When You Review A Game of Thrones, You Win or Die.
- Thread starter Archon
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Just do what I've done since Suck.com: Admit Heather Havrilesky is most likely correct. She's actually on the geek team.
Additional After Post Thinkin': I'd also like to point out that I've always found Susan's editorial voice to be very close to Heather's. It's a good thing, and it's part of why I'm such a fan of both.
BTW: Heather and I have tangoed [http://www.suck.com/daily/2000/11/15/nc_index4.html].
Additional After Post Thinkin': I'd also like to point out that I've always found Susan's editorial voice to be very close to Heather's. It's a good thing, and it's part of why I'm such a fan of both.
BTW: Heather and I have tangoed [http://www.suck.com/daily/2000/11/15/nc_index4.html].
I loved reading A Game Of Thrones and I just watched the first episode of HBO's version last night, and loved it too. Espcially the boobies. So many boobies!
Anyway, critics are often rather dumb - or rather, uninformed. They're given something to critique and may or may not have sufficient background to properly asses it. It's one thing to give a more opinionated column but when trying to pass off some higher reaching ideas it doesn't work so well when you're full of shit.
Anyway, critics are often rather dumb - or rather, uninformed. They're given something to critique and may or may not have sufficient background to properly asses it. It's one thing to give a more opinionated column but when trying to pass off some higher reaching ideas it doesn't work so well when you're full of shit.
The Article says it best, "When we founded The Escapist back in 2005, it was out of a belief that games deserved better journalism than the media at the time provided. But we knew, even then, that it wasn't just games - it was the entire field of "escapist" entertainment".
Fantasy books, like gaming, are often looked down upon and viewed as childish or inferior. The problem is that reviewers in traditional media don't generally have a passion for gaming or fantasy books. They are simply hired reviewers who lack the interest and appreciation in the mediums.
The song of fire and ice series deserves high praise. The fact that a lot of mainstream reviewers failed to give it that isn't surprising. If you want a decent review on a fantasy book go to a place/reviewer who really knows/loves fantasy. Same with gaming.
Fantasy books, like gaming, are often looked down upon and viewed as childish or inferior. The problem is that reviewers in traditional media don't generally have a passion for gaming or fantasy books. They are simply hired reviewers who lack the interest and appreciation in the mediums.
The song of fire and ice series deserves high praise. The fact that a lot of mainstream reviewers failed to give it that isn't surprising. If you want a decent review on a fantasy book go to a place/reviewer who really knows/loves fantasy. Same with gaming.
Wait, if it was founded in 2005, how am I a member since 2004? I agree though, Epic Fantasy is Epic Fantasy. Some of us enjoy it immensely.
I agree with the article up to a point....sometimes I do believe fantasy/sci-fi writers do base their stories off of historical events (like i think i heared star wars was an example)....I however don't think a game a thrones was based off current events as one of the critics stated (if i understood it right lol)....especially since the books came out years ago....i dont think Martin could forsee the future....i think >.>
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I knew that if a series ever came out all the sex scenes would probably be something debated about lol...and when i heared HBO was doing it i knew they would definitely put in those scenes...especially after watching a season of Rome lolWolfram01 said:
One could argue that Tolkien, with his WWI experience, was reacting against post-Great War nihilism and that modern epic fantasy has just been following in his footsteps in that respect - just about the exact opposite of what the second NYT's review is claiming.
I'm not sure I care what either of them think. No offense to reviewers, but they have very little to no input as to whether I watch or buy something. what I do care about is fairly simple. I want this show to be profitable for HBO so that they continue with it. it's great story(even unfinished) and should be told
The fringe media diversions like Sci-fi/Fantasy and gaming, board, digital or otherwise, will come into its own with time. As the older generations release control of what society deems acceptable and new blood brings their value set to the mainstream, all things will change.
Until that time, we'll just have to don our +5 Platemail suits of Denial and pick up our Vorpal Long swords of self-reassurance and carry on the good fight.
Onward, To Legitimacy, Brothers & Sisters!
Until that time, we'll just have to don our +5 Platemail suits of Denial and pick up our Vorpal Long swords of self-reassurance and carry on the good fight.
Onward, To Legitimacy, Brothers & Sisters!
Well, this is addressed in Tolkien's views on allegory and applicability. In an allegory the author uses themes to make a comment on events and attitudes. Lewis Carroll's Alice books or Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 are great examples. Both authors began with a point and create a story that helps make that point. (Though it should be said, the point most readers get may not be what the author intended.) Tolkien and Martin seem to be carried more by the story, and the themes arise out of the character's circumstances and reactions.Badwolf14 said:
I don't think there's a clear black-and-white division here, but you can bet that if an author realistically and honestly treats the universal human experience, then the themes will find applicability in all ages. It's why we still read Herodotus and Hamlet and Huckleberry Finn. Those books are about what it's like to be a person, to struggle against pride and search for identity.
Honestly, I don't think this does them enough credit. It's without hyperbole that I say that they're among the best novels I have ever read, irrespective of genre. In terms of genre, however, I fully believe that, in terms of what I think they will ultimately do for the genre, they're the most important work of fantasy fiction since LotR.godofallu said:
Verisimilitude is a very important term when it comes to discussing this series. People have said that it's nihilistic, and it is. Westeros isn't a nice place, but then neither is the world we live in, really. There are moments of hope, but for the most part it's a very bleak series, what with being a deconstruction of fantasy fiction. The central theme of the novels is power, in my opinion: what people will do to get it, what people will do to keep it, and what happens the poor bastards who get caught between them. People die cruelly and seemingly randomly, because that's what death is: cruel and random.Archon said:
Reviewers often miss the point with fantasy; it's hardly anything new. They see it, like videogames, as something for kids. Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of ASoIaF can say that's not the case.
Fuck yeah Lancaster! I wish we had as much Gold as the Lannister's do in Lancashire though. Slightly more on topic: I think the problem is that reviewers place too much importance on their own society/setting and not on people. Fantasy and Science Fiction is often, although not always, about how despite the society/setting changing people stay the same. Many reviewers try and find allegorical messages about the society/setting they live in when in fact the message is about Human Nature.
I used to love her TV reviews on Salon.com when I was a more regular reader. Glad to see she's still prominent in the field.SaintWaldo said:
I will always be grateful to Martin for finally wrenching epic fantasy out from under Tolkien's looming shadow. While there were many previous noble efforts, A Song of Ice and Fire is the true genre-changer. Fantasy epics are freer to explore complex social and political relationships without being locked into Campbell's mythic structure and messianic narratives, which basically turned me off the genre 10 years ago. It's welcome and refreshing.Anachronism said:
I quite enjoyed Game of Thrones. Though, as someone who hasn?t read Song of Ice and Fire, I found the first episode over stuffed with exposition. But I suppose that?s an inevitable consequence of dealing with several chapters in just over an hour?s screen time.
I have a philosophical objection to the use of gratuitous full frontal nudity. Game of Thrones (and it?s spiritual predecessor Rome) throw out bums, tits (and to a lesser extent, rippling six-packs *grumble*), not because it?s editorially justified, but because they can get away with it in a historical/fantasy piece. If you were to put those same scenes in a modern setting, it would be considered porn. Movie Bob has spoken about the Hayes Code in the past, and this is basically the same thing.
Let me reiterate; I have no objection to nubile young (or older for that matter) actresses writhing around in their all-together. My concern is that period dramas are adopting a rather pornographic sensibility, which I?m not convinced is in the best interest of the genre.
I have a philosophical objection to the use of gratuitous full frontal nudity. Game of Thrones (and it?s spiritual predecessor Rome) throw out bums, tits (and to a lesser extent, rippling six-packs *grumble*), not because it?s editorially justified, but because they can get away with it in a historical/fantasy piece. If you were to put those same scenes in a modern setting, it would be considered porn. Movie Bob has spoken about the Hayes Code in the past, and this is basically the same thing.
Let me reiterate; I have no objection to nubile young (or older for that matter) actresses writhing around in their all-together. My concern is that period dramas are adopting a rather pornographic sensibility, which I?m not convinced is in the best interest of the genre.
Thank you, Escapist, for fighting the battle of our escapist media.
A bad review (or a bunch of bad reviews) will not make me stop loving the games, shows, movies, books, etc that I choose to love... and in some cases, the medium chose me. However, that lack of credibility, of ridicule, of childishness and sexism bestowed on OUR media by more "stream" sources is tiring and an uphill battle.
So thank you again for helping us fight that battle.
A bad review (or a bunch of bad reviews) will not make me stop loving the games, shows, movies, books, etc that I choose to love... and in some cases, the medium chose me. However, that lack of credibility, of ridicule, of childishness and sexism bestowed on OUR media by more "stream" sources is tiring and an uphill battle.
So thank you again for helping us fight that battle.