White Knights, the true enemies of sexual equality.

[spartan231490]

Why would I defend someone because they are a person? I hate most people I meet.

All joking aside, this isn't as big of an issue as you are making it out to be. Yes it's sexist, yes it's prevalent, but it's far from the greatest threat to sexual equality. Especially when you consider that a lot of the guys who do the whole "White Knight" thing, would jump to the rescue of anyone at all who was being treated poorly, either because they are just too good-natured for their own good, or because they are just so arrogant they think the whole world needs to be saved by them.

 

[ChildishLegacy]

So calling sexists out on sexism is sexist in all cases?
Mmmmk.

I'd like to think calling people out on that stuff is a bash at their terrible ideology, not trying to 'save a damsel in distress'. But it seems you can't win if you get labelled a sexist for trying to demote it, so I guess we should all give up and let stuff like this be spread all over the internet. Good idea.

Just because a guy is fighting against discrimination doesn't mean he's patronising the target of that discrimination. You don't see people arguing with racists being told they are only doing that because they want to be in the good books of another person of that race. No, I will speak out against any kind of discrimination because it is wrong, not because they seem helpless, the people who discriminate need a fucking slap, rather than the people being discriminated against needing to be protected.

 

[AngloDoom]

-snip-

[...]There is nothing wrong with a man telling someone they're out of line for treating a woman badly, just as there is nothing wrong with a woman telling someone they're out of line of treating a man badly. People should defend people when they're being treated unfairly. Period.

However, many white knights don't attack issues of "get back in the kitchen" or "make me a sandwich" jokes on multiplayer voice chat. No, they're on forums, making long and irate posts about how portraying female heroes in bikinis is so sexist and disgusting and everybody should feel like pigs for playing SkullGirls because those girls are in skimpy outfits. Skimpy outfits are not inherently sexist, and claiming they are isn't helping any REAL cases of sexism in popular media (like the sitcom trope where the male of a couple can look average or even a bit ugly but the female always has to be slim and attractive [see King of Queens, Everybody Loves Raymond, George Lopez, and the Flintstones])[...].

And that's a wrap!

Honestly, this is all that needs to be said. There needs to be a clear distinction between 'white knights' and people with a genuine concern. Hell, even being a 'white knight' to get attention and admiration isn't particularly a bad thing, since it's the same reason most people will stick up for anything. No, it's the Puritan-esque rage against any depiction of women that's pleasant to look as a bad thing that's a silly attitude that needs to die.

 

[michiehoward]

Sexists and sexism, are one of those ism's and ist's that really need to go away. They have served their purposes.

Your not a sexist if you demean or belittle women because they are women.
Your just a fucking douchebag asshole who should fuck right off.

Why give them a snazzy title anymore.

Also up for disposal in the historical trash heap, chauvinist. Your not a chauvinist your a... well see above.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

I'm going to assume that your anger comes from personal experience. I've known a lot of women on the internet and they have gotten along just fine without anyone's help, or without going on a rampage about it. The issue isn't trivial, of course, but to throw a conniption fit seems to be just as bad as disregarding the issue out of hand. How is anything helped by going onto a forum and hurling insults and generalizations at an entire gender? How is what you're doing somehow better, or from a higher moral standpoint, than what you claim men are doing to the female gender? How are you convincing them that they've done wrong, and not perpetuating a stereotype they can use against you?

 

[Mikkaddo]

TLDR: Do not defend someone because they are a woman, defend someone because they are a person.

From reading one post how can you tell the difference? Or even one situation. Ive stood up for bronies despite not being one, and ive stood up for others who people want some reason to abuse. I dont see why woman would be special in this regard, is a healthy dislike for people who spread social inequality discouraged now? Am i meant to view such situations with apathy? What stance should i take, ignore the sexist and imply my agreement with him? Or actively challenge him, not instead of the woman, but alongside her?

don't you see? the only true equality is to stand back and let the abused fight for themselves. Obviously refusing aid to someone who is being singled out is the ONLY WAY to truly treat them as an equal rather than protecting someone who could very well be having trouble with their situation.

 

[Faladorian]

If you're mean to women, you're a horrible sexist.
If you're nice to women, you're a horrible sexist.
If you're indifferent towards women, you're a horrible sexist.

Yep. That seems fair.

This, ladies and gentlemen (or maybe just gentlemen... or maybe "people" if gender is inherently sexist) is feminism in a nutshell.

A wonderful excuse for people to complain about random shit and hope desperately to be taken seriously. Screw off.

 

[ServebotFrank]

White Knights suck there I said it. The concept of helping someone out (Regardless of sex) and being a nice guy should be expected from everyone. White Knights however will jump in to protect women just because they're women no matter if they're right or not.

Helping someone is fine and being on their side in everything is fine too. Helping a girl in hopes you will get a girlfriend and therefore sex is stupid however. It's mostly employed by socially awkward nerds I've seen.

 

[Supah]

TITS OR GTFO, while still existent, is not as bad as it used to be.

Chivalry is a sign of respect, I don't see what's wrong with showing respect.

 

[Mr.Pandah]

White Knights are dumb. People who hate White Knights are dumb. I used to be a hater, but who honestly cares anymore?

 

[Angus565]

This seems pretty appropriate for this thread. You can still be chivalrous (chivalrous?)
and not be annoying, it's all about that happy middle ground just be nice to people who aren't dicks

 

[honestdiscussioner]

White Knights suck there I said it. The concept of helping someone out (Regardless of sex) and being a nice guy should be expected from everyone. White Knights however will jump in to protect women just because they're women no matter if they're right or not.

Helping someone is fine and being on their side in everything is fine too. Helping a girl in hopes you will get a girlfriend and therefore sex is stupid however. It's mostly employed by socially awkward nerds I've seen.

You know that isn't how the OP necessarily defined it, right?

 

[ReinWeisserRitter]

On the Internet, women are treated like shit.

This is a fact of our current existence, and if you refuse to accept it, leave the thread now.

"Believe things are the way I say they are, and if you don't, leave the thread now."

I do believe I'll be going, then.

 

[quantumsoul]

I don't so much defend women as get annoyed at the guys being assholes to them. I just want them to just shut up. On top of that, if their behavior keeps women from participating in gaming and the internet that pisses me off even more. I like having women around. They're fun

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

White Knight Syndrome

n. A personality characteristic found in most males that lead them to:
1. rush to the aid of any female they see who appears in any form of distress.
2. Become attracted to said damsel in distress.
3. Follow the dying code of chivalry and generally act like a nice guy.

Sufferers of WKS may, at a later date, begin to exhibit signs of a Little ***** complex in which they question why nice guys finish last and begin to wonder if all women are self-destructive by nature for being with the dicks WKS sufferers perceive their chosen partners to be. If the sufferer does not grow up, WKS and the Little ***** complex may contribute to misanthropy and cause the sufferer to be an unlikeable ****.

I may have went a little overboard.

OT: Agree entirely with you on this one, mate. I am sick of White Knights and people who ask why nice guys finish last/crying into their pillow with 7 fapkins around them. It's just a childish attitude though, people usually grow out of it.

There is nothing wrong with a man telling someone they're out of line for treating a woman badly, just as there is nothing wrong with a woman telling someone they're out of line of treating a man badly. People should defend people when they're being treated unfairly. Period.

That's the issue though, isn't it? These White Knights aren't defending women because they're being treated unfairly, they're defending them because they're women. Like you said, there isn't anyone fighting the "get back to the kitchen" jokes but there are 50 guys who made a long-winded post about how SkullGirls is sexist and then finished it with "Hey, while we're at it, let's just take away women's voting rights," they completely overreacted because it was women being portrayed in a sexual way, not because they think people shouldn't be portrayed in a sexual way.

There isn't anything wrong with men defending women, but that isn't what White Knights do and it isn't the problem being addressed in the OP. I think a lot of people, not specifically you, have missed that here.

 

[honestdiscussioner]

I will respectfully disagree with the OP.

While certainly there are many instances where women are treated poorly on the internet, the idea that the "white knight" is the worst of it is philosophically problematic. As I illustrated in [a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpZ7-upLkrY"]this[/a] video to popular Youtuber HealthyAddict (sub to her if you like awesome), the problem with blaming or condemning benevolent sexism is that it is impossible to differentiate on a regular basis between those that help women because of belief that women are inherently too weak to defend themselves, which would be harmful, or whether they are doing it out of a sense of social justice not based upon the victim's gender, or even if it is part of an attempt to impress a potential mate, which is not sexist as it could equally be applied to any other gender situation (male impressing another male due to attraction, female to female, male to female, female to male).

To demonize a "white knight" the way the OP does is to attack a significant portion of well-meaning individuals of whom legitimately wish to defend a person based solely off of an objective deduction that the person is being treated unfairly, which could cause people to be less willing to help out those who need it out of fear that they will be misconstrued as sexist.

The idea that rushing to someone's defense on the internet is depriving them of their humanity is dogmatic and demonstrably false. No one gets by on their own, be they men, women, Chuck Norris, or even Kyle Katarn. When you are a lone person being faced down by ten other people screaming obscenities at you, your gender no longer matters; you will require assistance if you are to be anything other than overwhelmed and drowned out.

The OP's point is not entirely without merit. It is wrong to rush to the defense of a woman simply because she's a woman. However little of what the OP says allows for that nuanced interpretation and if they wish to communicate one they must be far more specific. "Women" are not by definition "able to defend themselves" any more than they are by definition "able to somersault". Certainly some can, but it is not innate to who they are, same as a man. Some are able to defend themselves in certain situations, and others can't in that same situation . . but perhaps in others they would be capable while the group that was capable in the first scenario was less so. The point here is that each situation must be judged by its own merit. What is ironic is that unless the OP is willing to admit there are no acceptable situations in which a person can be defended on the internet, they have displayed a great degree of sexism in asserting that women specifically should not be defended.

Overall I feel the OP is overgeneralizing in a dogmatic and simply unrealistic manner that does not allow for any nuance on a topic that demands a great deal of it.

 

[Kriptonite]

That's all very well and on the whole I agree with the fact that women can be treated poorly on the internet when they are singled out as women, because they are women but on the occasion that a female storms onto the internet and says "LOOOK! I am a woman!!11" then they are going to get attention and they know it. At that point they have no right to complain.

Male is not normal, female abnormal. Male is not the default, female the exception. Asserting that you are a woman, or saying something that makes it obvious you are a woman is not "showing off" or "attention whoring" or "flaunting" your gender. It is being who you are.

Men do not get accused of attention seeking for saying "I'm a bloke" or talking in a way that makes it obvious that they are male. I'm sick of this double standard.

I'd like to point out that I, personally, have never seen a 'bloke' as you've put it, irrelevantly announce his...bloke-ness on the internet, whereas I have seen females do it numerous times. You cannot 'show off' being a female any more than you can 'show off' disliking apples. It's just who you are. However, as sad as it is in 2011, I have seen women announce that they are women completely out of the blue in, what I believe are, attempts at grabbing attention. Now, I'm not saying that every female that states she is female on the internet is, um, 'attention whoring'[footnote]Classy.[/footnote]. That would be absurd. My point is this, unless it's relevant to the current topic, is there a reason to announce your gender on the internet? Does it make a difference?
I agree, to an extent, with OP here. Doing nice things for other people because they are people is how I feel, and have felt for a while. It's 2011, people should stop getting hung up on the gender thing so much. The worst is when, an example from my life, you hold a door for a woman and she gets upset. I cannot simply stand people like that. I was holding the door because it's a nice thing to do, not because you have breasts.

I kind of got off track there a bit. Point is, I don't really see the double standard. Your gender, unless relevant, does not matter on the internet. People are people first: not male or female, black or white, catholic or jewish: we are all people.

I hate the idea people think just because a guy is defending a girl, he's a 'white knight' or he wants to get into her pants or whatever people might say. Maybe some guys are like that, but I'd like to think men would defend another man if getting abused on the Internet.
It's not exactly taking away our right to fight for ourselves is it?Someone sticking up for is always a nice feeling though, but that's regardless of gender.

Thank you for being intelligent, I'm glad there are people like you in the world. You know, rational thinking people. It gives me hope. <--Actually not being sarcastic.