What's with Black Widow in The Avengers?

[Johnny Impact]

Two reasons, I think.

First, Widow's playbook is seduction, martial arts, stealth, and reason. Hulk can't be seduced, punched out, bargained with, reasoned with, or tricked (not with words, anyway; he's easily distracted). No one else on the team, and very few individuals anywhere, are totally immune to her skills. Against Hulk, her intellect, beauty, and years of training are meaningless. She's got nothin', and she knows it. She does not like being helpless.

Second, she's been to the Dark Side. She keeps herself on a tight leash because she knows how bad she can be, uncontrolled. Her actions are only as good as her control. Same with Banner, except he's got it worse. Eventually, inevitably, despite his best efforts, he will Hulk out again. Every time it happens, lives are lost, and there's millions in property damage. I think Widow feels sorry for him, and sees herself in him. If Banner can lose control and become a monster, so can she. The fact that she's already done it only justifies her fear.

 

[BadNewDingus]

She's an agent. She probably read all his history. And his history is terrifying. I mean, the first time they met in the movies was with a mini army behind her for just in case. Someone like Black Widow needing something like that for one man?

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

I think its pretty simple, this is a guy who when big and green and pissed the fuck off can pulverize tanks, shrug off bullets, shells and rockets alike. Widow has absolutely no superpowers, is not impervious to damage or wearing any real protective gear... one solid punch, kick, slap or swipe from Hulk means pulverized bone, organs. Shit yeah she should be scared, any normal person no matter how trained they are would be scared.

 

[happyninja42]

I think its pretty simple, this is a guy who when big and green and pissed the fuck off can pulverize tanks, shrug off bullets, shells and rockets alike. Widow has absolutely no superpowers, is not impervious to damage or wearing any real protective gear... one solid punch, kick, slap or swipe from Hulk means pulverized bone, organs. Shit yeah she should be scared, any normal person no matter how trained they are would be scared.

Except she didn't cower in a corner when the army of monsters from outerspace showed up, including some creatures as big as a sky scraper. She just did her little "I'm a badass because I'm loading up this 9mm pistol" shot, and then started kicking ass. And that's my issue really, is that it was so contrary to the way she reacted to plenty of other threats that were just as dangerous, and just as lethal, that she calmly reacted to.


To the responses above about her being there to witness Hulk going off on the army, I guess that works? *shrugs* It just felt more like some Little Girl/Daddy issues, that his presence was bringing up in her head. Not just "oh shit he's huge and mean", but "he's making me remember being a little 4 year old girl, fighting off my abusive father" kind of thing, or at least that was the impression I got from it.

 

[DefunctTheory]

I think its pretty simple, this is a guy who when big and green and pissed the fuck off can pulverize tanks, shrug off bullets, shells and rockets alike. Widow has absolutely no superpowers, is not impervious to damage or wearing any real protective gear... one solid punch, kick, slap or swipe from Hulk means pulverized bone, organs. Shit yeah she should be scared, any normal person no matter how trained they are would be scared.

Except she didn't cower in a corner when the army of monsters from outerspace showed up, including some creatures as big as a sky scraper. She just did her little "I'm a badass because I'm loading up this 9mm pistol" shot, and then started kicking ass. And that's my issue really, is that it was so contrary to the way she reacted to plenty of other threats that were just as dangerous, and just as lethal, that she calmly reacted to.


To the responses above about her being there to witness Hulk going off on the army, I guess that works? *shrugs* It just felt more like some Little Girl/Daddy issues, that his presence was bringing up in her head. Not just "oh shit he's huge and mean", but "he's making me remember being a little 4 year old girl, fighting off my abusive father" kind of thing, or at least that was the impression I got from it.

Monsters from Outer Space can be shot.

The Hulk can't.

 

[zumbledum]

So I just recently re-watched The Avengers, and remembered something that bugs me every time I see it.

Why is the Black Widow so terrified of The Hulk? Beyond the typical "Holy shit it's a giant green monster" level of terrified that every natural human being has. They seem to put a lot of emphasis on showing her being almost pathologically afraid of Bruce, and I don't know why.

They hint at someone in her past messing with her head, and I guess maybe this is that? I've never read any comics related to her so I'm just speculating.

What is in BW's past that would explain her heightened level of fear of Bruce/Hulk?

now ill be first to admit i don't know this, its just the read i came away with. i just thought it was about the hulk not her. the hulks arc is about him going from this chaotic lethal rage beast to the more in control version we have in the last big fight having him scare people is a simpler and faster way of getting that across than an expensive and unnecessary set of action scenes. a squishy human being the best vessel for that message

 

[Random Argument Man]

Because the whole point of the Bruce Banner losing control is what's terrifying. The first time, the additional stress took control. The second time was when Bruce letting it happened for a purpose.

Or am I the only one who saw the Hulk movie with Edward Norton?

 

[Vivi22]

I loved the Avengers, but the Hulk thing confused me. How is he wildly out on control on the ship but completely on top of it at final battle time? And how bad was the Hulk's hair when Edward Norton played him?!

I'm guessing that if he hulks out against his will, he can't control the Hulk's actions. But if he does it deliberately, he can.

It was pretty heavily implied right before that scene that Loki's staff was affecting all of them, hence their jumping down each others throats, and Banner grabbing it without even realizing it while very tenuously holding back his anger. Even in the final battle I wouldn't say he was totally in control, but he definitely had a more obvious threat to go to town on.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Because all of her martial arts, training, smarts, seduction abilities, etc. are totally useless against him. He's basically the one opponent that there is absolutely nothing she can do against him, and that's scary.

 

[spartan231490]

I think you're reading way too much into it. She never displayed all that much fear around him. I mean, yeah, she showed more than Thor or iron man but news-flash, she doesn't have armor or super-fortitude. It's understandable that she'd sweat or get a little white-eyed around bruce when he's angry/turning green. It's not like she screamed and ran away, she stayed there and did her job.

 

[HardkorSB]

Why is the Black Widow so terrified of The Hulk? Beyond the typical "Holy shit it's a giant green monster" level of terrified that every natural human being has. They seem to put a lot of emphasis on showing her being almost pathologically afraid of Bruce, and I don't know why.

There are a few things:
1. Black Widow is shown to use her wits and sex appeal to get into other people's heads and achieve her goals. Those things don't work on the Hulk so she's powerless against him.
2. She pissed Banner off during the film and by the time he turned, he was pretty mad at her.
3. Hulk is practically unkillable and they're in an enclosed space.

I think a combination of those things is enough to scare her.

 

[SonOfAnarchy91]

Because someone is gonna die in this film (at least 2 will die I think) and my money is on HULK killing Black Widow. Just from the little to peices we've seen Banner looks completely unstable in this and is no longer in control.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

For the same reason everybody else is terrified of destructive things they can't control. No one is afraid of things that they're confident they can control or defeat in some way, whatever that might be. For Black Widow that's many things because she's a really good soldier/spy. But Hulk is too OP for her abilities. He's certain death.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Giant Alien Monster Space Invaders: Can be killed by arrows and small arms fire.

Hulk: Survives sustained barrage from anti-tank weapons, later survives sustained barrage from chariot-mounted Space weapons after tearing a gaping hole in a space army.

I'd say one is much scarier than the other.

 

[Diablo2000]

Because the Hulk is pretty much an near unstopable force and she's completely helpless if he's lost control?

Just a thought...

True but she wasn't nearly as perturbed by the giant aliens later in the same film.

Maybe there's some back story explaining her fear? Just an inconsistency in the writing in my opinion.

She was a shocked by the giant alien. But the Hulk killed that in one hit and the rest of the aliens might as well be cannon fodder really. So the Hulk IS scary as fuck, not even giant space worm could fuck with it.

 

[the December King]

I'm sorry for my ignorance, but I thought the Black Widow also had some sort of super serum. like Cap? That was something I had heard, anyways- bear in mind, I haven't been watching any of the Marvel films since Avengers. But if she was like cap, I reckon she STILL should be forgiven in showing a certain ammount of fear at the Hulk.

Red and green should never be seen...and she's a ranga.

That was well played sir- being in Canada, I don't hear that word nearly enough in comedy.

 

[Qwurty2.0]

I'm sorry for my ignorance, but I thought the Black Widow also had some sort of super serum. like Cap? That was something I had heard, anyways- bear in mind, I haven't been watching any of the Marvel films since Avengers. But if she was like cap, I reckon she STILL should be forgiven in showing a certain ammount of fear at the Hulk.

Red and green should never be seen...and she's a ranga.

That was well played sir- being in Canada, I don't hear that word nearly enough in comedy.

A quick skim of the wiki doesn't show anything related to the serum in the comics, and she's definitely just "normal" (relatively speaking) in the movies. In the comics she was rescued by Logan and Cap, before lots of other shit started happening (think elite sleeper cells, arranged marriage, staged death of said husband to make Black Widow more emotionally driven to kill the people who supposedly murdered him, solo vigilante career, etc).

 

[the December King]

Oh... that's disappointing to me - I thought they were all enhanced in some way... I think it's lame that the female member of the Avengers is just a talented, competent woman.

 

[Qwurty2.0]

Oh... that's disappointing to me - I thought they were all enhanced in some way... I think it's lame that the female member of the Avengers is just a talented, competent woman.

 

[the December King]

Not sure is serious...

Ha, guess I deserved that!

But seriously, a radio-active green were-monster, a god, a billionaire with magic tech, and... a spy.

But it's just because I'd like to see some female characters with meta-human powers- not necessarily 'mutants', but still, it seemed really lop-sided to me that the only female member was gifted with, well, nothing technically beyond human capability.

But as it turns out, she may have been actually enhanced, after all- at least according to Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Widow_%28Natalia_Romanova%29#Powers_and_abilities

I dunno, I just wanted all of them to be 'better' than human (you know, beyond the actual stunts they accomplish already being beyond human, of course).