That was one of the games we were talking about if you read back a bit i linked 3 articles talking about the piracy rates on indie gamesSouplex said:
(he was just stateing pulling stats from torrent download counter is unreliable)
Which is the bigger problem? Piracy or DRM?
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(he was just stateing pulling stats from torrent download counter is unreliable)
Alright. Let's look at some hard statistics:direkiller said:
Nintendo DS in US - $169.99 for a DSi XL
Price in Europe - Link [http://news245.com/nintendo-ds-and-nintendo-ds-xl-lowered-its-price-in-the-u-s/110854.htm] - ? 176.95 to ? 161.95 = $282.39 - $258.35 give or take a few cents.
This is the price, Right now.
Correct me if I'm wrong but that's damn expensive for a handheld. No wonder their numbers slid so much. The piracy is just an excuse.
\direkiller said:
Ok...
Linkage [http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/21139]
also Linkage [http://gamrfeed.vgchartz.com/story/82589/highlights-from-nintendos-corporate-briefing/]
I'm pretty sure that if the price is too high, then people won't buy a new DS. From the looks, they've been buying the older models at the cheaper price. Again, when the DS games already cost 80-90 dollars US, people are going to rethink about purchasing something.
games(as in the cartage you stick in the back not the DS itself) cost about $20Gindil said:
Assuming everyone's DS dint just flat out break the numbers say the same or go up for number of DS's owned(so the starting price is not an issue). People were also buying the games before that(else the sales would not have dropped as much).
Yes outer factors can contribute to people not buying games. but unless they raised the price of the cartridges and people stopped buying them because of it your point doesn't factor in because they were buying games just a few month earlier.
It's $30 dollars for the games. But it makes no sense to buy a game if you don't already have the console. Since it's such an investment to put all of the money into a DS (or DSi), then why would people sink money into the cartridge?direkiller said:
Furthermore, Nintendo has an effective monopoly on the handheld market which is being ignored. The PSP is basically dead, and no one else has stepped in to try to compete with the 20 year behemoth. What the last two years of decline have suggested is that the price of the European model DS is too expensive. In this market, the games are complimentary goods, not substitutes. If one is too expensive, why would people pay for it? That's why I'm convinced that we'll hear about a price drop in Europe soon. As my second link says:
Some perspective. I am well aware of the proliferation of games outside of copyright laws. But blaming everything on the chip is kind of a lopsided battle, especially when everyone knows that a download does NOT equal a lost sale. If you look at it in this manner, you'll be doing exactly what the MPAA or RIAA are doing which is running to the government for enforcement. That's not going to solve the problem. What will is understanding your customers in a market and catering to them, which Nintendo isn't doing in Europe, period. If the chip is getting more popular, and people aren't buying your product, that means you've made a black market for it. Best thing is to stop price gouging and drop it. I'm failing to see how that isn't getting through.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you said DRM stops piracy, it clearly doesn't. What I was trying to point out is the assumption that DRM was a reaction in response to piracy is a little difficult to believe when it even seem to focus entirely on hampering resale, not preventing piracy.Jesus Phish said:
Are we talking about games or piracy in general? Because in the case of games I honestly believe that DRM is a lot worse than piracy (And not just because I hate all groups of organized people). I mean, all the crap that it takes to actually pirate a game...... it's not as easy as it sounds and really to some extent it's the reward for understanding what the original hacker wrote.
But DRM seems like a punishment for doing the right thing and actually BUYING the digital object in question. I mean, when people are scouring the internet for illegal ways to get around the protection on software that the ALREADY BOUGHT, that's when you have to wonder if you're doing the right thing.
So yeah, my views on piracy aside, some protection is a good thing, it validates having bought the software. But too much security results in computer-smashing frustration.
Note: I made little paragraphs because I find massive walls of text intimidating and thought that if I broke it up into smaller chunks it's more likely to get read.
But DRM seems like a punishment for doing the right thing and actually BUYING the digital object in question. I mean, when people are scouring the internet for illegal ways to get around the protection on software that the ALREADY BOUGHT, that's when you have to wonder if you're doing the right thing.
So yeah, my views on piracy aside, some protection is a good thing, it validates having bought the software. But too much security results in computer-smashing frustration.
Note: I made little paragraphs because I find massive walls of text intimidating and thought that if I broke it up into smaller chunks it's more likely to get read.
a pirate against piracy???????????Pirate Kitty said:
whats the world coming to lol
but on a serious note Of course Piracy is a problem for game companies and DRM is just painful to everyone
The industry had a 10% downturn for the past 2 years (19% total reduction in sales sense 2008) resulting in lost jobs.Gindil said:
Its not that hard to understand. but here is an example. Starcraft 2 cost $60 when it first comes out. You don't want to pay more then $30 so you don't buy it right away. As the price drops more people will buy the game(theres a few people who are not willing to pay over $55,$45 and so on, so basically as time goes on they get the customer base that was willing to wait to pay a lower price). However if a crack comes out before they run the entire range of prices people who were going to buy the game when it gets down to $30 don't because they have it for free. That is were the lost income comes into play not for the people willing to pay full price for a game but the people willing to buy it 6months from now for $30.
04/20/2010 is when that article came out summer had nothing to do with itGindil said:
Also the HIB was for charity so the high piracy rates on that just goes to show how little people care.
They're both equal. One causes the other. Piracy causes DRM, DRM causes more Piracy, more Piracy causes more DRM. It's repetitive and will completely recycle. -.treading lightly on this topic.-
Let's look at it this way.
If piracy disappeared, so would DRM.
If DRM disappeared, piracy wouldn't.
Take that how you will.
If piracy disappeared, so would DRM.
If DRM disappeared, piracy wouldn't.
Take that how you will.
DRM isn't used to deal with used game sales; any used piece of PC software is still going to have the same DRM attached to it that it would have had unused and it will work just the same. DLC, on the other hand, is something publishers are more than happy to use to combat used games.Garak73 said:
That's like saying people don't use Steam when they run their specials. I can get the same game for free but obviously Steam offers something more than just the game itself. It's subtle but you're still arguing that every download is a lost sale, when it's clearly not. IIRC, Blizzard offers tons more features to its games than just the game itself, which allows them to keep it at $60. As I see it, and as others point out, obscurity is far worse [http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080102/163225.shtml] than piracy.direkiller said:
And you really can't lose income if it was never gained in the first place. I refuse to buy new games at anything more than $20. That's my motto. So if a new game comes out at $60, then how am I a customer that they cater to? I'm not. I'm a fan of used games and Steam deals. If a developer wants my money, they have to go through those avenues and meet me halfway. That's the economics of the situation. Through this scenario, nothing is being said about piracy. But add this to the equation, plus the higher prices in Europe (Czech Republic comes to mind) and you have a black market, as I've discussed earlier. Just to drive the point home, look at Brazil [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_201/6059-A-Nation-of-Pirates]. It had a legal gaming system until the industry lobbied for higher prices. Then it all went to hell in a hand basket.
First, the 4/20 thing missed my point about summer being slower for game sales in general. Fall is slow also, but all gaming usually picks up in the Christmas months.Gindil said:
...
So they make money, and it's not okay because perhaps someone puts it on a torrent and makes it accessible to others and somehow that's bad as well?
Still don't agree that piracy is hurting people [http://www.undergroundthecomic.com/2010/10/pictures-help-us-learn/]. Then again, it's not a science that people will support things if they feel they're for a right cause.
Then why does a new code for Cerberus Database cost 90% of the US market value of the game? Why can't I play DA:O without first obtaining an active connection to the DA servers? Why does a Ubisoft code require a registering for Uplay and a constant internet connection? Why does Blizzard have it's clients for SC2 and WoW available for Free download, yet requires payment of the full market price for the activation codes?RollForInitiative said:
