Where Did it all come from?

[Maximum Bert]

Everyone has there reasons I personally havent liked EA since 1990 or 1991 cant remember exactly but I know it was one of these years because of the date on their sports games as for why I initially disliked them it was because, one their logo yes this is a real petty reason but for some reason their logo makes me want to wretch whenever I see it and secondly it was because of their year in year out recycle of games with seeming little change.

Over the years what they have become and their constant attempts to exploit the consumer have just cemented my distaste for them but then again I dont support them usually. In all my years I have only ever bought one game made by EA (which was mildly disappointing) and two others published by them (which were actually pretty damn good) I just stay the hell away from them which is pretty easy as I have no interest in sports games and little in FPS and RTS.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

1: their insecure fan base you cannot claim to not like Valve without people baying for your blood

How is that the company's fault? Seriously, how? I'm genuinely curious, that's like hating a movie because the fans annoy you, it makes no sense, and has nothing to do with the film itself.

2: I dislike their games I am willing to put up with a lot of shit from a company if the games are fun I don't get that with Valve I mean some people will be nice to a game If it gets a lot of praise me I'm gonna be a lot harsher to it, If you tell me Half life 2 Is the best game ever I will play it expecting the best game ever so when I see a half decent fps that other company's have done better, It leaves me scratching my Head.

Okay, you don't like their games, that's fine. People like them, them liking Half Life 2 does not make it the best game ever, but neither does your view make it the worst, it's called an opinion and they don't usually equal facts. Just go by what you think about games, what you enjoy, don't listen to other people on that apart from getting straight facts about something, like how it runs and what genre a game is etc.

As for EA, Ultima 9 is one reason, another is their poor customer service and their business practices, I would say more, but others in this thread have covered that.

 

[Gameguy20100]

1: their insecure fan base you cannot claim to not like Valve without people baying for your blood

How is that the company's fault? Seriously, how? I'm genuinely curious, that's like hating a movie because the fans annoy you, it makes no sense, and has nothing to do with the film itself.

I can not deal with a bad fanbase Its the main reason I hate Cod I do have exceptions like starwars and Mass effect but all IN all a bad fanbase can really grate my teeth

 

[chozo_hybrid]

1: their insecure fan base you cannot claim to not like Valve without people baying for your blood

How is that the company's fault? Seriously, how? I'm genuinely curious, that's like hating a movie because the fans annoy you, it makes no sense, and has nothing to do with the film itself.

I can not deal with a bad fanbase Its the main reason I hate Cod I do have exceptions like starwars and Mass effect but all IN all a bad fanbase can really grate my teeth

You may have to leave the internet... Joking aside, it's a shame you can't just ignore all that. After all, if you don't like fan base, stay away from the fans etc you can still play the games. Maybe you'll grow out of it and be able to look past it one day, I used to be like that myself.

 

[bafrali]

snip

And you were talking about other people's insecurity? Do you realize the amount of irony here?

OT: I guess it was a result of an ongoing streak of fuck-ups. Those of us who valued the industry feared that EA's marketing philosophy would set a bad example. Those of us who valued developers were pissed off when they were mistreated. Those of us who value the franchise's under EA's banner were outraged when they were "broader appeal"'ed. Those of who hate DRM etc...

I get the feeling that this thread will be the continuation of the previous thread.

 

[DrunkOnEstus]

I'm going to quote one of their earliest print ads, also frequently found within the manuals of their games in the early 90s:

Spoiler

Can a Computer Make You Cry?

Right now, no one knows. This is partly because many would consider the very idea frivolous. But it's also because whoever successfully answers this question must first have answered several others.

Why do we cry? Why do we laugh, or love, or smile? What are the touchstones of our emotions?

Until now, the people who asked such questions tended not to be the same people who ran software companies. Instead, they were writers, filmmakers, painters, musicians. They were, in the traditional sense, artists.

We're about to change that tradition. The name of our company is Electronic Arts.
Software worthy of the minds that use it.

We are a new association of electronic artists united by a common goal?to fulfill the enormous potential of the personal computer.

In the short term, this means transcending its present use as a facilitator of unimaginative tasks and a medium for blasting aliens. In the long term, however, we can expect a great deal more.

These are wondrous machines we have created, and in them can be seen a bit of their makers. It is as if we had invested them with the image of our minds. And through them, we are learning more and more about ourselves.

We learn, for instance, that we are more entertained by the involvement of our imaginations than by passive viewing and listening. We learn that we are better taught by experiences than by memorization. And we learn that the traditional distinctions?the ones that are made between art and entertainment and education?don't always apply.
Towards a language of dreams.

In short, we are finding that the computer can be more than just a processor of data.

It is a communications medium: an interactive tool that can bring people's thoughts and feelings closer together, perhaps closer than ever before. And while fifty years from now, its creation may seem no more important than the advent of motion pictures or television, there is a chance it will mean something more.

Something along the lines of a universal language of ideas and emotions. Something like a smile.

The first publications of Electronic Arts are now available. We suspect you'll be hearing a lot about them. Some of them are games like you've never seen before, that get more out of your computer than other games ever have. Others are harder to categorize?and we like that.
Watch us.

We're providing a special environment for talented, independent software artists. It's a supportive environment, in which big ideas are given room to grow. And some of America's most respected software artists are beginning to take notice.

We think our current work reflects this very special commitment. And though we are few in number today and apart from the mainstream of the mass software marketplace, we are confident that both time and vision are on our side.

Join us. We see farther.

My answer is that they have done so much to completely piss away that statement, that in recent years it feels like an intentional parody and trolling of the statement. They would acquire so much good will from the community by simply reading those lines and enacting even half of it. It was the stated goal after all, that can't be asking too much.

 

[Gameguy20100]

1: their insecure fan base you cannot claim to not like Valve without people baying for your blood

How is that the company's fault? Seriously, how? I'm genuinely curious, that's like hating a movie because the fans annoy you, it makes no sense, and has nothing to do with the film itself.

I can not deal with a bad fanbase Its the main reason I hate Cod I do have exceptions like starwars and Mass effect but all IN all a bad fanbase can really grate my teeth

You may have to leave the internet... Joking aside, it's a shame you can't just ignore all that. After all, if you don't like fan base, stay away from the fans etc you can still play the games. Maybe you'll grow out of it and be able to look past it on day, I used to be like that myself.

Maybe but its more the outrageous lionization I mean Ive pointed out the faults of Valve and steam the amount of terrible insults can range from funny to just downright disgusting I won't repeat them here because there IS a good chance I will get banned

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Snip.

Fair enough, I'm not trying to bait you or anything. I'm a Valve fan, but I know they aren't perfect, all I can say is, I hope it doesn't get in the way of you enjoying games.

 

[The Funslinger]

1) Bad PR. EA executives said a lot of stupid things that made them look bad even when they didn't actually do anything bad (or anything at all)
2) Bad customer service on Origin. There were quite a few articles about EA banning people which removed those people's access to the games they bought
3) Bad business practices. While other companies do that as well, EA seems to be the most consistent in picking up the worst ideas they could find. (This might not be true - which leads to 1-Bad PR )

Not to mention they seem to have a habit of buying up beloved developers and bleeding them to death. Even ignoring that Bioware is still going, I think people were attached to a lot of those developers and were pissed about that.

Hell, we've all seen this:

 

[Gameguy20100]

Snip.

Fair enough, I'm not trying to bait you or anything. I'm a Valve fan, but I know they aren't perfect, all I can say is, I hope it doesn't get in the way of you enjoying games.

*ignites Lightsaber* *hesitates*

So your a Valve fan who respects other peoples opinion and admits they have flaws ...... talk about being at war with yourself

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Snip.

Fair enough, I'm not trying to bait you or anything. I'm a Valve fan, but I know they aren't perfect, all I can say is, I hope it doesn't get in the way of you enjoying games.

*ignites Lightsaber* *hesitates*

So your a Valve fan who respects other peoples opinion and admits they have flaws ...... talk about being at war with yourself

Not all fans are the rabid sort, what people tend to witness is a vocal minority, because the ones that don't care about others opinions are usually having fun doing what they're doing instead of trying to justify what they like to other people they've never met At least that's how I see it.

Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread, so back to EA: despite wrong doings of other gaming companies, EA has been doing noticeably worse of late and that's where a lot of it is coming from. Treating customers like crap like they have a tendency to do is one of the main reasons I don't like them, I've had them not help me on a few issues at all, so I'm not a fan of them personally.

 

[IronMit]

EA gets harshly criticized for everything they do. And they certainly deserve some of that criticism, but not all of it. The thing that bothers me the most is when they finance a promising new game (in other words, a developer comes to them with a unique idea, and they front the necessary funds for it) and then EA precedes to hamstring it by trying to make it "more appealing".

A great example is Mirror's Edge. People say we should be thankful for EA, because without them, Mirror's Edge wouldn't have been made. But I disagree. I think an independent developer making a game like that could have done a better job. If you want to make a first person parkour game, you should spend all your efforts making that vision work. Instead, EA decided there was no real precedent for it, so they did what they always do. They threw in guns and pretty graphics. Guns and pretty graphics are fine by themselves, but were not necessary for this particular game.

I kind of agree with this; EA doesn't get any + or - points for Mirror's Edge as the + and - kind of cancel each other out in this case. But at least it's a new IP. (But when it came out it was the time to have new IP's)

I would like to extend this line of thinking to other publishers though;

Rockstar- LA Noire - A detective game does not have to be a 3rd person shooter. Was this the studio's choice or did the publisher encourage them to do this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZM2jXyvGOc

Ubisoft- Prince of perisa got streamlined. Play the first trilogy and then play the latest instalment - in the last game I never had to stop and think...the camera turned to the correct direction for me. Someone made the decision to dumb this game down...

Square Enix- Hitman absolution- (I have many many issues but I will settle on one) - mandatory radar in a slow paced 3rd person perspective game. That can only be turned off if you turn everything off. A more 'cinematic' Tomb radar with puzzles being sidequests and a crap load of shooting because 'they do what they always do'.

I'm unsure what was the dev's decision or the publishers in the above cases.
My point is EA is as bad as most competitors in this case. Especially Ubisoft .... and Square Enix's 2 latest AAA games are worrying. (Deus ex Hr development had started before Eidos acquisition so that doesn't count).

I hate EA too, the quality of games reason isn't why it wins the douchebag award though. It's everything else. ubisoft and capcom are hot on it's heals when it comes to service. Even Valve have one or two annoys practices...but EA edges it by managing to adopt every annoying practice a competitor tries and then pushes them further and makes some more up.

Then the icing on the cake is releasing statements about how good it is.

 

[Gameguy20100]

So let me reverse the question on you, OP. Why so much Valve hate? Are you merely lashing out at "the golden child" because you feel EA is being unfairly attacked? You've admitted at least once that you were wrong about Valve (the banned account situation), so is it fair to assume that you don't really dislike Valve, but rather, you don't know much about them?

The Reason I dislike Valve well there are a couple of reasons

1: their insecure fan base you cannot claim to not like Valve without people baying for your blood
2: I dislike their games I am willing to put up with a lot of shit from a company if the games are fun I don't get that with Valve I mean some people will be nice to a game If it gets a lot of praise me I'm gonna be a lot harsher to it, If you tell me Half life 2 Is the best game ever I will play it expecting the best game ever so when I see a half decent fps that other company's have done better, It leaves me scratching my Head.

1. I wouldn't say the fanbase is insecure, I'd say we're frustrated that so many people who have just joined the gaming "community" on the coat tails of the Xbox and Call of Duty popularity can't appreciate what Valve have done for gaming.

2. Half Life 2 is a fantastic game. Always keep in mind that HL2 is almost 10 years old. When it was released, there WAS no other first person shooter like it - it was absolutely tops, as good as it gets. Best graphics, best physics, immersive world, etc. Of COURSE over the next TEN YEARS other companies would "do it better". Technology has improved and games are now bigger with much bigger budgets.

You need to consider that Valve wasn't the billion dollar company they are today, back in 2004 - which was also when Steam was launched.


So if those are reasons for you to HATE Valve, then I have to say, it really ruins your credibility for posting a thread asking WHY people hate EA, when EA has actually taken steps to offend its own customers, meanwhile Valve has not.

Seems to me your entire perception is misguided and you're like one of those people who hates a popular sports team because... because.


I also have to point out, you keep crediting EA with successful games, but you are missing one key difference:

Valve is a DEVELOPER (as in, creates, from start to finish) their own games.

Electronic Arts does NOT develop (create) ANY games. EA is a PUBLISHING company, they PUBLISH other developers work in exchange for a contract that ensures that those developers will continue to use EA as their publisher and gives EA some creative control over the titles.

Valve allows developers to self-publish through Steam. Even developers locked into a contract with other publishers can release their games on Steam, which is why even though you are already using Steam to launch your game, you still sometimes have to deal with Windows Home or UPlay and all of that bullshit.

I judge a company on their products EA can do what ever they want with their company when they stop publishing games I like I will consider them going down hill but only then. The whole simcity thing and micro-transactions I don't play those games and Im smart enough to know when Im being ripped off so Its not my problem

 

[Sectan]

As for EA, Ultima 9 is one reason, another is their poor customer service and their business practices, I would say more, but others in this thread have covered that.

What's a Paladin?

The Codex of....Ultimate Wisdom?

Anyways to answer the OP's question it was a fairly gradual thing. If you look back in my library around the Gamecube era most of my games will be from EA. The Original Sims, Every Sims 2 expansion (Not the stuff packs). NFS Underground and Carbon. Goldeneye, Command and Conquer Renegade, James Bond: Everything or Nothing, From Russsia With Love and plenty more. When I bought the Sims 3 I saw they had an online market to buy items. Online passes on console games. I couldn't have LAN games with my brothers anymore and these weren't games connected to an online distribution thing, these were stand alone games I held in my hand. I don't despise EA or anything, but those things just rubbed me the wrong way. If I could walk into a store, buy a game from EA, put it in my disc drive and not have to type in a code that takes way too long on a controller I'd be happy with that. If they sold games on Origin at competitive prices and had deals on games that rivaled Steam I'd probably be more open to Origin. But as it stands I have no use for Origin or EA. There are plenty of other developers and publishers that don't make me jump through hoops to play their games.


TLR I don't hate EA, it's just easier to buy things from someone else.

 

[distortedreality]

snip

I'd hate to see any essays that you've written.

Back OT - I remember back in the 90's when EA was an up and coming company. It really is a shame to see how corrupted they've become since then. I'd hate to see the same thing happen Valve, but tbh, while the big fella is still the (sort of) boss, I can't see that happening.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

I judge a company on their products EA can do what ever they want with their company when they stop publishing games I like I will consider them going down hill but only then. The whole simcity thing and micro-transactions I don't play those games and Im smart enough to know when Im being ripped off so Its not my problem

So they can rip off people, and you're fine with it because you don't happen to play the games they do that with. That's a very narrow perspective. It seems to me that you started this thread to get an answer, now that people have given you their answer, you don't like what you're hearing.

You're defending their practices etc, in the same way that you claim fans of other things do. You like them, the bad things they do haven't affected you, so it doesn't count as a negative for them. That seems to be the stance you're taking.

As for EA, Ultima 9 is one reason, another is their poor customer service and their business practices, I would say more, but others in this thread have covered that.

What's a Paladin?

The Codex of....Ultimate Wisdom?

I'm not entirely sure... What it is that you're getting at.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

I hate their business practises, their attitude towards customers, their treatment of developers and their attitude towards games. And I'm getting sick and tired of hearing other people reason it away as if they've found the underlying irrational cause of all hatred of EA. No. I just fucking hate most of what they do and I have good reasons for it most of the time. Not because I'm a Valve fanboy, not because I used to look up to EA, neither of which are true, they're actively pushing anti-consumer (read: anti-me) business practises and turning good games into yearly rehashes with no attempt made to understand what the core of the game is and why it sells.

And as for you, as if the first thread wasn't enough, your hate for Valve is a joke. Your two main reasons are 1. that you can't dislike it without people being annoyed (which isn't a reason to dislike it, by the way), which leaves us with 2. You don't like their games. Do you have any opinion at all about their treatment of customers? Or their support? Or their willingness to discount games massively? Their ethics as a publisher, not as a developer (speaking of which, the only games EA makes are sports games)? I'll admit that they still price gouge Australians with regular prices, and that's one mark against them in my book, but so does Origin, despite claims that EA wants to lower prices through digital distribution.

Maybe it is just PR and Valve secretly thinks the same. They're going to build up trust and then overnight, put microtransactions everywhere and start releasing Half Life episodes every year. But they've managed not to do that yet, and there's no indication they might, where EA is actively pursuing that business model and is stupid enough to make that blatantly obvious.

 

[Gameguy20100]

I judge a company on their products EA can do what ever they want with their company when they stop publishing games I like I will consider them going down hill but only then. The whole simcity thing and micro-transactions I don't play those games and Im smart enough to know when Im being ripped off so Its not my problem

So they can rip off people, and you're fine with it because you don't happen to play the games they do that with. That's a very narrow perspective. It seems to me that you started this thread to get an answer, now that people have given you the answer, you don't like what you're hearing.

You're defending their practices etc, in the same way that you claim fans of other things do. You like them, the bad things they do haven't affected you, so it doesn't count as a negative for them. That seems to be the stance you're taking.

Well I just Find It really weird that people hate EA for things but don't give other company's hate for it. Like Microtransactions Valve has had some Ridiculous ones all those hats In TF2 are about £10 a piece and they don't do anything I know people say "their purely cosmetic" But Am I the only one who sees something a bit Iffy with buying cosmetic hats In a game That locks you In first person.... Think about that you're always in first person and you're buying hats for your character WHY! now I don't have an issue with that If it makes money I have no problem with Valve abusing it but you know what crosses the line for me With Valve and TF2 the £100 engagement ring thing that Is stupid a cosmetic Item, does nothing, £100

 

[Yopaz]

So people really really really want to play the video games that they create but are bugged a lot by the practices that EA does. It's like going to a restaurant that serves the best food in your town but is staffed by a bunch of rude assholes for waiters.

Wouldn't it make it a bad restaurant? Most restaurant reviews will note the service and not just the food.
There was a discussion about it somewhere. When reviewing a game, should you also review the service it comes with?
If it's a good game but you have to go through hell to make it work, should it be reflected in the score?

edit:
This is something that happened to me:
A friend came by, and knowing i play a lot of games, asked what is the best looking game i have.
I wanted to show him BF3. So i launched it, Origin came up - "Origin requires an update"
So i waited a few minutes for the update. Then the browser UI came up and said i need to update BF3 - i think it was about 500MB update. I tried to cancel the update , since i only needed the single player to show the game. But no, the update is mandatory - it won't launch even the single player without updating first. The update ETA was a few hours. So due to the Origin "service" i couldn't show him the game.

The update system is my main problem with Origin too. Origin must be the only product left in the world that has an update system that makes you think you're installing something from scratch. Steam, Web Browsers, Anti-virus software, Media players can all update in the background and you wont know it's happening, these also let you use the software while it's updating.

As for individual games you mentioned Origin's system so I wont, but look at Steam. Games are updated by themselves and most games will just pause their update if you start them. This is a pretty good system, but they have been doing this for years so we can't expect EA to manage something that works as well, can we?

Oh, Nintendo have barely been able to update games without sending out new discs before, what are you doing when games have to be updated on the Wii U? You let people update while they are playing the game and give people the option to restart the game when the update is finished?

Really, when you offer worse online service than Nintendo something is really, really wrong.

OT: A lot of the hate around EA is exaggerated, but they really aren't doing well when it comes to their publicity. They're not evil and they're not the worst company out there, but they are making people angry for various reasons. I for one am astounded at the fact that they bought PopCap then fired the guy behind Plants VS Zombies then announced Plants VS Zombies 2 literally the same week.

 

[Bad Jim]

I think EA is mainly unpopular because it is big, and therefore whenever a game is in the headlines for being an abomination, there is a good chance that it's an EA game.

Valve, on the other hand, just don't release many games, and therefore don't incur our hatred as often. We still get regular hate threads about Half Life 2, a game released nine years ago, which is way further back than most EA hatred goes.

What Valve does is distribution, which is relatively safe from gamer hatred. They're not the ones who have to spend increasingly crazy amounts of money on development then somehow make that money back. It's easy to say "trim the fat" and point out that it's mostly marketing but as soon as they stop spending that money they will immediately lose sales to Ubisoft, Activision etc. Valve just sells the games and take a cut.