilot was his son!

Luke and Leia discuss their mother in Return of the Jedi. Leia has memories of her mother indicating that their mother didn't die in childbirth. That was actually kind of a shocker in the prequels because you knew Padme lived to see Leia at least for a while. It had been established in canon. Then oops! Retroactive continuity! (I HATE retroactive continuity, it's the stupidest and laziest form of story-telling. Basically the author can't be bothered to remember things he's written).

Um yeah i'm a bit of a Star Wars fan

Or leia could have been talking about her adoptive mother who may have also died when she was young

 

[RandV80]

The snip that broke the scissors

0.0 ........cool story, needed more dragons (seriously, that's an insightful wall o' text)

OT: Well the Empire in Star wars can be considered evil for one simple reason: the lack of multiracialism. For a so-called democracy the only people in the original sequels on the empire's side running the show are humans, whereas you only go back 30-odd years to the horribly inefficient democratic republic there were hundreds, perhaps thousands of species serving on the senate.
That's just one, if you want more, see the post above me.

Actually something about the whole 'multi cultural' element of Star Wars stinks. It's like a US Presidential election race, where you have the 'Evil Empire' Republicans whose voter base consists almost entirely of white people, and the 'Rebel' Democrats who are also run mostly by white people but have the coalition support of the Black, Hispanic, and Asian voters. The Star Wars universe is basically an expanded microcosm of the United States. Mostly humans/white people that may or may not mix with a minority of aliens/minorities.

Stop and think about it for a moment. There are apparently tons of different alien races in Star Wars. And everything indicates that general technology for space travel and weapons have been around for a very long time, to the point that space fairing tech is basically gunpowder in the 21st century. Under these circumstances no singular race should be able to dominate the entire galaxy. And if one specific race is able to go xenophobic and try it then there should be signs of other races doing the same.

So... the point I'm really trying to make is since the multicultural aspect of Star Wars is poorly thought out and unrealistic it shouldn't count against the empire as a point for them being evil!

Even the better thought out Star Trek universe suffers a little from this. Sure you have competing species that act realistically in opposition to humanity like the Klingons or the Romulans, but for our side we aren't just humans but a United Federation of planets and species... whose starfleet consists primarily of humans with a few aliens mixed in here and there for flavour.

 

[Mr Mystery Guest]

As a citizen under Lord Darth Vader I felt secure under his rule. With his policy of dominion rule enforced by clones and androids I would never be conscripted to fight in a foreign war.
Now because of the political instability I am expected to attend guard duty three days in every ten because the neighbouring system keeps raiding our agricultural plantations. This would never have been allowed with the efficient threat of a superior force. I am just happy my son is in college learning Media Studies and will escape the draft for three years.

When the Rebels started their campaign did they have any adequate policies on agricultural crop rotations? Certainly not, in my community the cost of grain is astronomical. And Healthcare is now non-existent. Vader believed that a healthy population was a productive one but since the Rebellions "victory" many are now malnourished and we have had cases of rickets and polio that was thought eradicated. The sadist concern pertains to the surviving homeless Storm-troopers.

Our community is awash with these pitiful veterans begging for change. Their genetic makeup prohibits them to think for themselves and search for work, but most tragically of all, they are preyed upon by sexual deviants. Their inability to refuse orders leaves them vulnerable to sexual predators and they are routinely raped and abused. Vagrant Storm-troopers have the highest percentage of Space Aids than any other ethnic group.

To all the Rebel Fighters out there, drunkenly gloating and looking for spoils of war I just want to say that you did not fight for my freedom. And get a job.

 

[danp164]

As a citizen under Lord Darth Vader I felt secure under his rule. With his policy of dominion rule enforced by clones and androids I would never be conscripted to fight in a foreign war.
Now because of the political instability I am expected to attend guard duty three days in every ten because the neighbouring system keeps raiding our agricultural plantations. This would never have been allowed with the efficient threat of a superior force. I am just happy my son is in college learning Media Studies and will escape the draft for three years.

When the Rebels started their campaign did they have any adequate policies on agricultural crop rotations? Certainly not, in my community the cost of grain is astronomical. And Healthcare is now non-existent. Vader believed that a healthy population was a productive one but since the Rebellions "victory" many are now malnourished and we have had cases of rickets and polio that was thought eradicated. The sadist concern pertains to the surviving homeless Storm-troopers.

Our community is awash with these pitiful veterans begging for change. Their genetic makeup prohibits them to think for themselves and search for work, but most tragically of all, they are preyed upon by sexual deviants. Their inability to refuse orders leaves them vulnerable to sexual predators and they are routinely raped and abused. Vagrant Storm-troopers have the highest percentage of Space Aids than any other ethnic group.

To all the Rebel Fighters out there, drunkenly gloating and looking for spoils of war I just want to say that you did not fight for my freedom. And get a job.

Not to mention the sad loss of life of all the valued imperial personnel stationed on both death stars, the rebellions defense of "The empire blew up a planet" seem a little pale when you consider, the rebellion blew up two "Planet Sized" space stations, and while I'm sure some found the command level decisions taken on the death star to be morally reprehensible, I am fairly certain those decisions were not made by the thousands of support staff and janitorial staff.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

No, I think a more accurate example would be the US dropping two atomic bombs killing roughly 200 thousand people in short order as a demonstration of ungodly power in order to intimidate Japan into surrendering instead of a prolonged conventional campaign that would have drug on for years and likely resulted in deaths that would number closer to the millions.

Your comparison is inaccurate.

Japan is a separate country that was currently at war with the United States when the nuking occured.

Alderaan was not a separate country, it was part of the Empire(Leia was an Imperial Senator representing her home planet of Alderaan.) It was not at war with the Empire denoted by the repeated claim by everyone in the movies that it is/was a peaceful world.

The closest approximation of a real world version would be if Obama nuked Ohio to make sure no one thought about rising up against him.

 

[beastro]

They allow free, unrestricted trade and are only brutal to those who wish to bring back a fractious, corrupt and decaying Republic.

Alderaan was a part of the Rebellion from the very beginning. It could be argued that the Rebellion began on it since it's monarchy was was at the heart of it from the very beginning.

The Rebels had been a bug bear for too long, a demonstration was needed.

As someone once said:

Nations do not survive by setting examples for others.
Nations survive by making examples of others

 

[Josh123914]

As a citizen under Lord Darth Vader I felt secure under his rule. With his policy of dominion rule enforced by clones and androids I would never be conscripted to fight in a foreign war.
Now because of the political instability I am expected to attend guard duty three days in every ten because the neighbouring system keeps raiding our agricultural plantations. This would never have been allowed with the efficient threat of a superior force. I am just happy my son is in college learning Media Studies and will escape the draft for three years.

When the Rebels started their campaign did they have any adequate policies on agricultural crop rotations? Certainly not, in my community the cost of grain is astronomical. And Healthcare is now non-existent. Vader believed that a healthy population was a productive one but since the Rebellions "victory" many are now malnourished and we have had cases of rickets and polio that was thought eradicated. The sadist concern pertains to the surviving homeless Storm-troopers.

Our community is awash with these pitiful veterans begging for change. Their genetic makeup prohibits them to think for themselves and search for work, but most tragically of all, they are preyed upon by sexual deviants. Their inability to refuse orders leaves them vulnerable to sexual predators and they are routinely raped and abused. Vagrant Storm-troopers have the highest percentage of Space Aids than any other ethnic group.

To all the Rebel Fighters out there, drunkenly gloating and looking for spoils of war I just want to say that you did not fight for my freedom. And get a job.

that's actualy a ood point against the Republic as well, think about everything pre-clone wars. Maybe it was just that CGI costs a whole bunch but we see way more humans than we do other species on other planets (disregarding the species where said planet is their homeworld)

 

[Snotnarok]

Since everyone mentioned the planet, how about their management choking out the ones that screwed up?

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

In the movies, the Imperials/Dark Side are a democratic republic, they kept the galaxy in peace, they only blew up Alderaan because the enemy was gathering there and they allowed freedom to express emotion while the light side of the force achieved none of this.

*Note that I am excluding the latest movies because they were just garbage.

The Empire wasn't a democratic republic, it was an absolute dictatorship. That is as far removed from a democratic republic as one can get and still be talking about systems of government.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Was probably said a million times by now but...

There was that one time they...umm...blew up an entire planet that had no weapons.

Granted, that's where the rebels were getting their leadership/funding, but still...millions of deaths, including civilians and kids. Not cool, bro.

 

[tmande2nd]

1) They commit Genocide on Alderan since that in NO way was a measured response
2) They torture people quite clearly.
3) They kill members of their own forces for making mistakes
4) They are incredibly racist and actively persecute aliens
5) They discriminate against droids even clearly helpful and bright ones
6) They plunder and rob from aliens and humans alike
7) They murder and imprison anyone they want
8) They are led by a war criminal who caused the deaths of BILLIONS just to get power
9) They create super weapons of unimaginable power with the full intention to use them
10)They enslave people and work them to death at will


While they dont show all this the Empire is still a bunch of monsters.

 

[Vault Citizen]

In the movies, the Imperials/Dark Side are a democratic republic, they kept the galaxy in peace, they only blew up Alderaan because the enemy was gathering there and they allowed freedom to express emotion while the light side of the force achieved none of this.

*Note that I am excluding the latest movies because they were just garbage.

1) the emperor desolated the senate in a new hope. How can it be a democratic republic with an emperor who has got rid of the main representative planet

2) Alderaan was the home planet of some of the resistance but not of the resistance itself. Plus it was peaceful and didn't have any weapons

3) Yes it has been argued that the Jedi ultimately did more harm than good by keeping a lid on their emotions but they only tried to keep a lid on the emotions of their own members. Even then it waa a policy of "beware extrene emotion' rather than 'be robots'

 

[Uncreation]

Man, look at all the people hating on the Empire. Vader should force-choke you all. Srsly though, i much prefer the Empire to that lame Republic, even though the Empire is evil.

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Why_Do_We_Fight_the_Empire%3F
This is apparently the rebel Alliance's manifesto. Alderaan was only one of several hundred worlds sympathetic to their cause.

Beyond all that, the simple fact that the entire government has been ruled almost solely by a cackling hooded madman straight from Flash Gordon for twenty years having abolished any kind of term limit might give you a clue. In the original trilogy any time an Imperial Officer encounters an alien he expresses his disgust which should give you an idea of how prejudiced they are against all alien species. Also, no female Imperial officers to be found anywhere.

 

[FalloutJack]

In the movies, the Imperials/Dark Side are a democratic republic, they kept the galaxy in peace, they only blew up Alderaan because the enemy was gathering there and they allowed freedom to express emotion while the light side of the force achieved none of this.

*Note that I am excluding the latest movies because they were just garbage.

Let's not go into that 'they only' business with the blowing up of a planet. They only blew up a planet when all they had to do was blow up a base. They only had to blow up a planet when all they had to do was pay someone off to rat the Rebels out. They only had to blow up a planet because- Wait, wasn't it just Leia's home and there WASN'T a rebel gathering there?

 

[Gatx]

Because history is told by the victors, who obviously want to make themselves look good, and who are the victors and therefore the main characters of Star Wars? The Rebels.

I'm just going to say they were a big oppressive Empire, won't say anything about them being xenophobic or anything. That's actually just an extension of EU writers noticing and stretching the fact that there weren't any aliens in the Empire in the films. Hell, there weren't even any aliens in the Rebellion either (other than Chewbacca) until Return of the Jedi.

 

[JoJo]

Considering if I recall correctly the Imperial Senate was disbanded permanently by the Emperor at the beginning of IV, I wouldn't call the Empire "democratic", besides the Emperor was pretty much making most of the decisions before that point.

Secondly, if you think blowing up an entire planet containing billions of innocent men, women and children because the rebels were gathering there, you may need to rethink your moral system. If you were to put it in real life terms, it'd be like the U.S. nuking the entirety of Iraq or Afghanistan because there happens to be anti-western militants somewhere in those countries.

Finally they summarily executed Luke's uncle and aunt because they bought a droid with sensitive information on, hardly sounds like a fair democratic republic to me.

Uh. I don't know where you get your information, but democracies WOULD kill people for having sensitive information.

I mean its beena long time since I watched it, but isn't it info on the death star isn't it? The biggest super weapon they have? That ensures the safety of the empire by acting as a rebel deterrent and would cost untold amounts of credits?

Why WOULDN'T they kill them? If they even got a glimpse of those schematics, its all over. Not the first time a democracy has killed someone for having sensitive information, especially if they can send it to your enemies.

Source please, I've never heard of any democracy summarily executing one of their own citizens for accidentally coming across sensitive information. The UK hacker with Aspergers who hacked U.S. military computers and got caught up in a long extradition case for example, I don't remember him and his family being summarily executed in their home, funny that.

Apart from that, so why wouldn't they kill them? Perhaps because they're random moisture farmers who would probably understand the schematics as much as you or I would understand the blueprint for a nuclear reactor, and who would have no motivation to pass on the data to the rebellion.

 

[JoJo]

Considering if I recall correctly the Imperial Senate was disbanded permanently by the Emperor at the beginning of IV, I wouldn't call the Empire "democratic", besides the Emperor was pretty much making most of the decisions before that point.

Secondly, if you think blowing up an entire planet containing billions of innocent men, women and children because the rebels were gathering there, you may need to rethink your moral system. If you were to put it in real life terms, it'd be like the U.S. nuking the entirety of Iraq or Afghanistan because there happens to be anti-western militants somewhere in those countries.

Finally they summarily executed Luke's uncle and aunt because they bought a droid with sensitive information on, hardly sounds like a fair democratic republic to me.

Uh. I don't know where you get your information, but democracies WOULD kill people for having sensitive information.

I mean its beena long time since I watched it, but isn't it info on the death star isn't it? The biggest super weapon they have? That ensures the safety of the empire by acting as a rebel deterrent and would cost untold amounts of credits?

Why WOULDN'T they kill them? If they even got a glimpse of those schematics, its all over. Not the first time a democracy has killed someone for having sensitive information, especially if they can send it to your enemies.

Source please, I've never heard of any democracy summarily executing one of their own citizens for accidentally coming across sensitive information. The UK hacker with Aspergers who hacked U.S. military computers and got caught up in a long extradition case for example, I don't remember him and his family being summarily executed in their home, funny that.

Apart from that, so why wouldn't they kill them? Perhaps because they're random moisture farmers who would probably understand the schematics as much as you or I would understand the blueprint for a nuclear reactor, and who would have no motivation to pass on the data to the rebellion.

That's normal computers. Nothing important is linked outside, its all closed circuit. Unless he walked onto a base, he couldn't steal anything.

Not understanding what they saw? Funny that America has a case like that where they assumed the same thing.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-rosenberg-trial-begins

As for information, its this case that prompted America to make its military industrial complex into an arcane maze. You can't assume people won't understand it, because they don't have to other than just pass it along for monetary gain. Especially when a message tied to the data practically says "the rebellion wants this."

and when a regular old droid with no special protections to ensure the data isn't copied, would the Empire trust random people that they didn't do anything? For something so big? Having a blueprint of a weapon of mass destruction to the point it kills entire planets is kinda beyond hacking into a military computer. By a wide margin.

It makes sense the empire killed them and burnt down the house. Information like that can get you a pretty penny anywhere, especially the rebellion which was obvious.

When a rebellion exists, you need to realize that anyone could be against you. Its the reason they call it a rebellion and not regular war. You need to be that much more careful with secrets.

Your source is irrelevant because the Rosenberg's were sentenced to death in a trial for the crime of deliberately selling military secrets. They were not summarily executed by soldiers without trial and they were convicted for selling the information, not accidentally obtaining it. Unless you can provide a source of a situation that is actually equivalent, then I don't believe your claim.