As there seems to be a significant interest in games with "different" perspectives, i really can't figure out why in capitalist system there aren't more independent games with female/gay/... protagonists (that big games with big money behind them are risk-averse i can understand). In a time where a video (!) about gender and games manages to collect 150k on kickstarter shouldn't there be indie developers flooding this niche where there is demand and no product? As i said, i don't know why it isn't happening and so i would like to hear your thoughts/opinions.
Why aren't there more games with female/gay/... characters in indie games?
- Thread starter broca
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The thing is, I doubt there is much demand for it as OP suggests. While I'm fine with GLBT in general, I don't want it shoved down my throat, and playing a game with such a protagonist would do just that (unless there's a way to avoid such relationship, and then why bother making that kind of character to begin with?).
I don't know, who's to say that the starting crew I recently got in FTL with two women and one man wasn't a pair of lesbians and one lonely gay guy?
Well, that's easy. Most games aren't set in present time reality and that's where and when open homosexuality, female equivalency and things like that got accepted. Even made-up genres like fantasy are often based on medieval era stuff etc. And it's not like indie games tend to have rich stories/dialogues and deep characters. But it would be nice to see an indie game that pulls it off.
When I've finished studying game development and am ready to start making my own games, I hope to create character who aren't all straight, white, brunette men. Of course, I'll be working with other people on these games, and those people are likely to be straight, white, brunette men, so chances are what I want will be belittled and rejected in favour of more of the usual.
The last few indie games I played as four elemental world building beings, an arrangement of neutral-gender cubes,a disembodied consciousness and a gender neutral infant with transient morphology, are you seeing a trend.
Jenova Chen(journey) at the gdc talked about how gender neutrality in games is important to speak to the universality of experience which games reach for. I mean why make gender or sex an issue when it doesn't have to be, its just an obvious way to go and why journey was such a powerful experience.
But that's kinda mov'in around the issue.
I had to play a game about trans-gender hormone swapping treatment(dys4ia) for my interactive narratives course. There are indie games out there like this but not many because often the player has to be dis-empowered because sadly society dis-empowers many minorities and that's something games at large aren't ready to touch both thematically and mechanically.
dis-empowerment as a mechanic is frightening for almost any developer (except Frictional)
Jenova Chen(journey) at the gdc talked about how gender neutrality in games is important to speak to the universality of experience which games reach for. I mean why make gender or sex an issue when it doesn't have to be, its just an obvious way to go and why journey was such a powerful experience.
But that's kinda mov'in around the issue.
I had to play a game about trans-gender hormone swapping treatment(dys4ia) for my interactive narratives course. There are indie games out there like this but not many because often the player has to be dis-empowered because sadly society dis-empowers many minorities and that's something games at large aren't ready to touch both thematically and mechanically.
dis-empowerment as a mechanic is frightening for almost any developer (except Frictional)
Those indie guys are just a bunch of stupid normies who only understand the straight mentality! :V
OT: Probably because a lot of indie games are so determined to be artsy and lesbians could be viewed as fanservice because of the potential appeal=so not artsy.
OT: Probably because a lot of indie games are so determined to be artsy and lesbians could be viewed as fanservice because of the potential appeal=so not artsy.
Probably because indie games are generally based around gameplay, not characters, and furthermore most of them have completely irrelevant protagonists who are not even humans, and males are probably easier to accomodate gameplay-wise as well. And all the other things people will mention here.
Humanity, yes. Gamers and game developers, noGenocidicles said:
Here's two high-res photos of DreamHack, one of the world's biggest LAN conventions - for gamers and techies who enjoy their stuff and want to have a good time. I'll give you a cookie for every female you spot:
http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/dreamhack-lights-up.jpg
http://dreamhack.ro/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/DSC00213.jpg
And here is a typical game development team:
Things are changing (slowly), but for now I'll let you do the math
*golf claps* that's using your imagination to kick those pesky sterotypes to the curb~ <3 FTLOwyn_Merrilin said:
personally, i'm somewhat 'tired' of 'romance' being the driving factor in a game, though if i was playing some guy *insert random any game guy 30 something dipped in some kind of brown* and his quest was to save 'Ashley' his fiancee... and we spend the whole game fighting through hell and back with a whole list of other people being temptations and moral issues and blah blah blah window-dressing that i actually kinda like and the gameplay is totally ballz-awesome... then we get to the 'end' and the insert-MC has beat insert-bad-person-here and he goes to save 'Ashley'... and we find out 'Ashley' is actually a guy... i'd be totally fine with this... seriously, i would... i would probably laugh XD
same if the situation was insert-Sue-protaganist off to save her fiance/person/lover 'Max' and we find out 'Max' is a 'Maxine'... totally fine with that, it places the GL in there and i don't have to deal with it being shoved in my face all day, its one of those 'haHA!' moments in my book...
personally i'd prefer amorphous relationships, as in nothing 'set', because quite honestly how i feel one's orientation shouldn't be their 'defining' point, its just a tag-on, its 'there', nothing more... like gender should be...
would like to see more GOOD female protaganists, or male protaganists that aren't all from the same clone shop... for the love of god people, even the SIMS got a color pallet *smacks them with it* USE IT!! its fine to be something other then male-30something-white-buff-guy!! and be FLAWED, that's even more important, i'm not a major fan of MCs just because most of them are freakin' Sues, perfect, generic, insert-plot-device-on-roller-skates people...
and so most of the games are made by 'dudes'? kay... talk to your 'girlfriend' or hell even your mom or somethignng, heck hire me and i'll bust out a detailed 'do and don't' for characters of non-30something-white-male-dipped-in-brown *snorts* or just make it interesting enough i can get over that... or provide options, like color pallet, and gender, and blah blah blah options~ even if that does only result in 'plot-point-on-wheels' it'll make people who want 'this' or 'that' happy~
i've worked with a pair of those 'indie guys' wanting to make a game, and yes, its my experience you can't tell them anything, even a female's opinion on what would make a game great or 'different' or something not just a rehash of CoD... its quite rediculous when you get the arguement of 'what would make you buy this game?' and they completely ignore it, even the smallest hints of 'is there even a female-character in your roster?' and getting blank stares as a response... *sigh* they had a 'gay' guy but even if i tell them he's overly sterotyped with not personality beyond 'he's gay' they look at ME like i'm crazy... and i'm the one that gave them the idea of 'hey, if you need money, do a kickstarter'... people... but yea, it all comes down to what 'developers' are willing to actually 'hear'... *shrugs*
This. In addition, as high as the stats might be for female gamers, I think the term is generally fairly loose for those statistics. I recently saw that 48% of all gamers are women...but what -defines- a gamer? If they're lumping in the women (and men) that only play Angry Birds, Words With Friends, and Rock Band in those statistics, the true demographic that would be affected by this subject matter is considerably less.Desert Punk said: