What should have been done about WW?

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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May 17, 2011
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Armadox said:
Kill R&P. Same stuff as WW with a coat of civility. Lock it and start from off-topic.
American Tanker said:
Armadox said:
Kill R&P. Same stuff as WW with a coat of civility. Lock it and start from off-topic.
That too.

Re-open WW, nuke R&P from orbit, add a new "no targeted harassment" rule to WW.
Why take away a subforum from other users simply because you do not like the discussion? It is easy for people to avoid politics by staying out of the politics section if they do not want to hear about it. If you don't want to read about role play, you don't go to the role play forums that is no reason to take it away from those who enjoy it. The same applies to R&P. R&P on this site is remarkably tame compared to some of the other gaming sites. As far as I can remember, numerous early gaming sites all made R&P sections ages ago to keep Politics and Jesus in the Basement. It is common for gaming and politics to mix frequently due to RTS community and so many of us nerds in gaming do enjoy discussing real world events, as you can only discuss what game mechanics are superior only so many times before it gets old.

R&P cannot possibly disappear before the Brexit is complete and the Russia investigation ends! Discussing things civilly is what they expect of everyone anyhow regardless of topic. Besides, I have seen "Anime is cartoons!" and "Nintendo is the best!" Threads become much more vile than R&P anyhow. R&P is fairly mild compared to many of the actual gaming discussions.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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May 17, 2011
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Marik2 said:
Make a rule about no death threats and excessive bullying. (This is what most want)

No more call out threads, because that just clogged up the place and took out the fun.

If possible, make the Wild West not appear on the main page.

Maybe have a good mod in place that actually understands the Wild West and is fair and balanced?
People could not even see the WW forum unless they are Publishers Club and logged in anyhow. It was not originally supposed to appear on the front page, not sure why it ever would have been.
 

American Tanker

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Feb 25, 2015
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Marik2 said:
Make a rule about no death threats and excessive bullying. (This is what most want)

No more call out threads, because that just clogged up the place and took out the fun.

If possible, make the Wild West not appear on the main page.

Maybe have a good mod in place that actually understands the Wild West and is fair and balanced?
[HEADING=1]ALL OF THIS.[/HEADING]
 

Souplex

Souplex Killsplosion Awesomegasm
Jul 29, 2008
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Let's enjoy having a site not covered in Weebs and Nazis. I see no downside.
 

American Tanker

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Feb 25, 2015
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Souplex said:
Thanks for making it clear where you stand. I may be known as a humorless asshole(and won't deny it because it is true), but I'd still rather have somewhere we can just vent and talk about random bullshit.
 

Armadox

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Aug 31, 2010
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Lil devils x said:
Armadox said:
Kill R&P. Same stuff as WW with a coat of civility. Lock it and start from off-topic.
American Tanker said:
Armadox said:
Kill R&P. Same stuff as WW with a coat of civility. Lock it and start from off-topic.
That too.

Re-open WW, nuke R&P from orbit, add a new "no targeted harassment" rule to WW.
Why take away a subforum from other users simply because you do not like the discussion?
I want you to reread that sentence, then look at where WW was. I want you to read it again. Either they both stay albeit modified, or they both should go for the same basic reason, they're toxic and should NOT exist as present. Personally, I'm all for both going as long as it kills R&P, a forum for people who's minds will never be changed to scream at each other from across the world in a means that has no end goal or positive save pissing each other off and having a mod ban someone until one of the members is left. Mods could be better used elsewhere. Actually... Mods COULD be better used elsewhere. How about we put R&P in the spot WW was, without a mod or rules. If it's superior to the WW cause it has a point, then it'd obviously never turn into a shit show right? Not have members calling out others for being Nazi's right? Not have passive aggressive spite turn into actual aggression. Right?

Ban R&P.
 

Dr. Thrax

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Dec 5, 2011
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American Tanker said:
but I'd still rather have somewhere we can just vent and talk about random bullshit.
Make a Discord server then.
You can pick your mods, make your own rules, choose your topics, have voice chats, share all the porn you want - if any -, and you can even get some fun emotes.

Ooorrr look for some other place you can bullshit around? I've had to do that multiple times when things changed on sites I frequented, or the community changed and I felt like I didn't fit in anymore.

Things change.
Adapt.
 

TopazFusion

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Dec 11, 2011
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Armadox said:
Just to put this to bed once and for all; R&P was originally created because too many people were making too many threads about religion and politics on the Off-Topic board. The number of threads was significant enough that it caused many complaints from Off-Topic patrons who really didn't want to see threads about religion or politics. The number of threads was also significant enough that they would be enough to sustain their own subforum. And so the subforum was eventually created.
(As an aside, we saw a repeat of this when the GID subforum was created, because there were lots of complaints from people who were sick of seeing gamergate threads everywhere, and there were enough gamergate threads at the time to warrant their own subforum.)

So it's not quite as simple as just closing R&P, because if we did that, those threads would all start appearing in Off-Topic again.
To do what you're proposing, we would have to close R&P and also ban the R&P topics/subjects completely.

And in my years of experience on this forum, people here reeeeally don't like it when you ban a topic from being discussed entirely.
 

Armadox

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Aug 31, 2010
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Dr. Thrax said:
American Tanker said:
but I'd still rather have somewhere we can just vent and talk about random bullshit.
Make a Discord server then.
You can pick your mods, make your own rules, choose your topics, have voice chats, share all the porn you want - if any -, and you can even get some fun emotes.

Ooorrr look for some other place you can bullshit around? I've had to do that multiple times when things changed on sites I frequented, or the community changed and I felt like I didn't fit in anymore.

Things change.
Adapt.
Things do change, and that swings both ways. It's the shitposters today, it might be what you come here for tomorrow.

The fact of the matter is: Everyone showed up here for their own reasons, and putting people in seats is how you keep something like this running. And if this WAS just bought by an ad agency, well keeping retention is half the fucking game. Carving out a chunk of the forum, abruptly, after the shitposters literally raised the dead to defend their hole in the wall was a fowl play. Telling a whole subset of the membership to suck it up, and go somewhere else? That's not how to keep a community stocked. That's not how to make sure everyone has a space. Killing WW cause it doesn't have good optics when kowtowing before a regime change so they can still be mods? That sounds pretty likely. That's the reason I'm actually expecting. But they're giving up all sort of agency, the ability to barter and stand by their community by doing this. I've said my mind on the fact Defy might have the keys, but the community actually is who's driving this place. Fuck the CoC, rewrite your own, put it up top. I know the community content stuff fell through cause no one could post it, but that was a great idea. That had potential. I'm still waiting for that version of the Escapist...

You can pretend the WW didn't happen, but it's only going to lead to more people leaving, or picking up pissing matches elsewhere in the forum.

The only thing I don't agree on it WW ever being on the front page. That's poor luck. I think, I think now would be the time for everyone to express more then anything what they WANT from this site. Why they are here, and try to find common ground. Not telling people to leave.
 

Armadox

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Aug 31, 2010
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TopazFusion said:
Armadox said:
Just to put this to bed once and for all; R&P was originally created because too many people were making too many threads about religion and politics on the Off-Topic board. The number of threads was significant enough that it caused many complaints from Off-Topic patrons who really didn't want to see threads about religion or politics. The number of threads was also significant enough that they would be enough to sustain their own subforum. And so the subforum was eventually created.
(As an aside, we saw a repeat of this when the GID subforum was created, because there were lots of complaints from people who were sick of seeing gamergate threads everywhere, and there were enough gamergate threads at the time to warrant their own subforum.)

So it's not quite as simple as just closing R&P, because if we did that, those threads would all start appearing in Off-Topic again.
To do what you're proposing, we would have to close R&P and also ban the R&P topics/subjects completely.

And in my years of experience on this forum, people here reeeeally don't like it when you ban a topic from being discussed entirely.
I don't actually expect R&P to be banned, but any argument that can be said for WW can easily be said toward R&P. It's the... the principle of it. The fact that it's essence is combative in nature, designed to create conflict amongst users. Giving those hooligans their own pigsty WAS the right decision. Bout now you're propping up one subforum that has questionable value, while stripping another of theirs. That... you have to see how this wasn't the right choice.

But, most are ok with some rules changes to minimize the harassment. That's, I feel that is necessary. But you're going to get those same WWers in R&P and off-topic, doing the same thing that you split R&P off for. Posting where they can in a way that disrupts the flow.

Neither R&P or WW has anything to do with gaming, should it be reset back to where only the original purpose remains?
 

American Tanker

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Feb 25, 2015
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Armadox said:
I think now would be the time for everyone to express more then anything what they WANT from this site.
Myself, I just want somewhere where I can have focused discussions on topics of interest. Even now, in its apparent death throes(in the time before we found out that the Escapist has been apparently bought up), I felt I could have better discussions about singular, specific topics than most anywhere else I'd been; and it's also still been generally more active than the forums over on EmuParadise.

So that's what I want. Somewhere where there's still a certain degree of anonymity, even if it's not full anonymity like 4chan or 8chan, and is more focused into specific topics unlike FaceBook or Twitter. The Escapist generally offers that, AND it's one of the few sites to actually treat the whole #GamerGate issue relatively fairly, unlike Reddit or pretty much every other major gaming site.
 

Souplex

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Jul 29, 2008
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American Tanker said:
Souplex said:
Thanks for making it clear where you stand. I may be known as a humorless asshole(and won't deny it because it is true), but I'd still rather have somewhere we can just vent and talk about random bullshit.
That's what Off Topic is for. Just don't be a Weeb, a Nazi, or a terribly toxic person.
 

Drathnoxis

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TopazFusion said:
To do what you're proposing, we would have to close R&P and also ban the R&P topics/subjects completely.
That sounds like a good solution. R&P is the greatest divider and source of animosity there is. The Escapist exists as a place to discuss nerd culture, people forming grudges against each other because they're on the other side of some unrelated political issue is only an impediment to this purpose.

Maybe it's too late for that now, though, since everybody already knows where the lines in the sand are. Shamus Young's site generally is a far more hospitable for discussions about games, in large part due to the no R&P rule.
 

Thaluikhain

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Yeah, always thought WW was a bad idea to begin with. Getting rid of it all of a sudden with no warning, not keen on that either, but won't miss it.
 

American Tanker

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The Rogue Wolf said:
Souplex said:
That's what Off Topic is for. Just don't be a Weeb, a Nazi, or a terribly toxic person.
Did an anime fan attack your father's village or something?
Someone once beat up Souplex with a body pillow depicting Bismarck from Kantai Collection. That's all I can really think of.
 

DarthCoercis

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Happy that R&P exists so it stays out of off-topic, never have and will not give a rat's arse about WW. Wait, WW got closed? Meh. I'll be over here, looking for fucks to give in this dumpster.