Why aren't there more games with heavy Lovecraft themes?

[The Wykydtron]

On the Eroge front we have Saya no Uta and Demonbane... though the latter has some... interesting design choices.

Edit: I'll add the reason is (like with films) cthulu is not very filamble, unless you do very basic references having what amounts to a god with it's mere existence annihilating the human race goes against optimism and escapism, especially as even if it's averted it's as downer as it comes with the hero becoming insane.

Off topic but is Saya no Uta good? As good as a bunch of people say it is? (like what, G-Senjo no Maou God Tier levels of writing? Grisaia S Tier levels of writing?) I'm not super into horror VNs but I enjoyed Corpse Party if that means anything.

 

[EyeReaper]

Because most gamers expect a final boss, and good lovecraftian entities can't be defeated. That was always one of the points, you know? That humanity as a whole were basically dust mites in comparison to the grand scale of the cosmic superbeings. You literally (outside of Old Man Henderson) can not win against them, which kinda rubs the "escapist fiction/power fantasy" crowd the wrong way.

Also, It's much easier to describe an indescribable monster with words than it is with models. It's simple to type out horrendous and ghastly and such the cawing maw with thirteen thousand eyes that all have eyes in their eyes in their eyes and such, because that allows the readers imagination to try to picture such a thing (and, if done right, take 1d4 SAN damage) than it is to actually present the fangorious mishmash that walks on teeth and chews with ribs. Book Cthulu is a terrifying terrible hulk of chaosanity, Images of Cthulu are just pictures of Davy Jones from Pirates of the Caribbean after hitting the gym.

I would say the best chance for lovecraft games is text based ones, Like the already mentioned Fallen London, or the Sea zone in Kingdom of Loathing.

 

[Sampler]

Spoiler: Is this why?

Though, I appreciate EC may be a bad word around these parts...

 

[Arkham]

I'm repeating a few others with this, but video games frequently empower the player in one fashion or another, typically through combat or validation of 'choices'. Humanity has a very bleak place in the Cthulhu Mythos, which traditional boss fights typically negate. Video games also have a hard time systemizing non-physical concepts, like interpersonal communication with NPCs.

I feel that this snippet encapsulates what I'm referring to.

Spoiler: H.P. Lovecraft in a note to Farnsworth Wrigth (July 27, 1927)

Now all my tales are based on the fundamental premise that common human laws and interests and emotions have no validity or significance in the vast cosmos-at-large. To me there is nothing but puerility in a tale in which the human form---and the local human passions and conditions and standards---are depicted as native to other worlds or other universes. To achieve the essence of real externality, whether of time or space or dimension, one must forget that such things as organic life, good and evil, love and hate, and all such local attributes of a negligible and temporary race called mankind, have any existence at all. Only the human scenes and characters must have human qualities. These must be handled with unsparing realism, (not catch-penny romanticism) but when we cross the line to the boundless and hideous unknown---the shadow-haunted Outside---we must remember to leave our humanity and terrestrialism at the threshold.

H.P. Lovecraft in a note to Farnsworth Wrigth (July 27, 1927)

 

[DementedSheep]

the Secret World has obvious lovecraftian influences. Mostly in the first area though the main plot with The Filth still keeps that theme over all even when you move onto the others areas. The Vanishing of Tyler Freeborn missions are some of my favourites.
But I think it doesn't translate to games all that well. It's hard to pull of things that are suppose to beyond comprehension and drive you mad just by looking at them in a visual medium and most games are going to want to end with the player winning rather than actually being completely outclassed and unable to defeat whatever it is no matter how good they are.

 

[sonicneedslovetoo]

The earliest one I can think of was Quake 1. and they moved right the hell away from that theme in Quake 2 onwards and if I could think up a reason it would be effort.
It is not easy to come up with horrible abominations as enemies it takes effort, a lot more effort than say a cyberdemon or most of the enemies in Doom and most people that I know consider Doom and Quake on about the same level. So while you could do something original like say bloodborne did but I'm not sure of the extra design effort into the monsters and setting would pan out into larger sales over more conventional designs which are cheaper and anybody can do.

 

[SD-Fiend]

Probably because it would get boring after a while. There are only so many stories that can be done using the big names like Cthulu and Nyartholtep.

Off of the top of my head there's Codename:S.T.E.A.M that uses Miskatonic University as a playable map, Randolf Carter as a playable character with a special called Eldritch Shield that summons a Cthulu like entity for protection, and all of the enemies are based off of Star Spawn and Shoggoth.

Persona 2 has a theme of Jungian psychology mixed with a few Lovecraftian characters. The Japanese only remake even has a scenario involving the war between the cats.

Etrian Odyssey 3 has it's central conflict revolving around combating an evil race of Deep Ones born of the vile space faring inter-dimensional Abyssal God in a hidden underwater city.

Spoiler: You even get to fight someone corrupted by Deep One Flesh

Spoiler: As well as the god itself

Then there's Shadow of The Comet, an old point and click game that takes most of it's story from Shadow over Innsmouth (called Illsmouth in game) and it's follow up Prisoner of Ice.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

So I'm pretty curious why there aren't too many serious games that delve into it -- you have They Bleed Pixels in a slight scale, Eldritch, Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth, but what other games are there with heavy, serious Lovecraft themes?

I'd say there are a lot of games that at least dabble with Lovecraftian elements. Bloodborne, Clockwork Empires, Grim Dawn, Mass Effect, Skyrim, Quake, Hard West, and Amnesia (just ones I thought of).

But as others have mentioned, a big part of the problem is that Lovecraftian literature was always sort of set against the backdrop that humanity is basically an insignificant speck in the cosmos compared to the grand designs of Giant Elder Space Gods. It's difficult to make a game where your character cannot kill the bad guys and technically speaking can't even look at them or they'll go insane.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Because there isn't yet the graphical power to let you see forever?

There really aughta be more of it out there. in general. Mind bending stuff.

 

[Erttheking]

Let's be honest, no video game has ever captured a TRUE Lovecraft experience. I adore Bloodborne and even then I still say it isn't a 100% pure Lovecraft story. But you know what? Maybe it shouldn't be. If you go in trying to make everything like Call of Cthulu, you're extremely limited in the type of story you can tell. You can only really tell "You try and stop the Old Ones and go insane/die/both as a result." Lovecraft's work just isn't something that can work outside of the written medium. It doesn't work in video games, hell, it wouldn't really work in movies either. Video games should really do their own thing with the ideas that Lovecraft created. I mean we wouldn't have gotten Bloodborne otherwise. It's not a 100% Lovecraft thing, it's a very hack and slashy RPG and you can see the designs of the monsters, but with its high difficulty and bleak story, you still get the overwhelming sense of hopelessness that Lovecraft left.

Variations and personal takes are good is what I'm trying to say

 

[TheVampwizimp_v1legacy]

While it is true that in Lovecraft the course of events most often ends in madness and death, or at least the protagonist's realization that they are helpless and must flee or die, this isn't always the case. In fact, some of Lovecraft's most famous stories are not about utter futility.

At the end of "The Call of Cthulhu," Cthulhu himself is discovered and awoken, and then promptly goes right back to sleep. The protagonist of "The Dunwich Horror" actually has several victories, even over the unknowable fiend trying to end the world. "At the Mountains of Madness," despite it's title, doesn't have that much madness. The protagonist gets away with his life and most of his wits, he just happens to have had his worldview turned inside-out. Some of the smaller stories, for example, "Pickman's Model," are just pieces of pure atmosphere, not so concerned with proving human futility.

I think as big a barrier as the basic subject material is the fact that Lovecraft almost never did action. His characters explored, ruminated, told stories, and reacted to the horrors they encountered, but rarely did more than put together pieces of a terrible picture. Other than puzzle games and point-and-click adventures, there aren't really any gameplay models that would allow you to live in the shoes of a Lovecraft character, which is so important in capturing the real sense of fear and awe that is essential to Lovecraftian storytelling.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

I feel like it's a little niche to be honest. Which is why we get a few but not a lot.

Plus Western RPGS are still stuck up Tolkiens ass.

See, I don't blame Tolkien for this; it's just like Poor old Alan Moore and Frank Miller with the explosion of 90's anti-heroes thanks to their respective magnum opuses. They sold well, ergo that's what every opportunistic publisher latched onto to the greater detriment of their respective mediums.

And yet BioWare has been able to publish like 7 traditional fantasy RPGs but Jade Empire is considered a dead IP.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

What other games are there with heavy, serious Lovecraft themes?

There's Darkest Dungeon, Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem, the first Alone in the Dark, Amnesia: The Dark Descent, and a bunch of DOS games like Shadow of the Comet.

As to why there aren't much more than these (along with those you mentioned), it's because Metaphysical Horror deals with immanent horror rather than tangible sources of dread. And no, that's not a typo. "Immanent" with an A refers to something that's intrinsic to someone else, so deeply rooted as to be difficult to explain in rational terms. And, well, the fact is there's just no way to rationally represent the Irrational, no way to represent the Mythos' key figures without calcifying them in a layer of art design and tech that makes them "approachable".

On some level, it's just plainly and simply impossible to go much further than Quake the first in name's notion of asking us to apply RPGs to Shub-Niggurath's ass until it dies. I'd love to play a game that really does sell Lovecraft's sense of hopeless dread, but it wouldn't sell at all. Even games like Amnesia have exploitable mechanics, something out of which you can suss out gameplay and winning conditions. Even Dark Corners of the Earth made sure to empower you at certain key segments, which made the actual ending all the more jarring for people who didn't know what to expect.

Some friends of mine who aren't into Lovecraft just didn't get the game's appeal, seeing as nothing you do ultimately matters. Walters hangs himself in his cell, the game's entire flashback narrative dies with him, and you haven't reliably Fixed Things at all.

Games typically involve some form of empowerment, and there's zero empowerment to be found in the Mythos.

 

[SweetShark]

Because in reality NOT many of them capture the real meaning of Lovecraft.
If Lovecraft Theme played a REAL role in a game, it should simple this: Humanity is f*cked. Humanity is so powerless against only a little essence of the idea of thinking seeing a materialized entity of a dimentional ancient being with the power to make you mad, scared, cry.

And yes, I know you love Lovecraft Theme only visualy and I love that too, but we must also respect how little we are.
This comic is educational btw:

Spoiler: Huge pic

 

[SweetShark]

What's the most common fate of a Lovecraftian protagonist? Dead, completely insane, or dead and completely insane. Lovecraft's entire schtick was everyday people faced up against incomprehensible things that don't even understand that we're people, that destroy us physically or mentally not even through maliciousness but via the very nature of their existence.

It's very hard to build a game around that. I've never played Bloodborne or any of the Dark Souls games myself, but I'm not sure how they really fit in to that genre beyond aesthetics (bizarre, misshappen horrors from beyond).

I only see Dark Souls kind of work becaase Humanity is already doomed. You are not a Hero and you will never be one. You are just one curse human soul trying to at least have your humanity intact.
And yes, I know there is a story, but that why also the story is so well hidden. Because if you care about the whole Humanity, you will search for the truth.
But, you not. You only care about yourself most of the time.

Btw Dark Souls X Undertale does sound awesome...

 

[CaitSeith]

Because games with zombies sell better and are easier to make.

Now seriously, remember how many zombie games and, zombie mods and games with zombies as iconic enemies have been released in the last 5 years? Between them there are some really popular games (from Minecraft and Half-Life 2 to CoD and DayZ). Lovecraft and eldritch horrors don't have the same kind of popularity (at least not right now).

 

[lionsprey]

as has been mentioned, it's because its REALLY hard to do a lovecraft game properly.
as a call of Cthulhu Keeper(DM) i kinda know this from experience. the thread you have to balance on too keep the game both fun and lovecraftish.
you can't let the players fight anything to big, or at least if they fight it they can't get away unharmed. Cultists are fine ghouls and ghosts you can get away with in small numbers but if your playing a Lovecraft game those aren't the ones you want to fight.
you want to fight deep ones, shoggoths, Mi-go and other famous and fantastical creations.
and there lies the problem these things are superior to humans. more often then not they are faster stronger and even smarter then a human and having the player defeat them outside extraordinary circumstances cheapens them and make them be something they are not.

the only game i played that kinda got the lovecraft vibe down was Dark corners of the earth and that only lasted about half of the game because you can only shoot deep ones so many times before they feel less like cosmic monsters and more like enemy variant B

 

[ensouls]

I've seen way too many games that are "Lovecraftian" but most of them fall into:
- cutesy or making wink wink nudge nudge references without really exploring the lore/atmosphere at all (the eroge games, the endless Lovecraft mods/expansion packs to existing games like Munchkin, comedy games like Breath of Death)
-some kind of rehashing of Call of Cthulu, because it seems to be the one Lovecraft story people want to make games out of (and somehow it's now inextricably linked to the hardboiled detective theme?)
-only vaguely connected. Ex. slapping some tentacles on a zombie and calling it a day.

I agree Bloodborne used it masterfully - it's truly weird, it's truly beyond your control, and even as the main character you really have to dig to find information and get involved.

I'd love to see some of his other stories because Cthulhu's getting a little tired by now. And I know it isn't Lovecraft, but could someone please make a good game concerning the King in Yellow?

 

[sXeth]

The core concept of Lovecraft's horror is you lose. Quickly and painfully if you're lucky, slowly and withering under insanity if you're unlucky.

Its not exactly something that lends itself well to the general concept of games that usually involve a potential to win.

 

[Buzz Killington_v1legacy]

There aren't even many BOOKS with Lovecraftian themes. For such an iconic name in horror literature, he has precious little in the way of imitators or homages. After reading "14" I went looking for Lovecraftian Horror and was endlessly redirected to the works of Lovecraft himself.

Have you tried Charles Stross's Laundry series? The protagonist is an employee of a British government agency that has the job of holding back Lovecraftian horrors. It's much funnier than Lovecraft, but the cosmic horror is still there.