Why are people making such a big deal of out of Quiet from MGS 5?

The Lunatic

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It's a Japanese game, made by Japanese people, and goes along with Japanese sensibilities.

To apply western sensibilities to something made by people who have very little interaction with Western Culture is a very odd thing, I don't really see how anyone can expect them to not only understand a culture completely different to their own, but specifically cater to it.

I kinda wish people would respect games enough to understand them and realise they reflect the creators and try to use them as a peep-hole into other cultures rather than complain insistently that your culture isn't the same as theirs.
 

Coruptin

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Western internet culture at large is just going through a puritanical sex-negative phase right now.
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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The Lunatic said:
It's a Japanese game, made by Japanese people, and goes along with Japanese sensibilities.

To apply western sensibilities to something made by people who have very little interaction with Western Culture is a very odd thing, I don't really see how anyone can expect them to not only understand a culture completely different to their own, but specifically cater to it.

I kinda wish people would respect games enough to understand them and realise they reflect the creators and try to use them as a peep-hole into other cultures rather than complain insistently that your culture isn't the same as theirs.
That is kind of Hideo's thing. They are a Japaneses developer, but they use western tropes and archetypes strained through a Japanese mind, so you end up with like this weird combo that makes it interesting.
 

Pinkilicious

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Hardsuit said:
Paragon Fury said:
As much as I love T&A, and Quiet is fine otherwise, there are a few of rather out-of-tone or completely random scenes with Quiet where its just like....WTF?

Well lets do a comparison. Which one of these makes you feel funny?


You know, considering what a fanboy he was of BB in MGS3, they should have just done this from the beginning.
Make Ocelot be similar to Bartolomeow in One Piece, he's normally a competent, capable person, but around BB he gets juuuust a little unhinged. Until some tragic event happened in 5 that srs'd him the hell up.
Maybe they could have had something like, BB goes on a mission with a lot of support, finds the camp they were supposed to blow up is instead inhabited by civilians/refugees of some sort, Three Kings style, and Ocelot's faith in Big Boss as 'the ultimate soldier' wavers as they get killed a few at a time during the extraction, leading him to become the sarcastic handless badass we see on Shadow Moses. (if you want to make it even harsher, no conspiracies or anything, just the enemy learned ahead of time you were coming and ran away, and the refugees thought it would be safe to stay there. So not only are you there but the other guys that were heading to engage you. yeah, I love me some of that Pacific and Band of Brothers, how'd you guess?)
 

Zhukov

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Gengisgame said:
Here are the reasons

Some people believe that women should no longer be sexualised, they consider open expressions of male sexuality bad.
This idea that stopping it will make the world a better place for women.
Jealousy.
May simply not like the idea of sexy women.
BarryMcCociner said:
It's neopuritan drivel disguised as a legitimate grievance...
Coruptin said:
Western internet culture at large is just going through a puritanical sex-negative phase right now.
So for those of you pulling out the sex-negative and/or puritan cards, I have a question.

Imagine if the game had Snake continuously masturbating throughout the game, just whipping it right on out and wanking himself raw every few minutes. During gameplay, during cutscenes, anywhere and everywhere. When queried, Kojima declares that this is how Snake cleanses his bloodstream of expired nanomachines.

I'm going to assume there would be some objections from the audience. Mostly along the lines of, "WTF, why is he doing that? This is stupid and makes no sense."

Would those people objecting be sex-negative puritans?
 

stroopwafel

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Jul 16, 2013
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Zhukov said:
I'm going to assume there would be some objections from the audience. Mostly along the lines of, "WTF, why is he doing that? This is stupid and makes no sense."

Would those people objecting be sex-negative puritans?

Makes no sense as who would be the audience for this? Certainly not the 90% of men who play the game. The remaining 10% of women(at most) most definitely won't find it pleasing either. A chick wiggling her ass and flaunting her boobs would have much of the opposite effect. Also ever wondered why it are never the attractive ladies that are 'offended' by this?

You know if many women would like entertainment in which a guy is stroking his cock and bouncing his man ass more of it would be made. But guys often tend to prefer more visual oriented depictions of women that vice-versa don't trigger women that much(or atleast to a far lesser extent than men). While women often tend to gravitate more towards the relationship fantasies and being the 'chosen flower' of the rich and popular and attractive, dominant male. Ie much more the psychological and emotional foundations of attraction rather than the purely visual one. It's the reason why porn takes far less root in the female psyche(again, in general) than something like 50 shades of garbage.

It has nothing to do with 'sexism' but just the way our brain works. Trying to 'change' that will bear as much fruit as trying to prevent the sun from rising tomorrow. Evolutionary behavior simply isn't socially conditioned.
 

IceForce

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Azure23 said:
My real problem is with the way the camera is constantly ogling her, or her random helicopter yoga.
Caramel Frappe said:
Now I don't mind how she dresses. I'd prefer if she wore full on military gear because being in war- you want protection. But what gets to me is when you're in the helicopter, going on some serious mission ... Big Boss is looking like he's ready for another day of Hell. Meanwhile, in the same cockpit- Quiet is sexually posing like a hired porn star without holding back. I mean it's beyond fan service and just ecchi stuff, you couldn't help but wonder if Kojima wanked to his own creation because of these specific details.
Yeah, I agree with these guys.

I thought Miranda's ass shots in Mass Effect were bad enough, but holy moly, Quiet takes everything to a whole new (sleazy) level.

EDIT:
Zhukov said:
Imagine if the game had Snake continuously masturbating throughout the game, just whipping it right on out and wanking himself raw every few minutes. During gameplay, during cutscenes, anywhere and everywhere. When queried, Kojima declares that this is how Snake cleanses his bloodstream of expired nanomachines.
lol'd, good sir.

Kojima needs to have you on the ideas brainstorming team for the next MGS game.
 

Amaror

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Aesir23 said:
Honestly, I don't see it as a terribly big deal but I do think Kojima should have just come out with "I want a sexy girl in the game" as opposed to trying to sweep it under the rug with the whole "You'll be ashamed of yourselves" thing.

Quiet's attire doesn't bother me either since you can change it later on if you like.

The only thing I would say even remotely "bothers" me is the blatant posing plus how they almost seem to be shoving her tits and ass into the camera so often. I mean, I get it, I'm not the target audience for the game but it does make me roll my eyes a bit and I think I'd be able to take the character a lot more seriously if the posing wasn't so obvious.
The posing bothers me as well and i am a straight male, so pretty much the target audience for her character. I don't have a problem with pretty and/or revealing women in games. I like looking at pretty women. It's nice. But the camera-angles and the posing is just a bit too much. The game is basically screaming "Loooook! Booobs! Ass! Do you like me yet?!". It just feels ... pandering. The Woman is pretty, i get it game, if i want to look at her i will, you don't have to keep literally shoving it in my face.
 

stroopwafel

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Jul 16, 2013
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Amaror said:
The posing bothers me as well and i am a straight male, so pretty much the target audience for her character. I don't have a problem with pretty and/or revealing women in games. I like looking at pretty women. It's nice. But the camera-angles and the posing is just a bit too much. The game is basically screaming "Loooook! Booobs! Ass! Do you like me yet?!". It just feels ... pandering. The Woman is pretty, i get it game, if i want to look at her i will, you don't have to keep literally shoving it in my face.
Yeah, this is something you can argue but the discussion is kind of tangled up between 'sexism' and what would be appropriate for the character story wise. The former is ridiculous in my opinion but the latter you can definitely raise some valid points.

Personally I didn't have much of a problem with it as it's just such a small part of the game that gets blown up to ridiculous proportions..but whatever. :p
 

Zhukov

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stroopwafel said:
Zhukov said:
I'm going to assume there would be some objections from the audience. Mostly along the lines of, "WTF, why is he doing that? This is stupid and makes no sense."

Would those people objecting be sex-negative puritans?

Makes no sense as who would be the audience for this? Certainly not the 90% of men who play the game. The remaining 10% of women(at most) most definitely won't find it pleasing either.
Besides the point.

The game, the actual game, contains sexual content with what some people consider to be a nonsensical and shitty character design. When they point that out, other people are saying that they are being puritan and/or sex-negative.

My question is, would that same defense be employed if the sexual content was equally nonsensical and out of place but was less inclined to give the target audience a hard-on?

Personally, if Kojima had just said, "Well, I like tits and chicks in bikinis and I think my audience does too, so I put one in the game for them to wank over," I'd respect that. There's just no arguing with that. I'd still think the design was shitty, but that's just a matter of taste.
 

Erttheking

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Coruptin said:
Western internet culture at large is just going through a puritanical sex-negative phase right now.
That is the biggest oversimplification I've seen in a long time. From my experience, you can rarely summed up a widely accepted view with a single sentence. We're a wide and varied species.

Plenty of people are just tired of the sex overload and want it down to more reasonable levels. Or at the very least having it fit the story. And it looks like Quiet fails on that regard.
 

Arkliem

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Zhukov said:
Gengisgame said:
Here are the reasons

Some people believe that women should no longer be sexualised, they consider open expressions of male sexuality bad.
This idea that stopping it will make the world a better place for women.
Jealousy.
May simply not like the idea of sexy women.
BarryMcCociner said:
It's neopuritan drivel disguised as a legitimate grievance...
Coruptin said:
Western internet culture at large is just going through a puritanical sex-negative phase right now.
So for those of you pulling out the sex-negative and/or puritan cards, I have a question.

Imagine if the game had Snake continuously masturbating throughout the game, just whipping it right on out and wanking himself raw every few minutes. During gameplay, during cutscenes, anywhere and everywhere. When queried, Kojima declares that this is how Snake cleanses his bloodstream of expired nanomachines.

I'm going to assume there would be some objections from the audience. Mostly along the lines of, "WTF, why is he doing that? This is stupid and makes no sense."

Would those people objecting be sex-negative puritans?
Sounds like No More Heroes. Was great. Was how travis "recharged" his beam katana, whose power level showed on the screen as a happy worm like thing that got more flaccid as it lost charge. I'd say go for it!
 

Something Amyss

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Zhukov said:
I'm going to assume there would be some objections from the audience.
But not from me, because I would have died laughing.

erttheking said:
Plenty of people are just tired of the sex overload and want it down to more reasonable levels. Or at the very least having it fit the story. And it looks like Quiet fails on that regard.
Well, that and Kojima went out of his way to address this. Remember, he pulled the whole you're going to look stupid for criticising this when you see the reason for it card. I dare say, there probably wouldn't be the same reaction if Kojima hadn't literally tried to "shame" people with his DEEP AND MEANINGFUL reasons for a woman with her tatas out.

Unsurprisingly, this ends up being a problem for more than just scantily-clad women. Look at Lost or Heroes. The moral of the story is if you claim you're going to blow everyone's mind, you'd better have an army of robot spiders inserting C4 in their brains.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Bat Vader said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Because she's an even more blatant source of fanservice in a world that isn't strictly devised for fanservice.
Who the fuck wears a bikini top to battle?
Someone who is really stupid or wants to die? If this was Arma or something I could understand people kicking up a fuss. This is the Metal Gear franchise. Realism isn't really meant to be a thing in the franchise nor is being practical.
Forget realism or practicality. Intelligence isn't a thing in the franchise.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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stroopwafel said:
Makes no sense as who would be the audience for this? Certainly not the 90% of men who play the game. The remaining 10% of women(at most) most definitely won't find it pleasing either. A chick wiggling her ass and flaunting her boobs would have much of the opposite effect. Also ever wondered why it are never the attractive ladies that are 'offended' by this?
So your argument is basically "only plain or ugly people do this"? I like to think of myself as fairly attractive, judging by how many people have expressed interest in me over the years, and yet I am definitely put off by Quiet's appearance in the game. It has nothing to do with me being a prude, or being sex negative or being too ugly to get laid. It has to do with the simple reason that I want to be able to play the game, on my PS4, in my living room, without having to excuse to my wife why the supposedly elite sniper sitting with Snake in the chopper is dressed and acting like a stripper. It has to do with me wanting to play a game without having to have exploitation of female sexiness thrust into my face at every chance the game gets.
 

Arkliem

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Gethsemani said:
stroopwafel said:
Makes no sense as who would be the audience for this? Certainly not the 90% of men who play the game. The remaining 10% of women(at most) most definitely won't find it pleasing either. A chick wiggling her ass and flaunting her boobs would have much of the opposite effect. Also ever wondered why it are never the attractive ladies that are 'offended' by this?
So your argument is basically "only plain or ugly people do this"? I like to think of myself as fairly attractive, judging by how many people have expressed interest in me over the years, and yet I am definitely put off by Quiet's appearance in the game. It has nothing to do with me being a prude, or being sex negative or being too ugly to get laid. It has to do with the simple reason that I want to be able to play the game, on my PS4, in my living room, without having to excuse to my wife why the supposedly elite sniper sitting with Snake in the chopper is dressed and acting like a stripper. It has to do with me wanting to play a game without having to have exploitation of female sexiness thrust into my face at every chance the game gets.
Why does it have to cater to you or your wife? Kojima already has an audience and he plays to it. I take it you were fine with Ishmael's ass at the beginning being the center of attention for nearly an hour? Or the Naked Snake camo gear? Or how the MB grunts will respond with "Boss...Harder!" when you grapple and interrogate them?

I wouldn't demand Madden 2016 add guns, cars, or building simulation because I don't like football. Nor would I demand they change the Twilight saga into a futuristic cop action movie because I hate romance flicks. Or say I enjoy the plot of Naked Gun, but it shouldn't have had so many jokes.

Play a different game. Kojima's stuff tends to play to camp, tropes, and cheese. He's a mixture of silly and serious, and his games have all been like this. There are a multitude of games out there for you to choose from that will fit yours and your wife's tastes if you can't handle Quiet. Check out Dishonored, or Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Stay away from the MGS series if you don't want blatant fan service of both men and women.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Arkliem said:
Why does it have to cater to you or your wife? Kojima already has an audience and he plays to it. I take it you were fine with Ishmael's ass at the beginning being the center of attention for nearly an hour? Or the Naked Snake camo gear? Or how the MB grunts will respond with "Boss...Harder!" when you grapple and interrogate them?
Did I ever say that he should cater to me? I am expressing why I have a problem with Quiet's appearance, I am not saying anything about what should be done with it. No offense to you, but I am getting tired of expressing one viewpoint in threads like this (Why I don't like something) and having others respond to things I never said (like that I am no special case to be catered to).

Arkliem said:
I wouldn't demand Madden 2016 add guns, cars, or building simulation because I don't like football. Nor would I demand they change the Twilight saga into a futuristic cop action movie because I hate romance flicks. Or say I enjoy the plot of Naked Gun, but it shouldn't have had so many jokes.
You'll forgive me, as a long time Metal Gear Solid-fan, if I feel that borderline-exploitation fanservice is not part of the MGS core package. Some fanservice sure (and that has held true for both genders with characters like Fortune, Sniper Wolf, Vamp, Raiden etc.), inserted in more or less appropriate situations. The difference is that Quiet is not only stripperific, whenever she's seemingly in scene she's moving in a way that's reserved for bedrooms and strip clubs or the camera is glued to her sexual characteristics. Feeling that the exploitation aspect of the fanservice has gone too far is not the same as wanting more guns in Madden, since I am not asking for a core gameplay change.

Arkliem said:
Play a different game. Kojima's stuff tends to play to camp, tropes, and cheese. He's a mixture of silly and serious, and his games have all been like this. There are a multitude of games out there for you to choose from that will fit yours and your wife's tastes if you can't handle Quiet. Check out Dishonored, or Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Stay away from the MGS series if you don't want blatant fan service of both men and women.
I know what Kojima's games are like, having played them for almost two decades, but thanks for the patronizing tone. I want to play Metal Gear Solid V. I want to play the last game in a series of games that I've enjoyed immensely and that contains gameplay that fits my taste in games perfectly. Saying that Merrill, Sniper Wolf, Fortune, The Boss, EVA or even the Beauty and the Beast unit are anything like Quiet is to grossly overplay the fanservice of the former or downplay it in the latter.

Besides, it is not that I "can't handle" Quiet. The problem is that her presentation is so fucking juvenile in all its' fan wanking glory that it makes me ashamed to play a game where I regularly have to spend time watching her squirm around like I was feeding her dollar bills in a dimly lit backroom.