What would you want from a Dark Souls clone?

chrissx2

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People are gonna hate me for saying it, but I would like everything that there is in DS but with responsive controls, proper camera movement and good hit/collision deteciton.
 

Saelune

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Kerg3927 said:
hanselthecaretaker said:
Characters should be able to manipulate their body like a normal, fairly ingenuitive human would. Can't step over that low rock outcropping? Well, how about using your arms and legs to crawl over it. Is that a giant dead tree limb in your path? Well then take your trusty great sword and hack that sucker up. Or maybe it's high enough off the ground to, you guessed it, crawl underneath.
I get what you're saying, but those artificial barriers are there for a reason. It's to protect you from boredom. To keep you from crawling over that rubble and wasting time discovering that there's nothing interesting behind it. Or so the devs aren't forced to put a fetch quest back there so it's not empty space.

Realism sounds great and all, but confinement can and usually does in my experience make for a more dense and fun GAME. And at the end of the day, we're playing the game to have fun and beat the obstacles presented to us, not judge it on it's real world simulation merits.

I think overall, Dark Souls (haven't played 3 yet) does a good job at making the confinement - which is there for your benefit - not seem too artificial through creative and smart environment design. I also laud From for having the balls to keep beneficial confinement in their games when most other RPG's are moving to massive open world just because they feel like they have to because it's the trendy thing to do these days.
I get that. DS has generally done a good job of avoiding invisible walls/barriers that would seem possible to circumvent, given the game's intended design.
 

WhiteFangofWhoa

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A while back I ended up pondering a sci-fi Souls variant on a similar post, so probably that. More room to make truly grotesque Giger/Space C'thulu style enemies that are more than just dudes in armour or piles of corpses. A completely alien world in advanced stages of decay from some kind of plague that drove everything it didn't kill into murderous madness and body warping.

More advanced tech (cryo, pyro, fusion, poison AND lightning guns) commonly means less melee and more ranged, but give all the ranged weapons that you can scavenge limited ammo so melee isn't completely obsolete and you may be forced to salvage some metal to fashion a shield and ward off those pesky molecular acid sprays. Basically have every area have a potentially useful reward to find, but also dangers that may make it not worth it.

EDIT: Just saw Seth Carter's post, and yes that would be important as well. Just make jumping automatic like the 3D Zeldas. Dying to a monster or trap is one thing. Dying because your jump controls suck never feels good.
 

sXeth

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hanselthecaretaker said:
I get that. DS has generally done a good job of avoiding invisible walls/barriers that would seem possible to circumvent, given the game's intended design.
They aren't too bad for full on invis-walls, but they're definitely in the list of games that consider things that don't even reach knee height an insurmountable object. Which makes a vague level of sense for someone wearing 100lbs of full plate, but not so much in game where everyone rolls around like ninjas as the go-to method of gameplay. And as they've tried to make the game less glacially-paced in successive installments, the narrower timing windows make those little stops or run-arounds much more problematic.

Though if we're going on movement gripes with Dark Souls, they're tendency to throw in platforming with that utter pile of ********* ********* they call jumping would beat that out by a sizable amount.
 

Zhukov

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Bombiz said:
Zhukov said:
.

I've only ever seen one game do this right.
@Zhukov oh? And what game might that be?
If it's all the same to you, I'd rather not get into a my-favourite-game-is-better-than-your-favourite-game argument.

I find them unutterably dull.
 

Dalisclock

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Kerg3927 said:
Ezekiel said:
Night and day and weather cycles.
Weather is cool. Just don't overdo it like Witcher 3, in which it rained at least half the time. After a while, walking around in the rain in a darkly lit dull atmosphere gets old. By midway through the game, every time it rained, I would just meditate until it stopped so I didn't have to play in it.
Eh, playing the Witcher 3 and living in Oregon, all I keep thinking is "So, this is the fantasy equivalent of the Pacific Northwest?". *Looks at a map of both* Could be.

I do find it weird how I can walk around novigrad in the middle of the night and there are a lot of people out and about, not to mention quite a few shops stay open all night it seems.
 

Danbo Jambo

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Saelune said:
Bonfire Ascetics arent exactly easy to acquire, and they increase the difficulty, when I just want some more enemies to kill for souls. Ive had little issue with enemies in DS1, cause the whole point of the series -was- to fail, die, improve, succeed.
Mate, there is absolutely no need to worry about lack of souls. If you went through the game and just killed the bosses there'd be plenty. The extra souls available without burning BA's are plentiful.
 

Saelune

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Danbo Jambo said:
Saelune said:
Bonfire Ascetics arent exactly easy to acquire, and they increase the difficulty, when I just want some more enemies to kill for souls. Ive had little issue with enemies in DS1, cause the whole point of the series -was- to fail, die, improve, succeed.
Mate, there is absolutely no need to worry about lack of souls. If you went through the game and just killed the bosses there'd be plenty. The extra souls available without burning BA's are plentiful.
I stressed enough in Dark Souls 1. 2 really just tries my patience, with effigies, soul memory, and limited enemies. I have found fixes, but none of them are as simple as Dark Souls 1, which only real issue is Humanity, which you can just farm from rats.
 

Danbo Jambo

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Saelune said:
Danbo Jambo said:
Saelune said:
Bonfire Ascetics arent exactly easy to acquire, and they increase the difficulty, when I just want some more enemies to kill for souls. Ive had little issue with enemies in DS1, cause the whole point of the series -was- to fail, die, improve, succeed.
Mate, there is absolutely no need to worry about lack of souls. If you went through the game and just killed the bosses there'd be plenty. The extra souls available without burning BA's are plentiful.
I stressed enough in Dark Souls 1. 2 really just tries my patience, with effigies, soul memory, and limited enemies. I have found fixes, but none of them are as simple as Dark Souls 1, which only real issue is Humanity, which you can just farm from rats.
Fair play, if it's proving too much hassel can't fault you.
 

Saelune

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Danbo Jambo said:
Saelune said:
Danbo Jambo said:
Saelune said:
Bonfire Ascetics arent exactly easy to acquire, and they increase the difficulty, when I just want some more enemies to kill for souls. Ive had little issue with enemies in DS1, cause the whole point of the series -was- to fail, die, improve, succeed.
Mate, there is absolutely no need to worry about lack of souls. If you went through the game and just killed the bosses there'd be plenty. The extra souls available without burning BA's are plentiful.
I stressed enough in Dark Souls 1. 2 really just tries my patience, with effigies, soul memory, and limited enemies. I have found fixes, but none of them are as simple as Dark Souls 1, which only real issue is Humanity, which you can just farm from rats.
Fair play, if it's proving too much hassel can't fault you.
I just dont want to micromanage. The fun of Dark Souls is fighting things. Bloodborne, which I think is the best cause it has so few of that BS, is alot of fun cause I was never afraid to press forward. Im not afraid to challenge a boss completely blind, cause if I die, I just run back, try again. If I lose my echos, its no big deal, I can just get more.

I dont like using walkthroughs if I dont have to, but honestly, I have the wiki open and check it constantly, even watching Extra Play (Extra Credit's lets play channel) go through DS2, so I can see without risk.

Ive since found ways to deal with the issues, but they arent optimal. I wear the ring that absorbs souls now, so I can just play the game and not care if I die. If I need souls, I will join that champion covenant and safely farm just what I need, then leave it and re-use the ring. I also have the ring that reduces HP lost, but I dont think any of these help the enjoyment. Hell, if I wasnt a wanna-be completionist, intent on 100%ing the game, Id just skip it and go to 3.
 

Danbo Jambo

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Saelune said:
Danbo Jambo said:
Saelune said:
Danbo Jambo said:
Saelune said:
Bonfire Ascetics arent exactly easy to acquire, and they increase the difficulty, when I just want some more enemies to kill for souls. Ive had little issue with enemies in DS1, cause the whole point of the series -was- to fail, die, improve, succeed.
Mate, there is absolutely no need to worry about lack of souls. If you went through the game and just killed the bosses there'd be plenty. The extra souls available without burning BA's are plentiful.
I stressed enough in Dark Souls 1. 2 really just tries my patience, with effigies, soul memory, and limited enemies. I have found fixes, but none of them are as simple as Dark Souls 1, which only real issue is Humanity, which you can just farm from rats.
Fair play, if it's proving too much hassel can't fault you.
I just dont want to micromanage. The fun of Dark Souls is fighting things. Bloodborne, which I think is the best cause it has so few of that BS, is alot of fun cause I was never afraid to press forward. Im not afraid to challenge a boss completely blind, cause if I die, I just run back, try again. If I lose my echos, its no big deal, I can just get more.

I dont like using walkthroughs if I dont have to, but honestly, I have the wiki open and check it constantly, even watching Extra Play (Extra Credit's lets play channel) go through DS2, so I can see without risk.

Ive since found ways to deal with the issues, but they arent optimal. I wear the ring that absorbs souls now, so I can just play the game and not care if I die. If I need souls, I will join that champion covenant and safely farm just what I need, then leave it and re-use the ring. I also have the ring that reduces HP lost, but I dont think any of these help the enjoyment. Hell, if I wasnt a wanna-be completionist, intent on 100%ing the game, Id just skip it and go to 3.
This helped me out when I was struggling. Really helped me enjoying the game more.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGcuztq2Gmg
 

jademunky

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Clever level design and battles that demand you vary your tactics.

Example: I recently finished a Souls-like game called "Salt and Sanctuary." It was a fun game, I definitely got my moneys worth but the environments were just confusing, lacking in any cohesion between areas (somewhat justified by the story but that is another discussion) and I solved every battle, whether boss or mob, the exact same way: By taking the biggest sword I could find, upgrading as much as possible, put points into my strength stat and hammer away at enemies until death. Then repeat.

I did not use any of the magic, miracles, ranged weapons, short blades or anything. Because I diddn't need to. Barely used the dodge-roll unless a boss was telegraphing an obvious charge attack and never even bothered blocking.
 
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The things that in my mind make a Souls game are: Difficulty, Melee combat, weapons and armour, exploring, sumptuous and polished level design, interesting and challenging boss fights.

TBH, I could do without the punishing difficulty. I don't play Souls games because I enjoy losing, losing and finally winning, as good as that is. I'd be extremely happy with a less punishing game or at the very least a set of difficulty sliders/settings, but which kept the combat. Now, I'm not a fan of the invincible rolling thing, especially the PvP invincibility bullshit that goes with the mechanic, but the combat is good. The unique strengths, weaknesses and styles of the different weapons is magnificent and there is NO other game like it. I would love to see Souls melee combat in something even like Skyrim.

I'd love to explore a fantasy world with all these beautiful, dangerous areas, never knowing behind which corner could lurk unique loot, death, a quest/NPC, etc. The different melee weapons/armours that allow us to have such varied and interesting builds, looks and playstyles. Fighting interesting bosses, and no getting one-shot all the bloody time. Tough but fair, not DS3 cheese difficulty where mobs play by different rules than the player.

It would be fully coop with scaling to number of friends. It wouldn't have any of the nonsense signs, soul levels/memory and absolutely no invasion bullshit. I want steamworks matchmaking where my friend can just join me and vice versa. I essentially want the entire PvP aspect divorced from the SP/Coop experience so we're not getting "balanced" because of PvP.
 

Saelune

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Seth Carter said:
hanselthecaretaker said:
I get that. DS has generally done a good job of avoiding invisible walls/barriers that would seem possible to circumvent, given the game's intended design.
They aren't too bad for full on invis-walls, but they're definitely in the list of games that consider things that don't even reach knee height an insurmountable object. Which makes a vague level of sense for someone wearing 100lbs of full plate, but not so much in game where everyone rolls around like ninjas as the go-to method of gameplay. And as they've tried to make the game less glacially-paced in successive installments, the narrower timing windows make those little stops or run-arounds much more problematic.

Though if we're going on movement gripes with Dark Souls, they're tendency to throw in platforming with that utter pile of ********* ********* they call jumping would beat that out by a sizable amount.
Is there more platforming in later installments (2/3)? I know there wasn't really any in Demon's and only a handful of instances in DS1. Unless you're talking about having to drop down levels like in the Great Hollow.

Also I think Demon's for one handled raised obstacles pretty well, but I'd have to compare it to Dark to know if it was much different. There was one area in Boletaria that I dropped down to by the big door the fat official waits at. It was on a roof off to the side, and there were raised platforms about a foot under waist-height all around the edges which had me thinking great I'm stuck here now. But I went up to one and lo and behold I was able to hop right up it and drop down to the main path below.

It is inconsistent though, and for the amount of exploring encouraged in the game it's something they could've fine-tuned a bit more.
 

Souplex

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I'd like it if they stopped with the Souls series' pathological hatred of shield players. There wasn't a problem in 1, but as the series went on they added more unblockable attacks, and made blocking take more stamina. In 3 blocking is barely workable until you get a greatshield.
Also they keep making you squishier.
 

00slash00

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Saelune said:
Danbo Jambo said:
A bit more clarity to the story would be nice. And I may be in a minoroty, but for the love of God please make enemies disappear after 10 or so kills like in DS2, it just gets so, so boring killing the same things over & over & over again.

Personally I'd like to see a Golden Axe sequel given the DS treatment. Slimlined to make it more accessable, but with bags of that classic fantasy base to give it some depth.
I dont like the respawn limit because it makes me worry about having a finite amount of souls in the game, aka exp/money. If there is a costless way to revive them, fine, but Dark Souls 2's way of returning them sucks. On top of that is Soul Memory which leaves me feeling every single soul I fail to recover. I dont know how many souls I lost in DS1, cause I didnt keep any count. In DS2 so far, its just above 10k, and thats because I am extra cautious now, and am nowhere near as far as I should be.
I actually liked that there was a limited about of xp and money. It meant you couldn't just grind your way to being over powered and cheese your way through the game. What I didn't like though, was that for enemies who had rare drops for weapons that you couldn't get elsewhere, you only had a few random chances to get a weapon before needing to play through again and hope for better luck
 

Saelune

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00slash00 said:
Saelune said:
Danbo Jambo said:
A bit more clarity to the story would be nice. And I may be in a minoroty, but for the love of God please make enemies disappear after 10 or so kills like in DS2, it just gets so, so boring killing the same things over & over & over again.

Personally I'd like to see a Golden Axe sequel given the DS treatment. Slimlined to make it more accessable, but with bags of that classic fantasy base to give it some depth.
I dont like the respawn limit because it makes me worry about having a finite amount of souls in the game, aka exp/money. If there is a costless way to revive them, fine, but Dark Souls 2's way of returning them sucks. On top of that is Soul Memory which leaves me feeling every single soul I fail to recover. I dont know how many souls I lost in DS1, cause I didnt keep any count. In DS2 so far, its just above 10k, and thats because I am extra cautious now, and am nowhere near as far as I should be.
I actually liked that there was a limited about of xp and money. It meant you couldn't just grind your way to being over powered and cheese your way through the game. What I didn't like though, was that for enemies who had rare drops for weapons that you couldn't get elsewhere, you only had a few random chances to get a weapon before needing to play through again and hope for better luck
I dont like even the thought of getting to a point where you can longer progress because you messed up. Even if unfounded, the fear of that really hampers the enjoyment and experience of the game.

Plus Im the kind of person who 1. Refuses to use expendable items, and 2. is afraid to waste even a single diamond in Minecraft cause what if I run out?
 

Wasted

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I would love a Souls game that allows me to pause but apparently wanting such a ludicrous feature would make the game casual and I should gitgud and go back to CoD.