what the heck did they do to Raven's costume (and Raven in general) in the new DC 52?

[JimB]

My specific problems are that the whole thing looks really mismatched and low effort.

Low effort I'll grant, but how so mismatched?

I guess she is a teenager and therefore of limited means, but Spider-Man did a better job than she did, and he wasn't much older or richer when he started out.

He did, however, have a professional wrestling organization's costume supplier to make his outfit for him.

 

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Honestly I've never been much of a fan of the New 52, same with Marvel's Ultimate universe. Yeah they have some interesting bits but largely its forgettable and bland. Raven's new outfit, meh. The new Titans, meh. Everything since Flashpoint, meh. About the only thing DC I look forward to nowadays is the animated movies. Funny, the can actually do some pretty good animated movies but try to do a major motion picture, that isn't Batman, and it all falls apart. But that's a whole other rant.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Spoiler

Is the TBF Avenger meant to be a pun?

I doubt it. The first few issues of the new comic did involve a plot where she is sent back in time to World War 2.

Ah. I was assuming it was a reference to her being a member of The Avengers, which would e funny.

I guess it could be both. That plane had a lot of fire power for its day didn't it? It would be like saying she was the most powerful avenger?

Actually, forget that last quote. I'm an idiot and I'm getting my planes mixed up. That's not even an Avenger, it's an SBD Dauntless Dive bomber.

 

[shintakie10]

Starfire has red hair and is orange. The Blond is Cassie aka Wonder Girl aka don't call her Wonder Girl.

I still don't like that quirk, why wouldn't you choose to have your name emulate one of the most well known female heroes on the planet? Or are they going for the "I got my own, I'm independant!" angle. It's so forced.

Going by Raven's inception it seems they're going through a kind of Path to good angle with her and Beast Boy may be a guide to rejecting Trigon's powers and influence. That could lead to a costume to at least have some aspects of the original.

At the moment though even for a demonic look it's a little inelegant and over designed. If she is pretending with the Titan's at least attempt to look less... Every Villain Is Lemons :/

They did that in some way with all of them. Superboy isn't the original Superboy but a clone of the Superboy clone. Bart Allen, or Kid Flash is not Barry Allen's,the original Flash, grandkid from the future, but some random terrorist called Barr Tor. Tim Drake was retconned a few months into the 52 to be using the name Tim Drake as an alias because he's in the witness protection program. And he was never a Robin. And when I say retconned I mean that within the 52 there was an issue of Batman that listed Tim as a Robin, and then later in the 52 it is stated that he was never Robin. People were able to pick up their new 52 comics they purchased months before and notice the discrepancy.

I dont think that stuff had to do with tryin to change things up. I honestly think they just wanted to kill off the Titans as fast as they could for whatever reason. Its extremely startling how quickly they went from interesting with kind of strange, but fun, storylines to Kid Flash is a future terrorist and Superboy is actually an evil clone of the cloned Superboy while Red Robin totally isn't actually Red Robin.

I get that a lot of the offshoots of the Titans that started with the new52 crashed and burned pretty badly (see The Ravagers, or don't because it was terrible) which lead to some really forced introductions and character arcs, but it wasn't that bad. Yet DC seems to have thought it was the worst shit ever and started a scorched earth policy for the series and pretty much destroyed every character they could get their hands on. Red Robin, Bunker, Superboy, Kid Flash, Cassie. All of em just, blammo with the stupid gun. The only ones that aren't basically insane are Beast Boy and Solstice, but considerin they outright stated they plan to kill off the current incarnation of the Titans I have this feelin that the only ones makin it out are Raven and Beast Boy.

Speakin of Solstice, only good point in this entire Titans run so far. She's interestin, is drawn beautifully, and because she's basically just giant plumes of smoke and cosmic energy she doesn't have a ridiculously revealing costume. I'm really pulling for her to not die in the crossover arcs, but considerin she and Beast Boy are the only two not stupid Titans left I expect her to die a terrible terrible death since between the two Beast Boy has far more name recognition (and he appears to be integral to whatever god storyline they have planned for Raven)

edit - I have a dollar that says they just replace everyone, but with the real versions this time. They've already said Wally is coming back in some form. The real Tim Drake hasn't been spotted anywhere since they've retconned Red Robin into not being Tim Drake. It'd be piss easy to get the real Superboy back since the new Superboy is just a clone of the clone. Not sure what to do about Cassie considerin she's supposed to be the real Cassie, but at the same time maybe they can use her team dying to unstupid her. Maybe Skitters will actually appears again too since she basically just vanished and the writers seem to have forgotten about her.

double edit - Wait, when did Beast Boy go green again? Last I saw he was still red because dumb reasons.

 

[Lieju]

Also looking at that team-pic, why isn't Beast Boy half-naked? Since wouldn't he be the kind of character where that would make perfect sense, being animalistic, and having shape-shifting powers?

Let's not kid ourselves, if Beast Boy's and Raven's genders were reversed, the amount of the clothing they wear would be as well.

I think you might be mistaken Raven for StarfireWonder Girl.

StarfireWonder Girl is the blond tits. Raven's technically the most covered of the entire team, with only her mouth showing.

Not saying you don't have a point, you very much do and I completely agree but your post had me in scrolling back up in confusion several times to figure it out.

Has Raven's design changed, then? From that team picture, you can't really see her costume. I was talking about the designs in general, not just how they look in that particular picture.

She might technically be covered (I'm not sure if that grey is her skin or skin-tight... something) but if the costume hugs the form so closely the character might just as well be naked I'm not sure what difference it makes.

That new design for Raven is very bird-like and animalistic, not really qualities I remember being assosiated with Raven.

 

[Hagi]

Also looking at that team-pic, why isn't Beast Boy half-naked? Since wouldn't he be the kind of character where that would make perfect sense, being animalistic, and having shape-shifting powers?

Let's not kid ourselves, if Beast Boy's and Raven's genders were reversed, the amount of the clothing they wear would be as well.

I think you might be mistaken Raven for StarfireWonder Girl.

StarfireWonder Girl is the blond tits. Raven's technically the most covered of the entire team, with only her mouth showing.

Not saying you don't have a point, you very much do and I completely agree but your post had me in scrolling back up in confusion several times to figure it out.

Has Raven's design changed, then? From that team picture, you can't really see her costume. I was talking about the designs in general, not just how they look in that particular picture.

She might technically be covered (I'm not sure if that grey is her skin or skin-tight... something) but if the costume hugs the form so closely the character might just as well be naked I'm not sure what difference it makes.

That new design for Raven is very bird-like and animalistic, not really qualities I remember being assosiated with Raven.

It's skin-tight stuff I think. Do believe that makes a difference, most superheroes generally wear skin-tight stuff that leaves quite little to the imagination.

Difference being mostly that beneath the male skin-tight stuff there's generally an idealized male form while beneath the female skin-tight stuff there's generally an sexualized female form.

Mostly just that your comment confused me since it seemed to imply the gal in red was Raven as she is wearing a lot less than all the men in the picture. Raven is wearing more clothing than any other character in that picture, doesn't stop her from being sexualized, but does confuse me when reading your comment

 

[shintakie10]

Also looking at that team-pic, why isn't Beast Boy half-naked? Since wouldn't he be the kind of character where that would make perfect sense, being animalistic, and having shape-shifting powers?

Let's not kid ourselves, if Beast Boy's and Raven's genders were reversed, the amount of the clothing they wear would be as well.

I think you might be mistaken Raven for StarfireWonder Girl.

StarfireWonder Girl is the blond tits. Raven's technically the most covered of the entire team, with only her mouth showing.

Not saying you don't have a point, you very much do and I completely agree but your post had me in scrolling back up in confusion several times to figure it out.

Has Raven's design changed, then? From that team picture, you can't really see her costume. I was talking about the designs in general, not just how they look in that particular picture.

She might technically be covered (I'm not sure if that grey is her skin or skin-tight... something) but if the costume hugs the form so closely the character might just as well be naked I'm not sure what difference it makes.

That new design for Raven is very bird-like and animalistic, not really qualities I remember being assosiated with Raven.

Looks the same to me, though just looking at it from the side makes it a whole lot better in my opinion. Sure Raven never really actually had the Raven motiff going in her old incarnations, but good changes are good changes. The helmet still looks awful, but that cloak is beautiful imo. Get rid of the helmet, just use the hood that definitely exists on that cloak, and maybe or maybe not ditch the talons. Not sure on that last bit since they actually have grown on me for some reason, but they do look silly.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I don't think she looks terrible...I haven't read any books with her in it though but I would say she wasn't screwed over nearly as hard as Starfire (in the earlier days anyway, apparently there have been retcons). A problem I've had with the New 52 in terms of aesthetics is how red and, black seem to have become the dominant color duo. Not everyone is red and black now but it's become somewhat dominant. It seems pretty cool to me to make her into a sort of bird woman...there aren't very many of those in the DCU after all.

 

[DementedSheep]

The helmet looks ok from certain angles (side on and 3 quarters) and terrible at others (front or down angled). Don't know how the fuck she sees but whatever. I can dig the claws and the cloak is awesome but the rest? Not so much. Looks like she wearing a body stocking with a random feathered corset thing attached. It's hideous. I can't read the small text on that picture and I tried reading TT and it was ass anyway so I can't talk about them betraying her character or anything. The cartoon was good, one of my favourites when I was younger (I did look up the comic because of that but it was pretty obvious they aren't alike just the previews) but from what I understand the tv show is only loosely based off them.

 

[verdant monkai]

My specific problems are that the whole thing looks really mismatched and low effort.

Low effort I'll grant, but how so mismatched?

I guess she is a teenager and therefore of limited means, but Spider-Man did a better job than she did, and he wasn't much older or richer when he started out.

He did, however, have a professional wrestling organization's costume supplier to make his outfit for him.

Its mismatched because it kind of looks like a sailor scout/air hostess with red tights, some bangles and a scarf. It just looks fucking horrible. Its just my opinion... but the suit is crap

Also can I just say you have actually made me cry.
How can you talk about comic book characters and then reference their film counter parts as a source in the same conversation?
The Tobey Maguire Spiderman doesn't even get given one you see him cutting and making his own suit. And in the comics he crafts his own suit http://marvel.wikia.com/Amazing_Fantasy_Vol_1_15

Just realised you didnt actually reference any films. Sorry about that. Spiderman makes his own suits though.

 

[Fox12]

After the Starfire debacle I'm not even surprised anymore. I grew up with the television show, so I find all the character designs pretty sleazy, to say the least, and their characters personalities are atrocious. It's interesting that the little cartoon adaptation they made was actually more thoughtful and mature than the Canon material. Every time I see the characters now, all I can think of is this:

http://harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=311

 

[Seracen]

New 52 has pretty well screwed the entire DC Universe. It's not like I'm against change. Marvel handled the Ultimate Universe really well, alongside the traditional universe. Reboots are healthy, in fact, so as to keep all the canon from becoming overly twisted (which it still is, regardless, but not as badly).

However, this new abomination has created more harm than good. There are only three things I like about the New 52, all of which manage to have caveats...

1) Pro: Barbara Gordon is no longer paralyzed --> Con: Cassandra Cain doesn't exist (although they'd already crapped on her when turning her into a villain; and she was my fave character in the DC Universe back in her Batgirl days).

2) Pro: Superman/Wonder Woman (subjective, I know) --> Con: how the entire relationship and story have been handled.

3) Pro: Batman and Catwoman have FINALLY been shown to have had sex --> Con: there is ABSOLUTELY NO relationship, it's just tawdry "bad fanfiction" sleaziness

I'm not against sensuality. I find a fully realized romance to be a breath of fresh air in a well done story. But art and writing more befitting a porn shoot fulfill nothing more than crass titillation. Without proper handling, it just becomes borderline rule 34. For example, the sex scenes in Mass Effect were far more poignant than...say...the scene in Alpha Protocol. Still unsure whether the scene in Heavy Rain was creepy or romantic. I wanted to enjoy the scene, but I felt like a scummy voyeur...

I am actually looking at New 52, interested in seeing new issues, just to see how bad the trainwreck gets. This is the same impetus behind reading Frank Miller's "All Star Batman and Robin." However, this is not the healthiest of ways to engage a readership...

As to the OP: yeah, Raven looks more like a dominatrix version of the heroes from Battle of the Planets...ah well, maybe she will "sober up" when she is no longer a pawn of Trigon. Maybe that's her "evil form."

 

[Lieju]

It's skin-tight stuff I think. Do believe that makes a difference, most superheroes generally wear skin-tight stuff that leaves quite little to the imagination.

Difference being mostly that beneath the male skin-tight stuff there's generally an idealized male form while beneath the female skin-tight stuff there's generally an sexualized female form.

It would matter how it emphasizes things like breasts and butts. Like Raven's New 52 outfit directs the attention to her breasts. Also posing matters a lot.
Just looking at that team-picture, BeastBoy and Robin's outfits aren't exactly painted on.

Even ignoring sexualisation, the skin-tight outfits tend to look silly to me, male or female. But with women it also often highlights their weird anatomy. Breasts and hips just tend to look weird in many US comics. Not even mentioning the positions the women are contorted into.

The skintight outfits also look silly on the men because they make it look like they have no genitalia.

 

[crazygameguy4ever]

Is Beast Boy green again? he was red colored when he first appeared in the new 52, which is messed up since he's always been green

 

[mecegirl]

Spoiler

Is the TBF Avenger meant to be a pun?

I doubt it. The first few issues of the new comic did involve a plot where she is sent back in time to World War 2.

Ah. I was assuming it was a reference to her being a member of The Avengers, which would e funny.

I guess it could be both. That plane had a lot of fire power for its day didn't it? It would be like saying she was the most powerful avenger?

Actually, forget that last quote. I'm an idiot and I'm getting my planes mixed up. That's not even an Avenger, it's an SBD Dauntless Dive bomber.

LOL you would know better than me. Just after a quick google search those planes look identical to me.

Starfire has red hair and is orange. The Blond is Cassie aka Wonder Girl aka don't call her Wonder Girl.

I still don't like that quirk, why wouldn't you choose to have your name emulate one of the most well known female heroes on the planet? Or are they going for the "I got my own, I'm independant!" angle. It's so forced.

Going by Raven's inception it seems they're going through a kind of Path to good angle with her and Beast Boy may be a guide to rejecting Trigon's powers and influence. That could lead to a costume to at least have some aspects of the original.

At the moment though even for a demonic look it's a little inelegant and over designed. If she is pretending with the Titan's at least attempt to look less... Every Villain Is Lemons :/

They did that in some way with all of them. Superboy isn't the original Superboy but a clone of the Superboy clone. Bart Allen, or Kid Flash is not Barry Allen's,the original Flash, grandkid from the future, but some random terrorist called Barr Tor. Tim Drake was retconned a few months into the 52 to be using the name Tim Drake as an alias because he's in the witness protection program. And he was never a Robin. And when I say retconned I mean that within the 52 there was an issue of Batman that listed Tim as a Robin, and then later in the 52 it is stated that he was never Robin. People were able to pick up their new 52 comics they purchased months before and notice the discrepancy.

I dont think that stuff had to do with tryin to change things up. I honestly think they just wanted to kill off the Titans as fast as they could for whatever reason. Its extremely startling how quickly they went from interesting with kind of strange, but fun, storylines to Kid Flash is a future terrorist and Superboy is actually an evil clone of the cloned Superboy while Red Robin totally isn't actually Red Robin.

I get that a lot of the offshoots of the Titans that started with the new52 crashed and burned pretty badly (see The Ravagers, or don't because it was terrible) which lead to some really forced introductions and character arcs, but it wasn't that bad. Yet DC seems to have thought it was the worst shit ever and started a scorched earth policy for the series and pretty much destroyed every character they could get their hands on. Red Robin, Bunker, Superboy, Kid Flash, Cassie. All of em just, blammo with the stupid gun. The only ones that aren't basically insane are Beast Boy and Solstice, but considerin they outright stated they plan to kill off the current incarnation of the Titans I have this feelin that the only ones makin it out are Raven and Beast Boy.

Speakin of Solstice, only good point in this entire Titans run so far. She's interestin, is drawn beautifully, and because she's basically just giant plumes of smoke and cosmic energy she doesn't have a ridiculously revealing costume. I'm really pulling for her to not die in the crossover arcs, but considerin she and Beast Boy are the only two not stupid Titans left I expect her to die a terrible terrible death since between the two Beast Boy has far more name recognition (and he appears to be integral to whatever god storyline they have planned for Raven)

edit - I have a dollar that says they just replace everyone, but with the real versions this time. They've already said Wally is coming back in some form. The real Tim Drake hasn't been spotted anywhere since they've retconned Red Robin into not being Tim Drake. It'd be piss easy to get the real Superboy back since the new Superboy is just a clone of the clone. Not sure what to do about Cassie considerin she's supposed to be the real Cassie, but at the same time maybe they can use her team dying to unstupid her. Maybe Skitters will actually appears again too since she basically just vanished and the writers seem to have forgotten about her.

double edit - Wait, when did Beast Boy go green again? Last I saw he was still red because dumb reasons.

I can't agree with you on Solstice. Everything else sure, but not Solstice. I don't know if you know, but she was also a chracter that was messed. This is what Solstice looked like pre 52.

Spoiler

[/spoiler]

A happy and bright teenager of Indian decent with light based powers. She was actually friends with Cassandra Sandsmark because both of their parents were archeologists and worked together. Now she's just smoke, and has this weird backstory of being experimented on. But even then she's sometimes sexualized because we [i]have[/i] to see the boobs even though she's just talking smoke. Anywho. I really liked her chracter pre 52 so the change ruined it for me.

And yes Beast Boy is green like he should have been all along. I belive that they tried to tie him to Animal Man for a second. The thing that gives Animal Man his powers is called "the red"

 

[JimB]

It's mismatched because it kind of looks like a sailor scout/air hostess with red tights, some bangles and a scarf.

I don't understand how that makes it mismatched--women and children the world over wear similar configurations all the time--but whatever. I'll drop it. I don't think I'm going to understand this.

How can you talk about comic book characters and then reference their film counter parts as a source in the same conversation?

I wasn't. I confused it with Ultimate Spider-Man. I was thinking of an issue after he broke up with Mary Jane, who always repaired his costume for him, and had to call the wrestling company, pretending to be a toy representative trying to get a lead on where they originally got his costume from so he could get a replacement for the torn-up one he was wearing (it didn't work for obvious reasons).

 

[mecegirl]

My specific problems are that the whole thing looks really mismatched and low effort.

Low effort I'll grant, but how so mismatched?

I guess she is a teenager and therefore of limited means, but Spider-Man did a better job than she did, and he wasn't much older or richer when he started out.

He did, however, have a professional wrestling organization's costume supplier to make his outfit for him.

Its mismatched because it kind of looks like a sailor scout/air hostess with red tights, some bangles and a scarf. It just looks fucking horrible. Its just my opinion... but the suit is crap

Also can I just say you have actually made me cry.
How can you talk about comic book characters and then reference their film counter parts as a source in the same conversation?
The Tobey Maguire Spiderman doesn't even get given one you see him cutting and making his own suit. And in the comics he crafts his own suit http://marvel.wikia.com/Amazing_Fantasy_Vol_1_15

Just realised you didnt actually reference any films. Sorry about that. Spiderman makes his own suits though.

Her costume isn't that bad. And she is Pakistani. So I believe that the costume is supposed to reference a Churidar.

Spoiler

 

[DementedSheep]

I actually like new Ms Marvels design. But then as the poster above pointed it out it looks like a Churidar which I also like (I see many of them where I live) and I have never really liked the tights aspect of superheroes. It fits with her, something like Ms Marvel's old costume really would not.

 

[StormDragonZ]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that that new Raven look... doesn't look like a raven at all. If best, it's a prehistoric fish monster look.

 

[Hagi]

It's skin-tight stuff I think. Do believe that makes a difference, most superheroes generally wear skin-tight stuff that leaves quite little to the imagination.

Difference being mostly that beneath the male skin-tight stuff there's generally an idealized male form while beneath the female skin-tight stuff there's generally an sexualized female form.

It would matter how it emphasizes things like breasts and butts. Like Raven's New 52 outfit directs the attention to her breasts. Also posing matters a lot.
Just looking at that team-picture, BeastBoy and Robin's outfits aren't exactly painted on.

Even ignoring sexualisation, the skin-tight outfits tend to look silly to me, male or female. But with women it also often highlights their weird anatomy. Breasts and hips just tend to look weird in many US comics. Not even mentioning the positions the women are contorted into.

The skintight outfits also look silly on the men because they make it look like they have no genitalia.

Again, that's not the skin-tight outfits. It's the body beneath. I would say Robin's and Beast Boy's outfits look just as much painted on, just painted over a somewhat more realistically proportioned body.

Spoiler: To give an example, would you say this looks silly?

That's women in skin-tight outfits. Except it's real bodies beneath.

I'd say Raven's outfit is completely fine, no issues there. The body beneath however? That's absurdly proportioned. But if you put a real woman with a normal muscular physique in that outfit she's probably look pretty cool (given the right setting of course).