Why are people making such a big deal of out of Quiet from MGS 5?

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Samtemdo8 said:
Did you know there are sequences in MGS3 with EVA where pressing the highlighted "R1" button in the cutscenes with EVA you see through the eyes of Snake that he is staring at EVA's Clevage and Bikini Ass.

Was that necessary for the game? Why else did Hideo Kojima added those options?
The same function is also used during the HALO jump intro, the torture scene and many other scenes in which the perspective of Snake could be interesting or important to the plot. As such, it is a mechanic used throughout the game and not just a one-off that lets the player get their T&A on when EVA is around.

Samtemdo8 said:
As to what you mean yes I get the point of EVA she uses sex to get what she wants but I assume that obviously thats something Femenist would still dislike as some male fantasy of a female spy.
You assume... poorly. Let me explain in both a meta sense and a more generalized sense:
1. In the meta and narrative sense, both Quiet and EVA are often undressed to some degree. EVA, however, is quite clearly in control of her undressing as far as the plot goes. She unzips her suit or undresses because she can use it as a tool to manipulate Snake, but she is also seen zipping up before riding off on her motorcycle or otherwise leaving Snake, which provides a subtle clue that she's trying to manipulate Snake. What this means is that as far as feminist theory goes we see that EVA has agency over her own nudity, she is in total control of when and how she chooses to undress and uses it to her own advantage. That's not to say that she's not fanservice, but it is fanservice that is also well-integrated into the larger narrative (EVA manipulating Snake for her own gains) and has an entirely different meta-narrative tone than Quiet's fanservice.

Quiet's fanservice, you see, is established in the narrative as being entirely forced upon her. She's either scantily clad or dead. Not only that, but her way of "dressing" doesn't even make sense within the justification given in-narrative. She has to wear little clothing to breath, and decides on thong and leather bra with some rubber/leather arm guard and torn stockings. This is not only shitty wear anywhere but a beach, it is incredibly shitty for a sniper. The design of Quiet is total fanservice and clashes with her intended role in the game. EVA's design was also fanservicey, but was tonally consistent with the rest of the game and suited her role in the game.

So what this means is that not only does Quiet's design feel out of place, it is also atrocious from a feminist theoretical perspective because Quiet has no choice but to reveal herself, she has to reduce herself to an object to be gawked at (not helped by her shitty choice of attire) because reasons. Where EVA has the power to appear as she wishes in the narrative, Quiet can never be anything but fanservice. Needless to say this difference is hugely important for many feminists, as it is the difference between presenting a woman as having agency versus presenting a woman as being merely submissive and reactive.

Samtemdo8 said:
And yes I did not read this whole thread because well I am not one of those people that reads 14 pages worth of walls of text in a thread forum.
Then you will have to accept that the people who follow 14 pages worth of thread tells you when you are using arguments that have already been presented and dismissed.

Samtemdo8 said:
And I established that I personally don't care that Quiet is dressed the way she is and I accept her as Fanservice.
Good for you. For me, it is one of the things that has me thinking I can hold off on the game for a bit longer. That's how shitty I think her design is.
 

Imeera

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Gethsemani said:
Samtemdo8 said:
Did you know there are sequences in MGS3 with EVA where pressing the highlighted "R1" button in the cutscenes with EVA you see through the eyes of Snake that he is staring at EVA's Clevage and Bikini Ass.

Was that necessary for the game? Why else did Hideo Kojima added those options?
The same function is also used during the HALO jump intro, the torture scene and many other scenes in which the perspective of Snake could be interesting or important to the plot. As such, it is a mechanic used throughout the game and not just a one-off that lets the player get their T&A on when EVA is around.

Samtemdo8 said:
As to what you mean yes I get the point of EVA she uses sex to get what she wants but I assume that obviously thats something Femenist would still dislike as some male fantasy of a female spy.
You assume... poorly. Let me explain in both a meta sense and a more generalized sense:
1. In the meta and narrative sense, both Quiet and EVA are often undressed to some degree. EVA, however, is quite clearly in control of her undressing as far as the plot goes. She unzips her suit or undresses because she can use it as a tool to manipulate Snake, but she is also seen zipping up before riding off on her motorcycle or otherwise leaving Snake, which provides a subtle clue that she's trying to manipulate Snake. What this means is that as far as feminist theory goes we see that EVA has agency over her own nudity, she is in total control of when and how she chooses to undress and uses it to her own advantage. That's not to say that she's not fanservice, but it is fanservice that is also well-integrated into the larger narrative (EVA manipulating Snake for her own gains) and has an entirely different meta-narrative tone than Quiet's fanservice.

Quiet's fanservice, you see, is established in the narrative as being entirely forced upon her. She's either scantily clad or dead. Not only that, but her way of "dressing" doesn't even make sense within the justification given in-narrative. She has to wear little clothing to breath, and decides on thong and leather bra with some rubber/leather arm guard and torn stockings. This is not only shitty wear anywhere but a beach, it is incredibly shitty for a sniper. The design of Quiet is total fanservice and clashes with her intended role in the game. EVA's design was also fanservicey, but was tonally consistent with the rest of the game and suited her role in the game.

So what this means is that not only does Quiet's design feel out of place, it is also atrocious from a feminist theoretical perspective because Quiet has no choice but to reveal herself, she has to reduce herself to an object to be gawked at (not helped by her shitty choice of attire) because reasons. Where EVA has the power to appear as she wishes in the narrative, Quiet can never be anything but fanservice. Needless to say this difference is hugely important for many feminists, as it is the difference between presenting a woman as having agency versus presenting a woman as being merely submissive and reactive.

Samtemdo8 said:
And yes I did not read this whole thread because well I am not one of those people that reads 14 pages worth of walls of text in a thread forum.
Then you will have to accept that the people who follow 14 pages worth of thread tells you when you are using arguments that have already been presented and dismissed.

Samtemdo8 said:
And I established that I personally don't care that Quiet is dressed the way she is and I accept her as Fanservice.
Good for you. For me, it is one of the things that has me thinking I can hold off on the game for a bit longer. That's how shitty I think her design is.
You are missing out on an incredible game because of an optional character. Just get it and don't recruit her.
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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Imeera said:
You are missing out on an incredible game because of an optional character. Just get it and don't recruit her.
I am a fan of the play then complain style. I won't let my complaints get in the way of a good game, but then I don't let a good game blind me to it's flaws. You can have your cake and complaint about it too.
 

Hudson Bennett

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Quiet's outfit IS honestly terrible, but I love her as a character and wish she and Stefanie Joosten's performance got more attention than her looks.
 

Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)

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hey guys hows it goin...

(14 pages of madness)


OT:I don't mind her sexuality but the justification they made for it is one of the dumbest excuses for fan service I have ever heard
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Imeera said:
You are missing out on an incredible game because of an optional character. Just get it and don't recruit her.
When I do get it, I fully intend to use Quiet, if only because I like the idea of finally having sniper support in a game. I said it was one of the reasons I don't get it, the others including such things as spending most my time taking care of a one year old and most of my free cash going towards getting a ton of Magic: The Gathering cards later this week when Battle for Zendikar is released.

I mean, I'm a 28 year old woman and I've been gaming for over two decades. I've poured more money into my gaming hobby than most of my male friends and I still have to accept the choice between looking at needlessly gratuitous fanservice or severely limiting my own playing of the game to avoid it. It would be one thing if MGS V was some niche (sex) game, but this is one of the biggest releases this year and indisputably the biggest stealth game of the year. It is at times like these that I don't really feel all that included in one of my biggest hobbies.
 

Zhukov

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Danbo Jambo said:
Poor ol' Jim really needs to get laid.
Dude's married y'know?

Granted, that's not exactly a guarantee, but your point still sucks.
 

Danbo Jambo

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Zhukov said:
Danbo Jambo said:
Poor ol' Jim really needs to get laid.
Dude's married y'know?

Granted, that's not exactly a guarantee, but your point still sucks.
Lol. His missus is getting it elsewhere then, coz lord knows how any bloke can be even remotely pissed off about such a thing like Jim is lol
 

Wasted

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One aspect that I hate about the gaming community is the knee-jerk reaction to put an opinion into a extreme category. In the case of disliking Quiet's fan service treatment, you are automatically a WHITE KNIGHT ANITA SARKESIAN WORSHIPING VIRGIN GAY FEMINAZI WHO WANTS TO SENSOR VIDEO GAMES! From the little I played from The Phantom Pain (I just haven't had time to play it even though I got it on release) I enjoyed it but was taken aback at how flimsy Kojima's pretext for her sexualization was.

Comparing her to Eva is silly because Eva's sexualization was integral to her development. She was a well written femme fatale who used whatever was needed to get what she wanted. In MGS4, the Beauties were nearly non-existent for the majority of the story and I personally enjoyed how their sexualization juxtaposed their horrifying backstories.

In short, you are allowed to dislike an aspect of a game and still enjoy the game as a whole.
 

Zhukov

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Danbo Jambo said:
Zhukov said:
Danbo Jambo said:
Poor ol' Jim really needs to get laid.
Dude's married y'know?

Granted, that's not exactly a guarantee, but your point still sucks.
Lol. His missus is getting it elsewhere then, coz lord knows how any bloke can be even remotely pissed off about such a thing like Jim is lol
Lol. I'm getting the distinct impression this exchange is not worth continuing lol

loL.
 

Danbo Jambo

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MarsAtlas said:
You know there's a lot of men who primarily use the head atop their shoulders rather than the head in their groin to think. I'm sure that some of those men like Quiet's design and some don't like her design.
The comment was light hearted and a bit of jest, I don't really care either way tbh, and i don't see how anyone really gives that much of a toss about the whole thing either way, but each to their own.

Jim's no doubtedly just doing his job and over dramatising a point to keep things interesting which is fair play, that's what he gets paid for.

Zhukov said:
Lol. I'm getting the distinct impression this exchange is not worth continuing lol

loL.
Rofl.