Why are people making such a big deal of out of Quiet from MGS 5?

SolidState

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Fox12 said:
Well, there is an almost naked bikini sniper running around a middle eastern battlefield, which is rediculous.
The Middle East is a hot place, is it not? And snipers are not going to be right at the forefront of the frontlines, they're going to stay hidden, so they're not going to be all decked out in heavy armor or anything like that.

Even ignoring the in-universe explanation for this, it's still not as "ridiculous" as everyone is making out.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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SolidState said:
Fox12 said:
Well, there is an almost naked bikini sniper running around a middle eastern battlefield, which is rediculous.
The Middle East is a hot place, is it not? And snipers are not going to be right at the forefront of the frontlines, they're going to stay hidden, so they're not going to be all decked out in heavy armor or anything like that.

Even ignoring the in-universe explanation for this, it's still not as "ridiculous" as everyone is making out.
As was mentioned way earlier in this thread, the trick to staying cool in a hot, desert like environment (and technically, Afghanistan is the Far East in archaic terms or south-west Asia in modern) is to wear thin, flowing fabrics in layers all over your body. That's why pretty much all traditional garbs from desert peoples consists of various forms of robes. Also, Snipers in a desert look like this:


See, snipers are meant to be stealthy. Being stealthy means crawling long distances and staying prone for extended periods of time. If you want, you can go outside right now, find a dirt road, stone desert or gravel pit and try crawling on it in just your underwear then come back here and post pictures of how bloody your knees, elbows and belly are. Her outfit is more ridiculous then what most of its' detractors here are making it out to be, because it is entirely unsuited for both the job in which Quiet wears it and for the specific conditions of the battlefield in which she wears it.
 

Something Amyss

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SolidState said:
The Middle East is a hot place, is it not? And snipers are not going to be right at the forefront of the frontlines, they're going to stay hidden, so they're not going to be all decked out in heavy armor or anything like that.
Gethsemani mostly covered this, so I'll just make a single point. When's the last time you crawled around a desert battlefield in hundred plus degree heat in direct sunlight?

It wouldn't just be Quiet's lungs that were burned. She'd need a whole new organ to breathe through.
 

IceForce

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Gethsemani said:
As was mentioned way earlier in this thread, the trick to staying cool in a hot, desert like environment (and technically, Afghanistan is the Far East in archaic terms or south-west Asia in modern) is to wear thin, flowing fabrics in layers all over your body.
Not only that, but Afghanistan is mostly mountainous, so it also gets fucking cold there too.
 

Don Incognito

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SolidState said:
Fox12 said:
Well, there is an almost naked bikini sniper running around a middle eastern battlefield, which is rediculous.
The Middle East is a hot place, is it not? And snipers are not going to be right at the forefront of the frontlines, they're going to stay hidden, so they're not going to be all decked out in heavy armor or anything like that.

Even ignoring the in-universe explanation for this, it's still not as "ridiculous" as everyone is making out.
Actually, running around the Middle East in a bikini and tights (!) is a Very Bad Idea. Loose, low-weight, light-colored, flowing clothing, to protect against the sun, is what one would want to wear.
 

Don Incognito

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Gethsemani said:
Her outfit is more ridiculous then what most of its' detractors here are making it out to be, because it is entirely unsuited for both the job in which Quiet wears it and for the specific conditions of the battlefield in which she wears it.
It also doesn't make any sense given the burning/parasites/breath through skin thing, as I've already explained.

It fails on every single level, other than blatant fan service. Which is fine, as far as it goes, so long as they don't try to justify it with that stupid, stupid, STUPID backstory.
 

zinho73

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KayeFaye said:
Because the design is silly. Well, that's why I don't like it. It's silly. It's also not really my definition of sexy, because I like more teasing designs and I also don't think "dumb" is sexy and a sniper, or any soldier really, wearing little to no ballistic protection is dumb. Shame because other aspects of her design are quite nice, I especially like her eyes. I've always liked women with powerful, piercing eyes. Her hair is nice too.

But that's all just me and I'm not really sure if I'm the best person to speak out on the matter. Despite having been a gamer for nearly all 35 years of my life, I'm only just now dipping my toes into the gaming community and I've found myself in a political warzone and I'm not sure where I want to set up camp yet. On one hand, I'm a minority as a Lesbian woman in her 30s who *does* understand the point of having feminism in games and feel that there are those in the community who are clearly sexist assholes but on the other hand I'm quite open minded and sex positive and am tired of hearing feminists who act like men (And Lesbians. Seriously I've had feminists come down on me for being sexist because I'm sexually attracted to women. LOGICS) aren't allowed to have any sexual fantasies at all because sexual escapism is bad and only leads to objectifying women, not to mention while there are a lot of hooting sexist assholes in the community I've found more level headed guys that just want to have a good time than anything. *shrug*
Please do not let the current climate stray you from the gaming community.

Things are very unreasonable right now mainly because a lot of unreasonable people became very popular, but this will pass (I hope).

The majority of people I have known to be gamers are very nice, undiscriminating people, way ahead in our society in terms of gender equality and acceptance of the other, but internet trolls have been numerous this days, unfortunately.

In any, case, from a white, married, heterossexual, 40-something guy: I welcome you and your opinions.
 

Something Amyss

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IceForce said:
Not only that, but Afghanistan is mostly mountainous, so it also gets fucking cold there too.
Light layers are good there, too. Even today, a lot of hiking enthusiasts will recommend synthetics that wick away moisture for hiking. Not only for the sake of keeping sweat off your body, but in case of rain or falling into water. The cooling effect is preferable to continued wetness of your skin.

Or exposure.
 

BloatedGuppy

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I don't understand what everyone is arguing about.

Quiet's character design/aesthetic is clearly ludicrous. I'm not sure how anyone could defend it, unless they were playing devil's advocate or aggressively trying to rustle jimmies. It's transparent fan service with a backstory so wafer thin you could floss with it.

Metal Gear Solid is clearly a ridiculous game in which stuff like this has been commonplace since the series started. I've not been given any reason to believe this final chapter was meant to be a gritty reboot or realism-bound. I see people airlifting cows and tanks away with tiny balloons, for heavens sake. It's preposterous. The entire production has a certain Bollywood style wackiness to it. Quiet and her ludicrous backstory and "appeals to our horny thirteen year old demographic" appearance fit like a glove.

Criticizing the game for being devoid of female characters except for one climate-defying mute fetish model is hardly the stuff of "political correctness gone mad". It seems like a perfectly salient criticism to me. I'm not sure why anyone would take issue with it, save for the fact that we've got a lot of angry residents hereabouts who take issue with all criticisms of that ilk.

The game seems to have been exceptionally well received and reviewed. Even the hated Polygon appears to have given it 9 out of 10. What's the alarm here? What's the justification for shouting down this single, extremely defensible complaint? Was the game supposed to only get 10 out of 10?

What the fuck is the debate here?
 

Fox12

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SolidState said:
Fox12 said:
Well, there is an almost naked bikini sniper running around a middle eastern battlefield, which is rediculous.
The Middle East is a hot place, is it not? And snipers are not going to be right at the forefront of the frontlines, they're going to stay hidden, so they're not going to be all decked out in heavy armor or anything like that.

Even ignoring the in-universe explanation for this, it's still not as "ridiculous" as everyone is making out.
Real Snipers:

Quiet:

I was about to write a well thought out breakdown of why her character design doesn't work, and then I remembered that we're talking about a mute bikini clad stripper that breathes through photosynthesis. Of course this is ridiculous, and stupid. What I can't understand is how on earth people seek to rationally defend it. At least the people who admit that they just want to spank off are being honest. That's basically why Kojima put her in there, then started talking about how he wanted to see people cosplay her. I'm not even insulting the phantom pain as a whole, I just think the whole thing is completely ludicrous. I thought we all understood that. What I can't wrap my head around is why on earth Kojima's fans treat him like some kind of arteur.
 

Metalix Knightmare

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MarsAtlas said:
Metalix Knightmare said:
What on Earth makes you consider Quiet's design crap and what makes it out of place? This is a series with an S&M psychic hanging out with a woman with a rather gratuitous amount of cleavage, and a dude with no shirt in freaking ALASKA! (As added points, the lady fought you outside, and the shirtless dude fought you in a giant freezer.)
If you'll recall, Kojima never made bullshit excuses to try and justify the inclusion of nudity and sexuality in MGS1, nor any other MGS title. He simply let it be and you either got used to it or you didn't. Most fans (myself included) got used to it. Now that he's trying to justify the most blatantly fanservicey character in the entire franchise (the camera never obsessed with anybody's curves in MGS1 like it does with Quiet in MGSV, for starters) with the lamest excuse that not ony can anybody with critical thinking skills can see through but also contradicts lore. You don't even need critical thinking skills, Kojima admitted it himself that she was designed very much with selling stuff in mind. Thats not artistic integrity and its certainly not how you design a good character. Aside from that she's not even wearing appropriate underwear. She's got a makeshift g-string and a makeshift bra. People fighting in the nude or in their underwear is actually a thing that has occurred throughout history, and people to this day hunt in their underwear or just plain nude. If they wear underwear, its actual underwear and not the literal bare minimum they can have on without getting slapped with an AO rating dying from arbitrarily-defined asphyxiation that is neither even trying to be consistent with lore regarding people who photosynthesize, let alone answering the question of how she manages to survive for the half of the day where there is no natural lighting. Even the game itself isn't internally consistent regarding the outfit and her physical needs in that it lets you pick outfits that have her wear more clothing. Since her canonical outfit suited for her needs is basically nudity it does in fact break lore by having her wear more without keeling over. The game itself doesn't even recognize her outfit, which is described as nudity within the game, as doing what she needs to do to survive. Its nudity for shameless pandering and it doesn't even look halfway decent compared to the likes of previous characters showing off their cleavage. For example, Eva has a motorcyclist motif going on. Quiet has... I really don't have anything. Its been a year and I haven't really seen any sort of motif within it. It really just does seem like he just slapped together as little as possible to avoid an AO rating. Her bra is so thin it doesn't even look like it can hold her cleavage without ripping, and it is so thin that they'd most certainly be popping out of the bra every time she moved as a brisk pace. This is all without even breaking out the "o" word.
First off, please use the enter key every now and then. I take one look at that mess of text I go cross eyed.

Secondly,

Fox12 said:
Metalix Knightmare said:
Zhukov said:
Coreless said:
Zhukov said:
What if people want sexy images in their game and not outside it? What is wrong with putting sexy images in a game as opposed to in a comic, tv show, movie or even live theater? You say you don't need it and that is fine, but what does "need" have to do with the entertainment medium? Its all about what people "want" and are willing to pay for, clearly there is a want for this kind of stuff...So who gets to have their interests catered to?
And? I'm not denying that there's a demand for it. I'm saying it's a shit design.

If I say, "The Twilight movies were crap", you replying, "But there's a demand for them", doesn't make them any less crap.

Metalix Knightmare said:
Zhukov said:
Well isn't that rather selfish of you? What about those who like and want that stuff in there? Do my lesbian neighbors not get a vote on this? Cause I can tell you right now, they REALLY like Quiet's look.
Selfish? Not quite. It's self-centered. Which is kind of inevitable when presenting one's own opinion.

As for those people who like shitty character designs and want more of them, sure they get a vote. They can buy the game like anyone else. Do you think your lesbian neighbours will enjoy Quiet's look any less because some dude their neighbour ran into on the internet thought the design was bad and out of place?
What on Earth makes you consider Quiet's design crap and what makes it out of place? This is a series with an S&M psychic hanging out with a woman with a rather gratuitous amount of cleavage, and a dude with no shirt in freaking ALASKA! (As added points, the lady fought you outside, and the shirtless dude fought you in a giant freezer.)

Seriously dude, you guys are starting to come off more and more like you're body shaming more than anything else. You're also starting to give off the vibe that none of you even played this series until Quiet's design drew your ire.
Well, there is an almost naked bikini sniper running around a middle eastern battlefield, which is rediculous. And the justification is apparently that she breathes through her skin due to severe burning, despite the fact that we dont see said burns. It's almost as if they didn't want her horribly burned skin to ruin her sex appeal, so they made her look like a brizilian bikini model instead. There are just so many layers to the awful.

As for the other characters, you win. Their designs are also incredibly stupid. But this thread isn't about them, it's about quiet.
Quiet in a bikini is no more ridiculous than the gigantic mechs, cyborg ninja, fiery zombie controlled by a Jr Psychic, and this...


With all the crazy crap in this game, why people are getting so bent out of shape by a bikini clad sniper is beyond me.
 

Metalix Knightmare

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inu-kun said:
Said it already in another thread, she is optional, if you don't like her, don't play with her, or even don't let her to join DD. you won't miss anything world shattering. It's pretty annoying that people complain about something that they aren't forced to do, next thing people will complain that you can be evil in Infamous.
Might not be too far behind. We've already got a certain con artist who will not be named who got upset over the fact you can hurt female NPCs in some games.

Not to mention, after you recruit Quiet and bring her back to base, doesn't she automatically unlock a more conservative outfit for use?
 

Erttheking

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inu-kun said:
Said it already in another thread, she is optional, if you don't like her, don't play with her, or even don't let her to join DD. you won't miss anything world shattering. It's pretty annoying that people complain about something that they aren't forced to do, next thing people will complain that you can be evil in Infamous.
Why is it that you're only allowed to complain about things you're forced to do? No one forced anyone to buy horse armor in Oblivion, yet people still criticized it.

Can we stop acting like choice is some sort of unbreakable shield against criticism?
 

Fox12

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Metalix Knightmare said:
Granted, but as I've said, I consider most of the design mentioned to be really bad. So one more bad design in a sea of bad designs doesn't really surprise me. I don't consider that a very strong defense, though.

Now, I could probably overlook that, given how ridiculous the series is. There's a certain refuge in audacity. I mean, I wasn't offended by South Park or Saints Row 3, and those were much, much worse. For the most part Metal Gear falls into the same category of absurdity for me.

The problem is that Kojima wants to have his cake and eat it too. He has silly scenes like that included alongside rape, torture, and genocide, and then expects you to actually take him seriously. You can't have such jarring tonal shifts in a series like that, and certainly not within the same title. Is he trying to make a quirky action game, or a dark reflection on the horrors of war? The truth is that he thinks he can have both, and the results are a mess. That's the REAL reason Quiet doesn't work, and that's the real reason people call out the franchise.
 

DoPo

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erttheking said:
Can we stop acting like choice is some sort of unbreakable shield against criticism?
It's also funny because the people who criticised the criticism clearly had the choice not to. They even had the choice not to pay any attention to it. And yet, here they are complaining about something optional...
 

Erttheking

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inu-kun said:
erttheking said:
inu-kun said:
Said it already in another thread, she is optional, if you don't like her, don't play with her, or even don't let her to join DD. you won't miss anything world shattering. It's pretty annoying that people complain about something that they aren't forced to do, next thing people will complain that you can be evil in Infamous.
Why is it that you're only allowed to complain about things you're forced to do? No one forced anyone to buy horse armor in Oblivion, yet people still criticized it.

Can we stop acting like choice is some sort of unbreakable shield against criticism?
Can people in the real world complain about others possibly hitting them, although they didn't? If you say yes, then you should learn about the principle of "cause and effect". If you were forced to have Quiet the complaints that the fanservice is thrust on you might could have merit, but for me it seems complaining for the sake of complaining.
I'm sorry, but you failed to address any of my points. The point of my post was that the idea that you can only complain about something when forced to take part in it is an idea that doesn't make any sense. What does cause and effect have to do with anything? DLC, No one FORCES you to buy it. Season Passes, no one FORCES you to buy them. The Xbone, no one FORCES you to buy it. Macs. No one FORCES you to buy them. Microtransactions, no one FORCES you to buy them. Yet gamers complain about those things daily and I never saw you saying "Oh stop complaining, no one FORCED you to do it" so why is this so special?

No one forced me to play as Quiet? Well no one forced you to read my comment, yet you still criticized it. See how this works? When we see something we don't like, we complain about it. I don't see how you have to be forced into something to be allowed to do so.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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inu-kun said:
Said it already in another thread, she is optional, if you don't like her, don't play with her, or even don't let her to join DD. you won't miss anything world shattering. It's pretty annoying that people complain about something that they aren't forced to do, next thing people will complain that you can be evil in Infamous.
So what happens if I don't like the aesthetic design of Quiet but want to utilize the game play mechanic that is attached to her, namely sniper support in missions? The choice to "not use her" is much less of a choice then you make it out to be, because apart from being fanservice she is also one of three major sidekick NPCs that all provide unique gameplay elements. Not that "it is optional" is an argument against design criticism to begin with.