What should have been done about WW?

Lil devils x_v1legacy

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Armadox said:
Lil devils x said:
Armadox said:
Kill R&P. Same stuff as WW with a coat of civility. Lock it and start from off-topic.
American Tanker said:
Armadox said:
Kill R&P. Same stuff as WW with a coat of civility. Lock it and start from off-topic.
That too.

Re-open WW, nuke R&P from orbit, add a new "no targeted harassment" rule to WW.
Why take away a subforum from other users simply because you do not like the discussion?
I want you to reread that sentence, then look at where WW was. I want you to read it again. Either they both stay albeit modified, or they both should go for the same basic reason, they're toxic and should NOT exist as present. Personally, I'm all for both going as long as it kills R&P, a forum for people who's minds will never be changed to scream at each other from across the world in a means that has no end goal or positive save pissing each other off and having a mod ban someone until one of the members is left. Mods could be better used elsewhere. Actually... Mods COULD be better used elsewhere. How about we put R&P in the spot WW was, without a mod or rules. If it's superior to the WW cause it has a point, then it'd obviously never turn into a shit show right? Not have members calling out others for being Nazi's right? Not have passive aggressive spite turn into actual aggression. Right?

Ban R&P.
That is far from true, not only have I had a change of heart due to a conversation I had in R&P, I have seen the same in many others there as well. You may not see it often, but when someone thinks the other person is right and rethinks their position, they do actually tell the person who has a point they have a point and expands their understanding. Over my years in R&P I have seen that happen more often than I thought I would.

From my perspective, if someone does not want to be called a Nazi, do not promote Nazi Ideals. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it should be okay to call it a duck. We have had people on this site say " I am literally Hitler" and promote that nonsense, to say you should not call someone a Nazi when they are admittedly a Nazi, promote Nazi Ideals, or promote White Nationalism, is saying you cannot all them what they actually are defining themselves as through their position. That is not the same as calling someone a racial slur, it is calling out specific political beliefs that are extremely harmful to the majority of people on the planet and that promote the extreme harm of others. White Nationalism, White supremacy, Nazism, and other racist Vitriol is not what should be considered an accepted position to start from when you are discussing actual policies to be implemented. The very existence of such beliefs means to harm other groups and is insulting to persons they are speaking with.

Calling someone Racist, Sexist or a Nazi is not in any way the equivalent of calling someone a racial slur, nor should it be treated as such. It is not being called " a word" or a "bad name" it has a specific definition that is determined by the positions and beliefs that are being promoted. It is more like calling someone a democrat, republican, liberal or conservative. Yes, you can misuse the words sexist, racist and Nazi, liberal or conservative but people misuse words all the time, and their misuse should be addressed as such. If the position taken is not racist, sexist or like a Nazi, then it can easily be shown to be the case. Due to our worlds actual history of Racism, Sexism and Nazism, I do not see those as being " off limits" in any way for discussion as that is what we sadly have to fight against in our current political climate so that hopefully one day, our Children's children will not have to deal with it as much as we have.

To try to put racial slurs on the same level with actual harmful political beliefs, only serves to protect and legitimize the racist beliefs in the first place. There should be no protection or legitimization of the promotion of Nazi ideals. Doing that just allows people to promote Nazi Ideals by using another name and not allow anyone to call it what it is.
 

Leg End

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Drathnoxis said:
Biggest problem with the WW was that it showed up the the "latest posts" box. That's the fatal flaw of the whole thing. R&P, Advice, GID, Forum Games, Roleplaying, none of them show up in the latest posts box. WW, however was created after the Tech Team was dumped, and nobody else was able to exclude a subforum like that, despite their best efforts.

So something that should have been tucked away was instead displayed right in the public eye, whether you wanted to visit it or not.

And also R&P shouldn't be allowed. That was the other fatal flaw.
Entirely this. Just nix it from the Latest Posts and hang a sign on the door saying Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here.
 

Souplex

Souplex Killsplosion Awesomegasm
Jul 29, 2008
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The Rogue Wolf said:
Souplex said:
That's what Off Topic is for. Just don't be a Weeb, a Nazi, or a terribly toxic person.
Did an anime fan attack your father's village or something?
Weebs ruined Fire Emblem.
Also, they keep shoving their creepy fanservice fests in my face.

Geekdom is a rigid hierarchy. At the top we have tabletop gamers, and those who like fantasy/sci-fi movies/novels. The "Elder statesmen" if you will.
Below that we have console gamers and multiplatform gamers.
Somewhere around the middle we have console fanboys.
At the bottom we have Weebs, Furries, Militant PC gamers, Larpers, and any other group that could be classified as "Chan Scum".
As an Alpha Geek it is my duty to enforce our traditional hierarchy, and remind the Weebs of their place.
 

crimson5pheonix

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TopazFusion said:
Armadox said:
To do what you're proposing, we would have to close R&P and also ban the R&P topics/subjects completely.
Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your news letter. Let's do it. R&P is nothing but grumpy killjoys anyway. They can yell at each other elsewhere.
 

Armadox

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Aug 31, 2010
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Lil devils x said:
Armadox said:
Lil devils x said:
Armadox said:
Kill R&P. Same stuff as WW with a coat of civility. Lock it and start from off-topic.
American Tanker said:
Armadox said:
Kill R&P. Same stuff as WW with a coat of civility. Lock it and start from off-topic.
That too.

Re-open WW, nuke R&P from orbit, add a new "no targeted harassment" rule to WW.
Why take away a subforum from other users simply because you do not like the discussion?
I want you to reread that sentence, then look at where WW was. I want you to read it again. Either they both stay albeit modified, or they both should go for the same basic reason, they're toxic and should NOT exist as present. Personally, I'm all for both going as long as it kills R&P, a forum for people who's minds will never be changed to scream at each other from across the world in a means that has no end goal or positive save pissing each other off and having a mod ban someone until one of the members is left. Mods could be better used elsewhere. Actually... Mods COULD be better used elsewhere. How about we put R&P in the spot WW was, without a mod or rules. If it's superior to the WW cause it has a point, then it'd obviously never turn into a shit show right? Not have members calling out others for being Nazi's right? Not have passive aggressive spite turn into actual aggression. Right?

Ban R&P.
But, but... If we didn't have the R&P how would we know who was racist?
My arm is not long enough for the wank off motion I feel having read what you wrote. Because everything you wrote boils down to "I want the R&P so that I can call out those who I feel are wrong politically." But, let's put it like this, if R&P was banned completely, you wouldn't be talking to anyone for long that pursues those conversations. They'd have to, what was it, find somewhere else? You wouldn't get their political views, and thus wouldn't have to pick at them. More over, R&P is bad for advertising, which this place might have just been bought by. It's why Youtube melted down twice. I guess the whole argument on why R&P should be banned outright should be "Don't start none, won't be none." Which is how you handle almost every other irl conversation you have with strangers right? You're not going to defend the R&P in a way that makes it better then WW, because it's not. It's just got a better coat of paint.
 

Souplex

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American Tanker said:
Souplex said:
Weebs ruined Fire Emblem.
Quit your belly-aching. Would you honestly rather that series go the way of F-Zero?
No, I'd rather it go the way of Mario: They keep cranking out solid games while staying true to themselves.

So we've established that I've got a good reason for hating the Weebs, what's your excuse for hating ponies?
 

American Tanker

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Souplex said:
No, I'd rather it go the way of Mario: They keep cranking out solid games while staying true to themselves.
You and I both know that Fire Emblem would never be able to compete at Mario's level. Hardly anyone knew of its existence outside Japan until Super Smash Brothers Melee came out and featured Marth and Roy as part of the cast.

Besides, how many spin-off series does Mario have to his name, anyway? You really want a Fire Emblem Kart, or FE Tennis or some crap like that?

And as far as ponies are concerned, I've just never been interested. Have always thought the show was just far too saccharine for my tastes. But daring to say that you're not a fan of ponies on Know Your Meme made the fucking Bronies descend upon me like a horde of angry bees. Even here, it seems like I can't escape them, just look at Worgen. Never watched the show, never will. I've seen enough from images I've seen on the internet to know I'd never like it.
 

Souplex

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American Tanker said:
Souplex said:
No, I'd rather it go the way of Mario: They keep cranking out solid games while staying true to themselves.
You and I both know that Fire Emblem would never be able to compete at Mario's level. Hardly anyone knew of its existence outside Japan until Super Smash Brothers Melee came out and featured Marth and Roy as part of the cast.

Besides, how many spin-off series does Mario have to his name, anyway? You really want a Fire Emblem Kart, or FE Tennis or some crap like that?

And as far as ponies are concerned, I've just never been interested. Have always thought the show was just far too saccharine for my tastes. But daring to say that you're not a fan of ponies on Know Your Meme made the fucking Bronies descend upon me like a horde of angry bees. Even here, it seems like I can't escape them, just look at Worgen. Never watched the show, never will. I've seen enough from images I've seen on the internet to know I'd never like it.
Honestly I'm fine with there being a Fire Emblem Warriors spin-off.
Fire Emblem came to the states the moment we knew of its existence, and it thrived the moment they started advertising it. If they could keep advertising it, but take out the weebery it'd be fine.

People wouldn't shove ponies down your throat if you didn't react with such vitriol.
 

Johnlives

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Lil devils x said:
Armadox said:
Lil devils x said:
Armadox said:
Kill R&P. Same stuff as WW with a coat of civility. Lock it and start from off-topic.
American Tanker said:
Armadox said:
Kill R&P. Same stuff as WW with a coat of civility. Lock it and start from off-topic.
That too.

Re-open WW, nuke R&P from orbit, add a new "no targeted harassment" rule to WW.
Why take away a subforum from other users simply because you do not like the discussion?
I want you to reread that sentence, then look at where WW was. I want you to read it again. Either they both stay albeit modified, or they both should go for the same basic reason, they're toxic and should NOT exist as present. Personally, I'm all for both going as long as it kills R&P, a forum for people who's minds will never be changed to scream at each other from across the world in a means that has no end goal or positive save pissing each other off and having a mod ban someone until one of the members is left. Mods could be better used elsewhere. Actually... Mods COULD be better used elsewhere. How about we put R&P in the spot WW was, without a mod or rules. If it's superior to the WW cause it has a point, then it'd obviously never turn into a shit show right? Not have members calling out others for being Nazi's right? Not have passive aggressive spite turn into actual aggression. Right?

Ban R&P.
That is far from true, not only have I had a change of heart due to a conversation I had in R&P, I have seen the same in many others there as well. You may not see it often, but when someone thinks the other person is right and rethinks their position, they do actually tell the person who has a point they have a point and expands their understanding. Over my years in R&P I have seen that happen more often than I thought I would.
If I pointed out that conversations that happened in Wild West gave me a change of heart, that there are now some Weebs I can tolerate, would you also defend the existence of the Wid West.
 

American Tanker

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Souplex said:
...Take out the weebery [&] it'd be fine.
So then it's basically just a Lord of the Rings game at that point. Or Game of Thrones, whichever you'd prefer. But I think that would make the series feel too generic and derivative. The only thing it would have going for it at that point is being a turn-based tactics game instead of a larger scale strategy game; but it would otherwise be just a bog standard medieval fantasy setting.

Do you really think it would be as popular as it is without the fanservice? I'd say the FE Fates censorship controversy actively helped sales, even if it was for the wrong reasons. At least it drummed up interest and drew attention.
 

Souplex

Souplex Killsplosion Awesomegasm
Jul 29, 2008
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American Tanker said:
Souplex said:
...Take out the weebery [&] it'd be fine.
So then it's basically just a Lord of the Rings game at that point. Or Game of Thrones, whichever you'd prefer. But I think that would make the series feel too generic and derivative. The only thing it would have going for it at that point is being a turn-based tactics game instead of a larger scale strategy game; but it would otherwise be just a bog standard medieval fantasy setting.

Do you really think it would be as popular as it is without the fanservice? I'd say the FE Fates censorship controversy actively helped sales, even if it was for the wrong reasons. At least it drummed up interest and drew attention.
No, if you take out the Waifus, fanservice, and bad writing, it'd be Fire Emblem again. Most people play it because they like the gameplay, and they merely tolerate the weebery.
 

American Tanker

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Souplex said:
Two of those things are what enabled the series to become as popular as it is today. You really want to take those out? Just because you don't like them?

The bad writing, that's mostly because "localizers" don't understand their place and are trying to push agenda bullshit instead of translating accurately. That needs to be dealt with. But outside of that one issue that's not really the fault of the developers, you're really saying that you want the series to go back to being ultra-niche?
 

Souplex

Souplex Killsplosion Awesomegasm
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American Tanker said:
Souplex said:
Two of those things are what enabled the series to become as popular as it is today. You really want to take those out? Just because you don't like them?

The bad writing, that's mostly because "localizers" don't understand their place and are trying to push agenda bullshit instead of translating accurately. That needs to be dealt with. But outside of that one issue that's not really the fault of the developers, you're really saying that you want the series to go back to being ultra-niche?
Weebery is ultra-niche too. Let's get it out of that niche so it's more accessible to the public.
And no, translating shit badly is not what makes it shit. FE 7-10 had stories and writing that ranged from solid to amazing
 

Tsun Tzu

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Souplex said:
American Tanker said:
Souplex said:
Two of those things are what enabled the series to become as popular as it is today. You really want to take those out? Just because you don't like them?

The bad writing, that's mostly because "localizers" don't understand their place and are trying to push agenda bullshit instead of translating accurately. That needs to be dealt with. But outside of that one issue that's not really the fault of the developers, you're really saying that you want the series to go back to being ultra-niche?
Weebery is ultra-niche too. Let's get it out of that niche so it's more accessible to the public.
And no, translating shit badly is not what makes it shit. FE 7-10 had stories and writing that ranged from solid to amazing
The weeb shit is literally what saved the series.

I don't mean in terms of quality. I mean in terms of sales.
 

American Tanker

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LostGryphon said:
The weeb shit is literally what saved the series.

I don't mean in terms of quality. I mean in terms of sales.
What Souplex refuses to understand, quite plainly. Without the waifus and the fanservice, Fire Emblem would be treated the same way F-Zero is:

Smash memes.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

More Lego Goats Please!
May 17, 2011
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Johnlives said:
Lil devils x said:
Armadox said:
Lil devils x said:
Armadox said:
Kill R&P. Same stuff as WW with a coat of civility. Lock it and start from off-topic.
American Tanker said:
Armadox said:
Kill R&P. Same stuff as WW with a coat of civility. Lock it and start from off-topic.
That too.

Re-open WW, nuke R&P from orbit, add a new "no targeted harassment" rule to WW.
Why take away a subforum from other users simply because you do not like the discussion?
I want you to reread that sentence, then look at where WW was. I want you to read it again. Either they both stay albeit modified, or they both should go for the same basic reason, they're toxic and should NOT exist as present. Personally, I'm all for both going as long as it kills R&P, a forum for people who's minds will never be changed to scream at each other from across the world in a means that has no end goal or positive save pissing each other off and having a mod ban someone until one of the members is left. Mods could be better used elsewhere. Actually... Mods COULD be better used elsewhere. How about we put R&P in the spot WW was, without a mod or rules. If it's superior to the WW cause it has a point, then it'd obviously never turn into a shit show right? Not have members calling out others for being Nazi's right? Not have passive aggressive spite turn into actual aggression. Right?

Ban R&P.
That is far from true, not only have I had a change of heart due to a conversation I had in R&P, I have seen the same in many others there as well. You may not see it often, but when someone thinks the other person is right and rethinks their position, they do actually tell the person who has a point they have a point and expands their understanding. Over my years in R&P I have seen that happen more often than I thought I would.
If I pointed out that conversations that happened in Wild West gave me a change of heart, that there are now some Weebs I can tolerate, would you also defend the existence of the Wid West.
You do realize I already have been defending the WW? I do not want either removed.
 

Armadox

Mandatory Madness!
Aug 31, 2010
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Lil devils x said:
Johnlives said:
Lil devils x said:
Armadox said:
Lil devils x said:
Armadox said:
Kill R&P. Same stuff as WW with a coat of civility. Lock it and start from off-topic.
American Tanker said:
Armadox said:
Kill R&P. Same stuff as WW with a coat of civility. Lock it and start from off-topic.
That too.

Re-open WW, nuke R&P from orbit, add a new "no targeted harassment" rule to WW.
Why take away a subforum from other users simply because you do not like the discussion?
I want you to reread that sentence, then look at where WW was. I want you to read it again. Either they both stay albeit modified, or they both should go for the same basic reason, they're toxic and should NOT exist as present. Personally, I'm all for both going as long as it kills R&P, a forum for people who's minds will never be changed to scream at each other from across the world in a means that has no end goal or positive save pissing each other off and having a mod ban someone until one of the members is left. Mods could be better used elsewhere. Actually... Mods COULD be better used elsewhere. How about we put R&P in the spot WW was, without a mod or rules. If it's superior to the WW cause it has a point, then it'd obviously never turn into a shit show right? Not have members calling out others for being Nazi's right? Not have passive aggressive spite turn into actual aggression. Right?

Ban R&P.
That is far from true, not only have I had a change of heart due to a conversation I had in R&P, I have seen the same in many others there as well. You may not see it often, but when someone thinks the other person is right and rethinks their position, they do actually tell the person who has a point they have a point and expands their understanding. Over my years in R&P I have seen that happen more often than I thought I would.
If I pointed out that conversations that happened in Wild West gave me a change of heart, that there are now some Weebs I can tolerate, would you also defend the existence of the Wid West.
You do realize I already have been defending the WW? I do not want either removed.
... I like you.
 

Lil devils x_v1legacy

More Lego Goats Please!
May 17, 2011
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Armadox said:
Lil devils x said:
Armadox said:
Lil devils x said:
Armadox said:
Kill R&P. Same stuff as WW with a coat of civility. Lock it and start from off-topic.
American Tanker said:
Armadox said:
Kill R&P. Same stuff as WW with a coat of civility. Lock it and start from off-topic.
That too.

Re-open WW, nuke R&P from orbit, add a new "no targeted harassment" rule to WW.
Why take away a subforum from other users simply because you do not like the discussion?
I want you to reread that sentence, then look at where WW was. I want you to read it again. Either they both stay albeit modified, or they both should go for the same basic reason, they're toxic and should NOT exist as present. Personally, I'm all for both going as long as it kills R&P, a forum for people who's minds will never be changed to scream at each other from across the world in a means that has no end goal or positive save pissing each other off and having a mod ban someone until one of the members is left. Mods could be better used elsewhere. Actually... Mods COULD be better used elsewhere. How about we put R&P in the spot WW was, without a mod or rules. If it's superior to the WW cause it has a point, then it'd obviously never turn into a shit show right? Not have members calling out others for being Nazi's right? Not have passive aggressive spite turn into actual aggression. Right?

Ban R&P.
But, but... If we didn't have the R&P how would we know who was racist?
My arm is not long enough for the wank off motion I feel having read what you wrote. Because everything you wrote boils down to "I want the R&P so that I can call out those who I feel are wrong politically." But, let's put it like this, if R&P was banned completely, you wouldn't be talking to anyone for long that pursues those conversations. They'd have to, what was it, find somewhere else? You wouldn't get their political views, and thus wouldn't have to pick at them. More over, R&P is bad for advertising, which this place might have just been bought by. It's why Youtube melted down twice. I guess the whole argument on why R&P should be banned outright should be "Don't start none, won't be none." Which is how you handle almost every other irl conversation you have with strangers right? You're not going to defend the R&P in a way that makes it better then WW, because it's not. It's just got a better coat of paint.
1) do not put words in my mouth. If we do not have R&P we still discuss these things, just it happened in other forums on this site, still does from time to time. Usually Mods move those threads to R&P eventually though. That is why R&P was created in the first place. R&P is not there "to find out who is racist". it is there to discuss policy implementation and current events that affect people's actual lives. You may think that is what it is for, but the people having actual discussions in there do not. I always start out from the position that people are not racist, sexist, or even an arse until they give me a good enough reason to believe otherwise.

Your entire view of "picking at people" rather than actually weighing pros and cons of different policies and expanding understating of the topics being discussed is probably why we do not see you participate more in the actual conversations as that is not what it is about at all. I generally do not treat people any different on here than I do in person. Some of those that actually do know me in person have told me that I am actually nicer online. Maybe that is because I have the delete button here and can remove what I wrote before posting it and IRL I do not.
 

Drathnoxis

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American Tanker said:
LostGryphon said:
The weeb shit is literally what saved the series.

I don't mean in terms of quality. I mean in terms of sales.
What Souplex refuses to understand, quite plainly. Without the waifus and the fanservice, Fire Emblem would be treated the same way F-Zero is:

Smash memes.