- Jul 20, 2015
Nope, I definitely did not say that. Not even close. What I did say was that there is often no appropriate way to express disapproval of ignorant ideas.Lightknight said:You complained that people were allowed to say ignorant things without swift retribution.ThatOtherGirl said:I'm not sure how you jumped from "the rules in place can make it somewhat problematic and difficult to express disapproval of bad behavior, thus discouraging participation of those at who that bad behavior is directed" to "murder anyone who is annoying".Lightknight said:This kind of mentality is that of individuals demanding those in control start warping society around them to be more in their own image rather than understanding that being a part of society means give and take and not always only dealing with your best buddies.
Stop trying to read between the lines, you are making up boogeymen to freak out at.
Ok, whatever? I agree?I was explaining that this is a foundation of a free and open society where the offensive have a place at the table too, same as the weak or few.
No? Lightknight, seriously, can you stop jumping to the absolute most extreme situation possible instantly? "expressing disapproval" =/= "You are a shit head".So you're just disappointed that you can't call offensive people shit heads?
The ignorant often out number the people who are willing to correct them, and a well thought out counter post is far more difficult to write than an ignorant or blatantly bigoted comment.Why do you think that gives anyone and advantage or disadvantage?
People only have so much time and energy. Believe it or not, I come here to learn about and talk about video games. I have to deal with the fact that people are being ignorant in my direction. I only have so much time and energy I am willing to spend on here. A bunch of that time and energy is spent countering ignorant or blatantly bigoted comments. If it gets bad enough at some point I am just going to leave.
This gives a distinct advantage to the ignorant - it is easy to overwhelm people with ignorant comments and drive them away from the site. This is happening and it is something worth considering.
If you would like to rebuild this section taking into account that I never said I wanted to call anyone shit head I will respond to it then. Until you can stop shoving words into my mouth I am not going to bother.They are presenting an idea, you have the same means to turn to them and say, "Your idea is shit because...". Hell, you can even say, "You're being racist because...". Providing context brings it away from name calling and puts it into defining.
I mean, you couldn't say "You're a shit head because..." unless the person made a comment which implied that their head is somehow made from or covered in dung but you can absolutely call people out on what they're being and why their comments are wrong/offensive.
It is powerful because it means that the means to express disapproval of bigotry is no more difficult that expressing ignorance and bigotry.What would you like to be able to do that you cannot currently do? Just click a button that looks like a down thumb? Why do you feel like that is particularly powerful? Why is it more powerful than explaining why the person is wrong and hopefully enlightening someone through the magic that is social discourse?
And again, since you just can't seem to actually read my post, I never said the escapist should definitely implement such a system - just that it is worth considering the effect the current system is having and consider if another system might be better.
But you can literally say "not cool" as long as you explain what they're saying is ignorant. That's just due to there being a low content post rule (that is rarely enforced). The rules do not prohibit you from criticizing what is said. You just can't call someone a fucktard and not get dinged. Neither can they.First off, because 95% of the time that person might be a perfectly cool person I like to talk about video games with. I don't automatically assume that ignorance or even blatant bigotry confirms a person as someone completely not worth interacting with. Most people who are ignorant or even bigoted are good people at heart just with some shitty views.However, on a message board you have a distinct advantage of being able to block confirmed jerk-faces and thereby being entirely able to avoid them if you so desire. How does that not meet your qualifications of being able to avoid some such asshat?
Second, because my ignoring the user is not a challenge to it - the community at large does not see the comment being called out as bad and so the community might think that it is an ok thing to say. "Person X said a thing and no one seemed to mind, so it must be ok, right?" This is where community give and take actually is - we all contribute to the culture of the community, we all learn from each other.
The whole point I was trying to make was that in the current setup and rules there is no ability to make an appropriate level of response. I can't just say "Not cool" or downvote and drop it. I have to make a discussion out of it when there really is no discussion to be had or I have to shut up about it and say nothing. I don't want to make a big deal about some stupid thing someone said because it almost never is a big deal. I want to make a very small deal about it. But I can't, and that can make it exhausting being on these forums and it can make them seem more hostile than they actually are. I think that is something to consider.
Perhaps you're just not familiar with the rules? They basically just don't want you to levy direct insults at the other users. You can disagree, strongly and with attitude. No one is stopping that. Like you and I are doing right now. I'm just not going to call you a cotton-headed ninny muggins and you're not going to call me dummy dumb-drops and we'll be fine.[/quote]
Again, if you would care to rewrite this actually responding to what I said instead of what you imagined I said, I will respond then.
I shouldn't have to explain why claiming trans people are so mentally incompetent they should not be trusted with a pair of scissors is "not cool". What am I going to say to that? "I am trans, and I have managed to never stab out my eyes with scissors!" It is ridiculous.No one is making you do followup posts after one explaining your thoughts. And here's an idea, if it's such a damn crucifixion to explain your thoughts in a sentence or to then just don't respond. You have the same power anyone else does whenever you make a comment.
And as I explained several times, which you would know if you actually read my posts, the problem is not responding normalizes that behavior. I have been on forums where people just don't bother responding. They go to hell quick, and I am not interested in being on a forum like that.