Why are people against killing whales?

Nivag the Owl

Owl of Hyper-Intelligence
Oct 29, 2008
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gumba killer said:
Nivag the Owl said:
Wait... People eat whale? I was genuinely unaware of that. In fact, I've never even pondered the meaning of whale hunting. But anyways, I would much rather they weren't hunted... In the same way that I would much rather cows weren't hunted. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to eat them.
People don't hunt cows. They have ranches where thousands of cows are raised for that purpose. Some small business owners get them from markets where people sell cows like my dad who raises cows to sell for there meat.
I'm aware that they're not actually hunted, I just thought it was kinda funny. :)
 

Daverson

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Nov 17, 2009
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canadamus_prime said:
I already said I stand corrected on that. But as for that other stuff you threw at me, I'd like to remind you that human beings are not the only sentient life forms on this planet and I'd appreciate you not misusing words. Also I severely question just exactly how you or indeed anyone knows exactly what say, the Elephant you mentioned, is thinking or feeling. Or the dog, how the hell do you, or anyone, know that it thinks it's seeing another dog when it looks at it's reflection? All anyone has to go on is observations of their behaviour, observations which are made from a purely human point of view. So in other words, we're interpreting their behaviour from a purely human stand point which is quite likely getting it completely wrong. If I were to hazard a guess, although I've never actually seen a dog look at it's reflection in a mirror, I would think since dogs interpret the world primarily through their noses, it would conclude that since it can't smell the reflection, it isn't real. I did see my dog (my she rest in peace) react to a dog on TV once and the result was much like that, she went up to the screen, sniffed at it a bit, I assume she concluded that the image wasn't real and went back to what she was doing before.
1. I've never stated that humans are the only sentient species. I merely stated they were a sentient species. I'd appreciate it if you didn't misquote me.

2. If you mark a location on an elephant somehow (ie, paint a cross on it's head somewhere), then show it it's reflection, it will intuitively move it's trunk to the relative position on itself, realizing the image is virtual. A less intelligent animal (I only really used dogs as an example, like you said, they're not sight oriented animals, so something like a hawk would be a better aide in this regard) will always treat it's reflection as if it were a different animal until it realizes it isn't (though this doesn't necessarily mean it will realize it is a reflection of itself). If you want a good example of this behaviour, look at how a Budgie interacts with a mirror.

3. Stating you can't understand animals because of "a human point of view" is... well... to be honest, that's kind of just dumb. Almost every animal uses body language, and a lot use vocalization, instinctively (for example, chimpanzees use very similar facial expressions to humans), they will also learn other forms of body language from their surroundings. Observing animals and working out what they're thinking isn't just guess work, there's an exact science in it.
 

The Lizard of Odd

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Jun 23, 2009
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fenrizz said:
Dear Sir, please let me enlighten you on our glorious whale hunting traditions here in Norway (and Iceland).

I'll quote Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling] here, feel free to check it out.

Minke whales are the only legally hunted species. Catches have fluctuated between 487 animals in 2000 to 592 in 2007. The catch is made solely from the Northeast Atlantic minke whale population, which is estimated at 102,000.
<-- is a miss

This is something you need to clarify in the TITLE or very first sentence of your forum post. Whales, as a general use of the term, are endangered, as there are more species of whales which are close to extinction than not. Therefore EVERYONE is going to automatically assume you mean whales in general, myself included.
No, personally I don't have a problem with a country that hunts an animal which is in plentiful supply. Humans are meant to hunt and eat meat. The problem is that every other person out there who screams out against your country killing whales is making the exact same assumption that this forum is making, that you are hunting any ol whale you come across, some of which could be endangered, which is obviously a bad thing. Those that know better and still scream are just crazy extremists...the sort of people who try and force their vegetarian beliefs on everyone else, which I DO have a problem with, even though I don't eat much meat.

I think one of the major problems is that whales have garnered a zealot following...it's one of those things that people use as a focal point in environmental issues as a whole. Granted it was necessary back before there was much concern for the environment or its animals.
When someone feels extremely strong about an issue, and over and over again find themselves faced with people who don't care, it becomes frustrating to the point of insanity. I seriously think zealots/extremists, no matter what their beliefs are, are people who were just driven to insanity from frustration. They are people who have no sense of humor and who don't understand that they can't, and SHOULDN'T, change the world entirely on their own to match their views, no matter how right they think they are.
When I get to the point of feeling frustrated with someone because they are opposed to or don't care about something I believe in, I just have to shrug, laugh about it and walk away. It's hard to do, but I was taught how and am very thankful for that. lol

So, you probably just have to deal with it for now. Whenever you meet someone who speaks about it angrily to you, point out what you told me and make sure they know endangered species aren't on the list. It makes a big difference.
 

DarkSpectre

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Jan 25, 2010
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For the love all good scientific reasoning whales are not endangered! Whales cannot be endangered. Only species can be endangered. Whales are not a species. That is like saying primates are endangered because the Mountain gorillas are endangered. Which would be completely erroneous. Whole families cannot be endangered. Please for the love of sane reasoned thought stop talking about whales as a group. It is meaningless. Certain species are endangered and we should try to protect them because their death's could imbalance the status quo and currently the status quo is favorable to us.
 

fenrizz

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Feb 7, 2009
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The Lizard of Odd said:
fenrizz said:
Dear Sir, please let me enlighten you on our glorious whale hunting traditions here in Norway (and Iceland).

I'll quote Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling] here, feel free to check it out.

Minke whales are the only legally hunted species. Catches have fluctuated between 487 animals in 2000 to 592 in 2007. The catch is made solely from the Northeast Atlantic minke whale population, which is estimated at 102,000.
<-- is a miss

This is something you need to clarify in the TITLE or very first sentence of your forum post. Whales, as a general use of the term, are endangered, as there are more species of whales which are close to extinction than not. Therefore EVERYONE is going to automatically assume you mean whales in general, myself included.
No, personally I don't have a problem with a country that hunts an animal which is in plentiful supply. Humans are meant to hunt and eat meat. The problem is that every other person out there who screams out against your country killing whales is making the exact same assumption that this forum is making, that you are hunting any ol whale you come across, some of which could be endangered, which is obviously a bad thing. Those that know better and still scream are just crazy extremists...the sort of people who try and force their vegetarian beliefs on everyone else, which I DO have a problem with, even though I don't eat much meat.

I think one of the major problems is that whales have garnered a zealot following...it's one of those things that people use as a focal point in environmental issues as a whole. Granted it was necessary back before there was much concern for the environment or its animals.
When someone feels extremely strong about an issue, and over and over again find themselves faced with people who don't care, it becomes frustrating to the point of insanity. I seriously think zealots/extremists, no matter what their beliefs are, are people who were just driven to insanity from frustration. They are people who have no sense of humor and who don't understand that they can't, and SHOULDN'T, change the world entirely on their own to match their views, no matter how right they think they are.
When I get to the point of feeling frustrated with someone because they are opposed to or don't care about something I believe in, I just have to shrug, laugh about it and walk away. It's hard to do, but I was taught how and am very thankful for that. lol

So, you probably just have to deal with it for now. Whenever you meet someone who speaks about it angrily to you, point out what you told me and make sure they know endangered species aren't on the list. It makes a big difference.
Thank you for an excellent post.

You make good points about the extremists in, well, just about any area, be it enviromentalism or vegans.
As you said, the only thing we can do is point out factual error, and hope that if we respect their views they will in turn respect ours.

Also, sorry for the short reply.
I am just not any good at making long ones.
 

ArcWinter

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May 9, 2009
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Sirch.Cajnos said:
ArcWinter said:
See, there is one thing that humans CAN NOT KILL OFF, or else we will all die.

That thing is PLANTS. Screw animals, they'd all die anyway. Being against killing "insert animal here" doesn't make any sense, because we can survive without them.

Oh yeah, and we'd need insects to keep the plants alive. So insects and plants. Don't kill em. Animals? Go ahead.
do you realize how stupid this statement is? every animal has a very specific and important place in an every growing food chain that helps keep the planet from being overrun by a specific kind of animal, you need plants to keep herbivore's alive, bugs to keep the plants alive, birds and other insectivores to keep the insect population from exploding, small predators to keep the bird population from eating all the insects, larger predators to keep the smaller predator population down, it's a delicate balance that goes from the ants to elephants in places that both animals are present, and in the ocean the chain is even more fragile, without whales (finally OT) the krill population would explode, then everything the krill eat would die out. People who are against hunting animals are trying to preserve this cycle, and people like you are why the people against over hunting are necessary
Yeah, yeah, sure, but none of the other animals are necessary. In a couple years we'll be able to grow meat from petri dishes, and that's food covered. We'd need plants for oxygen, so we'd not kill them, and for water, we'd have algae purify it. So food, water, air. That's all we need.

And I phrased that whole thing very badly. I didn't mean to imply "Kill all the whales now!" I meant to say that everything goes extinct eventually so there's no need to get all in a fuss just cause the animal dying is majestic and pretty.

I'm against hunting completely anyway. For sport is stupid and we don't need to hunt to eat because... uh... y'know, artificial meat. Also, for all intents and purposes, I'm a pacifist.
 

Sirch.Cajnos

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Oct 27, 2009
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ArcWinter said:
Sirch.Cajnos said:
ArcWinter said:
See, there is one thing that humans CAN NOT KILL OFF, or else we will all die.

That thing is PLANTS. Screw animals, they'd all die anyway. Being against killing "insert animal here" doesn't make any sense, because we can survive without them.

Oh yeah, and we'd need insects to keep the plants alive. So insects and plants. Don't kill em. Animals? Go ahead.
do you realize how stupid this statement is? every animal has a very specific and important place in an every growing food chain that helps keep the planet from being overrun by a specific kind of animal, you need plants to keep herbivore's alive, bugs to keep the plants alive, birds and other insectivores to keep the insect population from exploding, small predators to keep the bird population from eating all the insects, larger predators to keep the smaller predator population down, it's a delicate balance that goes from the ants to elephants in places that both animals are present, and in the ocean the chain is even more fragile, without whales (finally OT) the krill population would explode, then everything the krill eat would die out. People who are against hunting animals are trying to preserve this cycle, and people like you are why the people against over hunting are necessary
Yeah, yeah, sure, but none of the other animals are necessary. In a couple years we'll be able to grow meat from petri dishes, and that's food covered. We'd need plants for oxygen, so we'd not kill them, and for water, we'd have algae purify it. So food, water, air. That's all we need.

And I phrased that whole thing very badly. I didn't mean to imply "Kill all the whales now!" I meant to say that everything goes extinct eventually so there's no need to get all in a fuss just cause the animal dying is majestic and pretty.

I'm against hunting completely anyway. For sport is stupid and we don't need to hunt to eat because... uh... y'know, artificial meat. Also, for all intents and purposes, I'm a pacifist.
your "point" is still invalid. we need all the animals, or at least one animal from each link of the food chain, to have a balanced ecology that isn't overwhelmed by one species, or type of species. Look what happens when a foreign species is introduced to an environment. The new species is adapted to a different environment, so one of two things happens: either the invasive species is overwhelmed and dies, or the native species' (whatever the plural of species is) are overwhelmed and die. EACH AND EVERY ANIMAL IS NECESSARY and the only way any of them will die out suddenly at all is because of us