Whore of the Orient Title Deemed Racist by City Councilor

[clippen05]

My borderline racist Mom always used the term oriental, not in a negative way just in the place of Asian when describing someone; I didn't know that it was as offensive as the n-word... guess I was wrong.

 

[Dark Knifer]

Its Australia so I guess not many are that suprised

As an Australian, I have no idea about this word.

I'd have to see this game for myself to see if its bad usage. In the right context these words can make perfect storytelling sense.

 

[BeeGeenie]

This is stupid. Orient literally means East.

Although "Asian" is certainly a less Eurocentric way of putting it, there's absolutely nothing offensive about being "from the east" (Oriental).

 

[Zhukov]

Is this a widely held view, or is this chap just being a prat?

So... since the video game is talking about a person, it is technically racist. Assuming that the prostitute in question is of some sort of Asian decent - Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, or some other nation/culture in that area that I have failed to list.

Oh, it isn't referring to a person.

"Whore of the Orient" was an old name for the city of Shanghai. It was a centre for the drug trade, prostitution and other such vices. It was also sometimes called, rather more flatteringly, "The Paris of the East".

As I understand, the player character is a detective of some kind working in Shanghai in the 20s or thereabouts.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

I hate these pseudo-intellectual white teenagers who think that just because they say a word isn't offensive that just makes it so. Hey you dumb jerks, referring to "the orient" is a way to otherize Asia and is totally ethnocentric. It glorifies a time period when Asia was under the boot of imperialism by trying to normalize their racist, imperialist vernacular. If you casually use the words orient or oriental, guess what, you act ignorant and are definitely racist. To Asians who don't get offended: don't apologize for these racist assholes, they don't need your permission to act like morons.

Well shit. There's 16 Asian restaurants in this city which I apparently can't mention by name without being a racist asshole.

Considering how casually I hear the word used by people of all nationalities, and the sheer portion of people in this thread who hadn't the slightest clue that it was in any way consider a racist term I don't know how fair it is to say that people using it are ignorant and saying it out of racist motivations.

Seriously, I'd love for society to get to a state where the intent behind the words means more than the words themselves. I have heard people say things with far more vitriol and hurtfulness without a single swear in them. Taking offense from a specific word despite the tone or intent of what's being said just seems so pointless if you can tell by the context whether or not they meant it to be derogatory. Not to mention the fluidity with which words can go from completely innocuous to being offensive. I'm not sure how legitimate this is, but I was told earlier today that a lot of people are now considering lesbian to be a homophobic term

 

[Albino Boo]

The woman needs to educate herself a little more. Orient is not insulting or offensive. It's simply a modernization of Dioecesis Orientis. This is the name of the eastern provinces of the Roman Empire. Over the years it eventually became a blanket term for the East as used by western cultures. To even pretend that it has the same connotation as the word "******" is ridiculous. *****, gook, Charlie, Chinaman, lemon, Bodie, nip, nipper, yolkie, etc. But Orient? Grow up.

I've never heard of anyone getting their panties in a wad over the use of the term.

~signed, some random person living in Taiwan

Perhaps you ought to educate yourself a little. The N word is itself is an anglicisation(sic)of the latin(sic) word for black via Spanish and Portuguese. I wouldn't suggest calling a black person that and then trying to say its OK because its latin(sic). The origin of the word is somewhat unimportant to the current pejorative, or otherwise, use of the word.

And the word, which indeed comes from the Latin "niger" was very much originally used to describe a physical trait and from the beginning, was meant to be discriminatory in it's very nature. Orientis is the name of the guy who ruled over the Dioecesis. It's a locational noun only and does not describe a people group. It was never intended to be discriminatory and is not to this day. I'm not Asian and I live in what's considered the Orient. My wife is Asian and she's in the Orient. So, why on earth would it be derogatory towards Asians when both Asians and non-Asians are part of the same reference group?

That's why some people consider "African-america" less offensive than "darkie" because one is a locational noun dependent on origins and placement and the other is drawing attention to a physical trait as the differing point. That's a major difference and why my point is valid. Trying to compare words that were used originally to be a disparaging declaration of the differences in physical traits, with those that were used in the same way the word America is taken from the name Amerigo Vespucci, just doesn't hold water.

When you are in hole stop digging. The etymology of the word is not the problem, the issues is whether the word is pejorative or not. Both words have latin origins and in the Roman republic and in the early empire oriental was most definitely a pejorative term. Personally, I don't think the word oriental is used pejoratively today but has been used so in the last 100 years or so. The fact of its latin origins are of no relevance to that debate.

 

[Psychobabble]

I wonder if he wants to ban the Oriental Express, Oriental Trading Company, Daylight Robbery On The Orient Express, Oriental Bank of Commerce, Oriental Insurance, or the hundreds and hundreds of other international uses of the term "Orient" and "Oriental" that are not offensive or considered offensive by millions of people every day.

If not then they should be changed anyway. In these dark days of horrible oppression we all must do our utmost to accommodate the downtrodden and make every attempt we can at social change to provide a kinder more gentle society for everyone. If that means a loss of our right to freedom of personal self expression I feel it's a small price to pay.

 

[6_Qubed]

...Question: I was under the impression that the word "oriental" was at least frowned upon when used in reference to Asian folk, but referring to the general region from which they hail as "The Orient" was fine.

Is this wrong?

 

[sirjeffofshort]

Huh, you learn something new every day.

Although I don't agree with someone trying to file injunctions etc. because the name of an artistic piece is offensive or otherwise crude, I have no problem with anyone stating their case and educating people in an effort to make the change...

But the name of the game should probably change anyways, because it's really not a great title.

 

[Micalas]

As far as I know, it's all slightly offensive if you call someone Oriental. Never have I heard of refering to East Asia as "the Orient" being offensive. I actually kind of see it as a romantic, respectful designation.

HIstoricity, while im all for it, would not work. "Whore of oriental" historical titling counterpart would be if Django Unchained would have been called "****** gunslinger". im sure you can see why they didnt choose that.

There was probably a blaxploitation film with that title.

 

[Anthadlas Babyeater]

So why is an Australian councillor complaining about the usage of a term that Australia finds offensive when the game is based in China and nobody from that region seems to find it offensive?

Can we please just stop selling games in Australia? It's obvious that their government seems to think they are spawned by Satan

 

[Quellist]

Seems a bit much, if someone described me as an Occidental i might be a little bemused but hardly offended. It doesnt seem to have racist intent behind it...

 

[BlackFlyme]

Back in 2009 the state of New York actually banned the word oriental on government forms and documents. The state of Washington did a similar ban in 2002.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/09/law-bans-use-of-oriental-in-state-documents/

This struck me as a surprise, as I had never heard the word used in a derogatory way once in my life.

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

I asked a couple of my Asian-Australian friends (well Australians whose parents were Asian) about it today and their exact response was "who cares as long as it's a good game".

 

[NeedsaBetterName22]

So is Ms. Lo going to call out Edward Said for his brilliant book, Orientalism (i.e. the thing she stole all her arguments from)?

 

[Fox12]

Hmm, I've never heard of the term "oriental" being offensive, jut outdated. I don't know much about this game, so I suppose whether it's offensive is dependent on the subject matter. For instance, the term "negro" is used in To Kill a Mockingbird and Huckleberry Finn, but these books aren't racist. They're about racism, which is entirely different. I'll withhold judgement, but I don't see why orient is the offensive word in question.

 

[Proverbial Jon]

I am not from the country in question so I have no authority to say whether or not this word is offensive. That said, whenever I hear the word it conjures images in my mind of traditional old-time China and/or similar Asian countries. It hardly paints a negative picture.

I guess the negativity comes with historical implications the word might carry for the people of China. But then again, a word is surely only offensive when said with intent to cause pain/suffering. I doubt anyone uses oriental these days as their go-to racial slur. I can probably imagine much worse.

Although I don't agree with someone trying to file injunctions etc. because the name of an artistic piece is offensive or otherwise crude, I have no problem with anyone stating their case and educating people in an effort to make the change...

But the name of the game should probably change anyways, because it's really not a great title.

So... you don't think the name should be changed because someone finds it offensive. But you do think it should be changed because you don't think it's a good name.

Keep rockin' those double standards.

 

[white_wolf]

Ok let's get this straight he's not fine with saying Orient but whore he's totally good with? How exactly is that racist? Should we also classify Asian racist too because that's the same thing. I get that some older people might be offened and if they're that offened to sue then the 1% can make that case. I agree its dumb to lump several different countries into the bag of Asia never really understood that one, no other country has this issue over here we're called the West but that's not the samething.

I think this councilman must be up for an election and needs something to take back to his district and go look guys I'm so great! I'm fighting for the PCman really PC is all about people not talking because someone somewhere might be offend. It's just as dumb as the whole Red Skin team having to change their name because Native Americans might be offend yet none are. Some tribes are even coming up in defense of the name knowing that the team made the name to honor not offend them. If the many tribes we have did take issue they could take them to court themselves they don't need a bunch of PCmongers doing it for them. In this case if multiple countries hate the game having the term orient on the box then they can change the title for its country or not allow the makers to sell it, its a country by country issue not something one councilman can say goes for every Eastern nation.