When the "vocal minority" begins to actually hurt us consumers.

[ScrabbitRabbit]

Steam doesn't have a 24 hour check-in, which was the main issue with the Xbone. I don't have an internet connection all year around so I'm quite often playing games offline.

Besides, even as a PC Gamer I buy nearly all my games physically. Well, A-AAA games at least. I have above-average internet, but it still takes me several hours to download a game and cripples the internet for everyone else in my house. It's just easier to buy a disc. An "all-digital" gaming market is simply not viable with connections being what they are. It's only viable if you live alone or are well off enough to afford the very top-end connections available.

And this is assuming such connections are even available in your area.

This isn't to say Steam isn't without issues, though. Steamworks basically ensures that I can't install any new games when I have no internet and shit like Shogun 2 forces me to download 12GB of data with my bloody physical copy.

 

[spartandude]

Heres one thing i dont get, why could microsoft still allow you to use (some of) the digital share features with digitally purchased games, making you be online when you transfer it to a friend so it temporarily disables it for you, and its disabled for the reciever once theyve come back online at the designated "end" period or something similar.

 

[Soxafloppin]

The Xbox One wanted an all-online present and declared war on the traditional sense of ownership of console games. It deserved what it got.

But Steam has similarish online requirements, and long ago destroyed the concept of physical media on the PC platform. Why should consoles ignore the same future progress that came to PC years ago?

Because the PS4 exists.

I mean if the Xbone launced the way it intended alongside the PS4 it wouldn't have been a console war, it would have been a massacre.

 

[shrekfan246]

I'd also like to point out that Microsoft never really clearly stated what the game sharing would actually entail, simply that you could do it with up to ten people on your friend/family list. The cynic and conspiracy theorist in me would posit that they were intending to make it little more than a glorified demo service, because allowing that many potential customers to play entire games at no cost seems like business suicide.

Not sure if it changes the conversation much, but it was debunked that it was sharing games:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=65184146&postcount=48

It was just a 60 minute demo Ala PS+.

See, I'm skeptical on both sides. Microsoft skirted around the issue pretty masterfully. I don't "trust" any gigantic corporation enough to really give them the benefit of the doubt, but that still doesn't mean it wasn't true in the first place.

At the same time, now that they've evidently abandoned the game sharing system, it'd be really easy for them to come out and say it would've been full games, even if that's not what they were intending.

So, basically, Microsoft's miscommunication and legendarily terrible PR means I'm unlikely to believe anything they say, and their previous track record of brute forcing their way on their customers means that I'm unlikely to put any faith in them doing anything for the benefit of the consumer.

In other words, GG Microsoft. GG.

 

[Zhukov]

a) Steam is a game downloading service. It already has to be online to function. Yes, it doubles as DRM, but it also allows you to play your games in offline mode. Adding a sharing function on top of that does not add inconvenience. An Xbox 360 does not need to be online to function. Adding the sharing feature to the Xbone and tying it to online checks does inconvenience the user and evidently a lot of prospective users didn't consider it to be a worthwhile tradeoff.

b) Microsoft botched the PR horribly. They kept umming and erring over exactly what these amazing features actually entailed. To this day I still don't know exactly how the game sharing thing was supposed to work. The most detailed description I ever saw was that 'Heartbroken MS Employee' letter, which was anonymous and unreliable and also made the sharing feature sound like absolute shit, essentially a glorified demo.

c) Calling something that people don't want "progress" does not automatically make them want it.

d) Can you show that the complainers were a noisy minority, or are you just using that term to dismiss those that disagree with you? Because I imagine this thread is about show you just how major that minority is around these parts.

 

[Doom972]

Big corporation don't make their decisions based on people ranting on the Internet. There are several Business Intelligence tools that they use to make big decisions like the one Microsoft did.

As for the Xbone's case, I don't think that it was a minority.

Also, Steam and Xbone are not the same. People who get a console expect to be able to just insert the disc play their game whenever they feel like it.

 

[LetalisK]

Also, Steam has an offline mode of (approximately) several weeks, no one's really sure because very few people have actually hit the limit

I'm fairly certain Steam does not have a requirement at all. I went 5 months without going online with Steam and I see little reason why they would implement one longer than that if they were ever going to have one. The primary problem with their offline mode is it's a bit buggy, but it's an easily solved issue.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

Ha progress? You kidding. I don't find a console that locks you from playing games if you don't go online for a day to be very progressive

Also the family sharing thing was just a timed demo. You really dumb enough to think they would let you give the full game to 10 people. Publishers would never, ever agree to that.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

Stuff and Things

I recently only just got Steam in order to play Worms: Ulimate Mayhem as well as to stand in for my gaming needs as I can't get my PS3 up to college with me.

So Far, I can play my game both online and offline on my laptop and the only issues where with the game itself, not Steam.
Under X-Bone rules though, I'd need to log onto Steam daily in order to play it, which would suck seeing how my apartment internet doesn't seem to be up to scratch in order to go onto Steam (for that, I use a USB Modem).

Point is, I wouldn't really be able to play my $15 dollar game under X-Bone's requirements and the ideas for the cloud were rumored (At least among IT students I'm friends with) to be unusable in my country (Ireland) due to the poor internet infrastructure outside of either Dublin or Cork.

On top of that, I could have just gotten GOG or even Orgin if I didn't want to deal with Steam, on X-bone, you don't have a choice in the matter.

THAT! is the difference.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

I'm sorry, but as awesome as selling on my digital games would have been, having to put up with my console blocking me from using it's primary function every time I exceeded 24 hours without an internet connection is not a restriction I am prepared to accept for that particular ability.

I'm not sure how you get the idea that you would have been able to resell "digital games", afaik that is what they wanted to prevent with the used games/lending/renting restrictions in the first place.
I collected most of the info from back then: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.408547-Xbox-One-is-a-trainwreck-waiting-to-happen-No-backwards-compatibility-blocking-used-games-DRM

Also, Steam has a really long offline mode of several weeks, no one's really sure because very few people have actually hit the limit, but the Xbox One DRM would have been constantly refusing to work for people who paid $500 for it, plus their games, because it automatically branded them criminals when they hit the arbitrary 24 hour limit.

Steam doesn't actually have a limit to its Offline Mode and they've stated so in an official answer: http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/864969953572102601/#c864969953730401285

This is not actually true - Offline Mode is designed to be indefinite. You can't access any of Steam's online features such as friends lists or saved game synchronization, of course, but the client should allow you to run in Offline Mode for as long as you like.

That said, there are many components involved in Offline Mode, and some of them have known issues and bugs which we are continually working to improve. We're aware that it doesn't always work as flawlessly as we want it to, but please keep reporting bugs with Offline Mode. It is not broken 'by design'.

We have been working very hard on upgrading the underlying technology in Steam. We have no community managers or PR people, so all the time that we spend on forums is taking away from development time. That said, I know that it's frustrating to get no response, and it looks like we aren't doing anything about it.

Many of the older games on Steam were using an older authentication system which has many known issues with Offline Mode and is incredibly difficult to maintain - it was written for a time when there were dozens of games on Steam, not thousands. We are in the process of upgrading every game in the Steam catalog to a newer authentication system (and fixing bugs that result from the conversion), but this is a slow and time-consuming process. Some day soon, once this work is completed, we will eliminate the old authentication system (represented by the ClientRegistry.blob file) and Offline Mode should immediately become much more robust.

Well paint me red and call me Cyril. I messed that up pretty badly, although it just strengthens the argument that the Xbox One's DRM is nothing like Steam, and the benefits the Xbox One had were not sufficient enough to warrant the DRM restrictions it imposed.

Thanks, I'll edit in changes to my original post before I get a million replies.

 

[senordesol]

OP, did it occur to you that people who like Steam and people who didn't like the Xbone initial pitch may not be one and the same?

The thing is: everything you're so excited that the console could have done, it COULD STILL DO without the draconian security measures. There is no reason the family share, lending programs had to be turned off.

MS could have simply said: if you buy a digital copy, you can lend it to your friends and anyone in your family can play it. If you buy a physical copy, you can lend or resell the disk as normal OR you could input some sort of code that would turn on the digital features (but would terminate the physical rights).

Everything you wanted; you would have got. Everything everyone else wanted; they would have got.

Improved digital business models are exciting, and companies are right to expand the features (with that, of course, certain compromises are to be expected) BUT when you apply a digital model to PHYSICAL MEDIA; people will get cranky.

If I buy a DVD, I don't want Samsung to run a check on my DVD player every time I want to watch it and have the damn thing brick if I don't have an internet connection (because I'm on the road or something). If I buy a movie on Amazon InstantPlay, however, and I can't watch it because the program cannot access my account; that was the risk I accepted by virtue of the fact that I bought it digitally.

 

[white_wolf]

The Xbox One wanted an all-online present and declared war on the traditional sense of ownership of console games. It deserved what it got.

This. They can't declare their customers to be pirates, cheats, and would be thieves and then just walk. As far as the family share plan MS could've kept it like it was they removed it out of spite knowing that was one of the very few positives their machine had going for it. There was no logical reason for them to get rid of it otherwise. They just want players fighting players.

 

[MysticSlayer]

Steam has an offline mode, and has done for years now. I can go without internet indefinitely if needs be, and still play the games in my (admittedly small) Steam library. The Xbone as originally envisioned would not do that.

Well, some games. I recently went without Internet for about 1 month and a lot of games on Steam weren't able to function. However, there were others that functioned perfectly, such as Half Life 2. It seems more like a case-by-case basis with Steam, though having the Half Life games and a bunch of indie titles will certainly help in holding onto many games in your library even if you lose online.

Three months ago Microsoft tried to revolutionize the concept of digital distribution and content ownership by allowing unprecedented capabilities to share your digital downloads with family and friends. It was ground breaking and a huge step forward for moving towards an all digital model. The underpinnings of the digital rights management that were, for all intents and purposes required, to power this caused a completely RIDICULOUS amount of backlash. So much so, Microsoft reversed their position and removed said DRM, and a major casualty of that being we now LOST all that ground breaking functionality that would not work without the associated rights management.

For starters, people actually liked the idea of game sharing. What caused people to be angry was that the Xbox One would require a 24-hour mandatory check-in and it appeared to have some serious issues with more traditional game sharing, renting games, and buying used games, and the mandatory Kinect and emphasis on being an all-in-one box rather than a gaming machine didn't help either. Of course, much of this was due to their attempts at adopting the shared games model they had, but it was hard to like the model when everything that came with it was so horrible and anti-consumer. Even when they eventually revealed the model, we learned that it was nothing more than a glorified demo of the game, not that you were really sharing your games. Consequently, we were really getting nothing truly good while being forced to stomach all the crap that came along with it.

Also, there is a fundamental difference between Steam and the Xbox One: One is a service, the other is a product. I don't have to buy Steam. I can choose to use it, but I am perfectly capable of not using it if I don't want to, as there are other options on the PC, such as GOG. My PC is also not rendered useless if I choose not to use it.

On the other hand, I would have to spend $500 on the Xbox One ($100 more than the PS4, which itself is more expensive than WiiU!). At that point, I am forced to use every feature of the Xbox One I don't like. When you compare the $500 I paid for that compared to the $0 I paid for Steam, then those features become more overbearing, as they are also putting a dent in my wallet while simultaneously inconveniencing me. And even though Steam is free and the Xbox One $500, Steam was still better, as I can use offline mode to play some of my games. I wouldn't have been able to do that with Xbox One if I lost internet for an extended period of time (and I'm saying this shortly after being without internet for a month!). That would have been one month of the Xbox One just sitting there being a $500 waste of space.

 

[Weaver]

Everyone liked the idea of family sharing. They hated the idea of an always online check every 24 hours and a nightvision, infrared, heartbeat sensing camera wired up to the NSA that had to be on or the machine wouldn't function. It was then further revealed that the Xbox one's plan was basically limited to 1 hour demos anyways. After that time limit, the user your sharing with would have been prompted to buy the game or stop playing it.

For the record, Valve's sharing plan sounds like complete dick.
It locks your entire library if someone wants to play ONE game from it. So I can't play ANY games if someone wants to play one of mine. Screw that.

 

[UnnDunn]

Everyone liked the idea of family sharing. They hated the idea of an always online check every 24 hours and a nightvision, infrared, heartbeat sensing camera wired up to the NSA that had to be on or the machine wouldn't function. It was then further revealed that the Xbox one's plan was basically limited to 1 hour demos anyways. After that time limit, the user your sharing with would have been prompted to buy the game or stop playing it.

For the record, Valve's sharing plan sounds like complete dick.
It locks your entire library if someone wants to play ONE game from it. So I can't play ANY games if someone wants to play one of mine. Screw that.

The Valve plan lets you always access your library, even if someone else is playing one of your games. If someone is playing your game, and you sign on and play, the other person will have a few minutes to log off, or buy their own copy of the game.

This is stated clearly in the FAQ for the Steam Family Sharing system. Please read it.

 

[Weaver]

Everyone liked the idea of family sharing. They hated the idea of an always online check every 24 hours and a nightvision, infrared, heartbeat sensing camera wired up to the NSA that had to be on or the machine wouldn't function. It was then further revealed that the Xbox one's plan was basically limited to 1 hour demos anyways. After that time limit, the user your sharing with would have been prompted to buy the game or stop playing it.

For the record, Valve's sharing plan sounds like complete dick.
It locks your entire library if someone wants to play ONE game from it. So I can't play ANY games if someone wants to play one of mine. Screw that.

The Valve plan lets you always access your library, even if someone else is playing one of your games. If someone is playing your game, and you sign on and play, the other person will have a few minutes to log off, or buy their own copy of the game.

This is stated clearly in the FAQ for the Steam Family Sharing system. Please read it.

I'll go do that. Thanks for the link.

edit: does it really matter? I can't play one game while someone else plays another. I'm not really sharing my game with someone.

 

[TehCookie]

Steam already has DRM, consoles do not. That's the difference.

I'm going be vocal when it comes to keeping that vile repulsive shit off consoles, I like to be able to play my games. DRM does not allow me to play them when I want to, Steam already bricks my games with no internet even with it's "offline mode." Which doesn't work unless I'm online which is redundant. I get kicked out from playing when my internet so much as has a 5 min hiccup (and the most recent game was Skyrim, which isn't multiplayer nor 24 hour DRM). Not to mention with my 3rd world internet it takes 10 hours to download the average AAA game.