When NPC's can play the game better than you.

The Funslinger

Corporate Splooge
Sep 12, 2010
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Jacco said:
For instance, in Halo Reach the Covenant can jump, dive, dodge, twirl, and aim perfectly no matter what. As a supposedly Spartan super soldier, all you as the PC can do is jump up and down. And occasionally get far enough away from a grenade to not die.
Well in this specific example, it's because there's a load out that allows the user to roll. This is the default load out equipped to Elite NPCs.

Kinda stupid to code in rolling and attaching it to an item. How restricting must those suits be?

But it's the reason.
 

recurve6

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Jan 8, 2011
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The worst is trying to play the max difficulty AI in RTS games. They can do everything at the same time without pausing for reactions, forgetting to do something, and are just generally better.

Case in point, I got wrecked in a Company of Heroes mission yesterday on just normal difficulty because I couldn't keep up with every goddamn tank and AT cannon on the map.
 

Hagi

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Apr 10, 2011
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veloper said:
Creating a good AI has always proven to be too hard for game companies. That doesn't mean every attempt is acceptable, but we'll have to settle with a simple, scripted AI that will work towards simple goals, receive the necessary (preferably documented) bonusses to make it competitive and hope the difference isn't too glaring.
Some game devs do this better than others and some genres are easier.
It's not just hard.

It's mostly that it's EXTREMELY resource intensive. I think most game companies that have a few well-educated programmers in their ranks can manage to create AIs that are genuinely good at the game, it would just take a full year of processing (that's not an exaggeration) for every second of game-time if you have a few dozen NPCs to go through.

Each AI going to need to evaluate the situation, then evaluate the possible options for each situation, then evaluate the possible outcomes for each option, then evaluate the effectiveness of each outcome. If there's just 10 in each category you're already at a hundred thousand evaluations to be done. Most likely 10 is a way too small number though and you're dealing with dozens of NPCs, possible situations, possible actions, possible outcomes and possible goals. Doesn't take long to get into the billions.

That scripted AI isn't chosen because it's simple. It's chosen because it's fast. So you can run your game at 60 FPS instead of 60 FPY (Frames per Year).
 

The White Hunter

Basment Abomination
Oct 19, 2011
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RT said:
In the original 2D Mortal Kombat games AI is a cheating fuck.
Also see Tekken 6 for an example of cheating AI. And Tekken 5's last boss.

OT: I don't care if the AI can pretend to be intelligent and I actually like when AI uses tactics like pepper potting, supressing, flanking. Killzone 2 actually has very good AI and I've seen it do all that, it's a shame that AI didn't c arry over to the Bot mode as it would've made it much more rewarding.

I don't like AI like the Bots you find in CoD, the kind that walks around staring at the sky then because playerdistance=50yards they turn 180 degrees and proceed to pop 3 perfect shots in your head in a heartbeat. Though slap em on regular or hardened on black ops 2 and you an split screen buddies can have some fun.

Partner AI should never be as dreadful as say, Dead Island, however.

Edit: Resistance has always had fairly effective and challenging AI opponents, though I've seent hem have some huge derp outs they tend to be agressive and efficient. Except Grimms. They have no AI beyond "Seek and destroy!!" but they do do that very, very well .___. Anybody who played Resistance 3's survival mode knows just how effective 60 Grimms piling in through the doors is.
 

Beat14

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Jun 27, 2010
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Like the guy said above me (or at least when typing this), enemies that turn 180 degrees in next to no time at all. I remember playing a game like that recently, the name of the game eludes me :(, but it made it a bit like a horror experience I dreaded playing it for the god like reflexes/senses of the AI. God damn! Forgetting the game name is going to be killing me over the next few hours! :(
 

Alex Graves

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Aug 16, 2012
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I'm surprised noone mentioned a moba (not sure if it is a problem for each one but the ones i played it can be funny) most commonly LoL. Early on in the match the AI is pretty basic and bland and only has an advantage with reaction time (being a computer and on the server itself they can react faster then you can blink XD) but you combine the reaction time with some of the funny strats they were programmed with and then a finished build and you have already lost it just take a few minutes before the nexus blows up :p. I have only seen a few time were the players won once the bots were full build (only twice myself and that was back when they had all the bruiser/tank bots, but those matches were fun as hell though.

In most games the enemy AI always seems to be so much better then any ally AI it is just sad. In halo 2 I'd get pinned down by the snipers since they would kill me if I poked my head out so I'd hand an ally a rifle/launcher and let them take them out the sniper one would usually do a good job but the rocket launcher guy....would run about and give the enemy a hug and blow them both up -.- Then there is any allied AI in any shooter I have ever played...who runs in circles and shoots the ground.....

Back to the better AI I got to agree with that ninja up there, any RTS AI is a major pain they are usually steamrolling my base while I'm still building my main structures (they build way to fast) the benefit of being able to do 12 things at once I guess. Oh, and yeah it is 12 at once I made a bunch of the AI's fight each other and just watched them go...building 5 buildings simultaneously and moving up to 100 units in 8 different directions is some major god powers right there.

Also, creepers need a nerf that 200 points and maxed sneak tree they have is annoying most of the time they don't even hiss until I have already been blown up -.-
 

Kopikatsu

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May 27, 2010
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The only time I care about cheating AIs is in fighting games ('WATCH AS I PERFECTLY COUNTER EVERYTHING') and RTSes ('Oh, you wasted 80% of your army to completely crush my economy? EAT TANKS. MILLIONS OF TANKS.')
 

Dizzy

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Feb 15, 2013
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blackrave said:
cheating AI is annoying as hell
But on the other hand AI often needs a fighting chance against experienced gamers
So the best devs can do is creating AI that don't cheat that obvious

veloper said:
Oh, you mean a cheating AI?
A competent aimbot for a FPS is fairly easy to do as precision has little to do with intelligence. You'd probably even want to loosen it up a little. Throw in a solid algorithm for pathfinding and pre-scripted map and you can have a decent illusion (FEAR did this back in 2005 already).

Now a stealthy NPC, that would require spatial awareness in an AI, being aware of your environment and knowing what objects would provide concealment from which direction and couple that with the expected behaviour of the other characters. That's not something I expect to see any time soon.
FEAR opponent AI was really good.
It is still one of my favorite games :)

As for stealthy AI, I remember NCR quest in FO:NV when someone was stealing meds from field hospital
Seeing the thief trying to sneak (in plain sight) was hilarious :D
(they at least should have give him stealth boy to make him semi-invisible- that would explain why he wasn't seen previously)
Look I still play that game AND STILL HATE THAT QUEST, most of the time I had to wait a month for him to try to even steal. RPG's are known for these glitches that we know & love, or Hate & wait for patches.
 

Brainwreck

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Dec 2, 2012
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Iron Fucking Tarkus. Does he give a shit? He don't give a shit. He flips your golem ass right on your... ass. And he doesn't afraid of anything.
 

The Cheezy One

Christian. Take that from me.
Dec 13, 2008
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The companions from Dragon Age: Origins, along with their preassigned tactics. While I'm trying to pummel one dog to death with the wrong end of my sword, they are throwing attack after attack in a swish example of deadly ability, and after I kill the dog, I turn to discover the room full of hardened murderers is devoid of life, but now has about a dozen dead bodies. Not really cheating AI, but still NPCs (or at least, not currently controlled PCs) outperforming me.
 

Bad Jim

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Nov 1, 2010
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veloper said:
A competent aimbot for a FPS is fairly easy to do as precision has little to do with intelligence. You'd probably even want to loosen it up a little. Throw in a solid algorithm for pathfinding and pre-scripted map and you can have a decent illusion (FEAR did this back in 2005 already).
Actually I made my own map for Unreal Tournament. It was a Domination map, which is where there are three control points that award points to the team that controls them, the first team to get a certain point total winning. Funny thing is, even though I knew the map backwards, and even on low bot difficulty, I still had huge trouble winning against the bots. I still have no idea why.

But yes, having read all the articles about how the UT bots actually work, I'd say there isn't actually anything special about them. They just follow a network of pathnodes to grab pickups and head for an objective, engaging any opponent on the way. They're not terribly different from similar AI in other games. It just works because that's what most players do.

It also works because the map maker has to show them how to do a lot of things, like using lifts and jump pads, and where to hammer jump for special items. They also won't snipe without special markers showing what to snipe at, which is why you can snipe all day from the towers in Facing Worlds and never have a single shot fired back at you.

So the moral of the story is probably to build AI into the map, so the AI understands everything in it and how to handle situations that may arise. Do that well, and you rarely find players saying 'what an idiot' regarding your game AI. Unfortunately it is also a lot of work, which is why it's rarely up to scratch, even in games that license the Unreal engine and therefore have their bot code. Internet connections were terrible when UT was releaased, so bots were needed for solo play and short handed LAN games, so the devs put in the work and advertised it on the box.
 

Snotnarok

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Nov 17, 2008
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Apparently in Gears of War 2 you never have to fire your gun, I'm not sure if that counts or whatever but apparently your squad will kill everything if you let them. <-may not count for higher difficulties.
 

SacremPyrobolum

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Dec 11, 2010
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The AI for S.T.A.L.K.E.R. was supposedly nerfed because it was too good an not in a cheating way.

The AI would make excellent use of cover, grenades, and healthpacks was second to none and their squad coordination was superb.
 

Raggedstar

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Jul 5, 2011
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Pretty much any shooter has NPCs (friendly or enemy) that can do things better than me...mostly because I suck at them. I would like to believe I got through the few shooters I've played (not including games like Jak 2 or Ratchet and Clank. Actual shooters) because of lucky breaks and/or letting my NPC buddies do the work for me. Does that count?

...

I'll show myself to the corner.

EDIT: OHWAIT! Speaking of Jak 2, I know another. Fucking Erol!

Little prick, especially in the street race! Hate him. Not only is he faster than you, but sheesh wtf Naughty Dog!? He makes his turns perfectly, never gets stuck on scenery or bounce off of people, always maintains a perfect speed, can miss rings without penalty (if you miss them, mission ends), and if you DO happen to shove him into something and even point him in the reverse direction, he's on your ass in seconds. In the stadium race, he's just as bad. I've seen replays (both my own and others) where the guy flies in out of nowhere and wins by a few fractions of a second.

The only good thing about the stadium race is that he's less perfect than before and can actually explode and not return. I once boosted into him in the perfect angle to make him explode. That was a good day indeed :3
 

Poetic Nova

Pulvis Et Umbra Sumus
Jan 24, 2012
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recurve6 said:
The worst is trying to play the max difficulty AI in RTS games. They can do everything at the same time without pausing for reactions, forgetting to do something, and are just generally better.

Case in point, I got wrecked in a Company of Heroes mission yesterday on just normal difficulty because I couldn't keep up with every goddamn tank and AT cannon on the map.
Total Annihilation takes the cake by doing that on medium. they can have a full base and steamrolling your own in 10 minutes max. Couple that with the fact they can pull resources out of their mechanical bums even when set on the lowest possible value...

SacremPyrobolum said:
The AI for S.T.A.L.K.E.R. was supposedly nerfed because it was too good an not in a cheating way.

The AI would make excellent use of cover, grenades, and healthpacks was second to none and their squad coordination was superb.
My hats off for the A-live (or how was it called) system in that game. If they weren't nerfed they could actually finish the game for you. And it still maintains tons of npc's doing their stuff, even when not spawned on the same map.
 

Vhite

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Aug 17, 2009
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Cheating AI pretty much ruined my Warcraft 3 multiplayer experience. I was always playing in coop with my friend because he is better in that game and so going against each other wouldn't really work. Sadly all games were too easy on normal AI and pretty much impossible on anything harder (maybe when there were only 2 computer players) because computer could see entire map revealed and so if you ever made a new mining site, you could be 100% sure that about 30 seconds later it would be destroyed.

Also I have strong suspicion that insane AI in WH40: Dawn of War cheats. I don't have any evidence to that however expect that he has usually more units for which resources look at that time (usually early in game) mathematically unattainable.