Why Do We Shut Out The Different? An Article/Rant

TheGreatCoolEnergy

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1)Why do 'hardcore' gamers only want to kill everything?
Well, speaking from my expieriences, gamers get treated like shit. Maybe not all the time, but it's not like we are off banging the hottests chicks. So people game as a way to realease fustration, not to better themselves philosphically.

2)Why do hardcore gamers hate change?
Because they are already satisfied with how it is. Also, they don't want a bunch of other people coming to their 'thing' and taking it up.

3)Games as art
Although there is a lot of killing, I think the Fallout series is a work of art. It is weird because it is kind of an extrapolation of hwo the world could have been; 50's style along side plasma guns, all rusting in the heat. It is an interesting concept, and I find just wandering around and looking at stuff is much more enjoyable than killing raiders.
 

Cody211282

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RowdyRodimus said:
And right here we have an example of an art snob. If someone doesn't care for your pretentious little game that seemingly simulates a scene from another pretentious form of media (in this case American Beauty with the trash and leaves) then automatically the person has ADD and is only interested in killing.

Maybe it's because most arty games are all style and no substance. Maybe it's just that they aren't really games and interactive paintings. Maybe it's because people want video games to be, you know, games and not lessons on the creators views on life.
holy shit thank you for summing up what I was trying to say, but god forbid the OP hears it he might think you have ADD and are only interesting in making things bleed.
 

Carlston

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Games as a artform...

Like art the first person to take a bucket of paint and throw it at a blank wall and call it art was cute.

When half a million artist now do this, and when you point out its now just lazy crap they say you don't get it.

Games as art still means there is a game and "I" the player find it fun. You can be as deep as you want with the plot, story and game play. But give me three buttons and each one leads to a recording of Windows Media sound vibe shows and after you hit all three you get "Congratulation the winner is you..."

Well I don't know much about art....but I know what I like, and I know what is lazy slapped together bull dung with a thin layer of ego and you don't understand my suffering art which is in turn crap attempted to be mass produced for cash.
 

Void(null)

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Carlston said:
Games as art still means there is a game and "I" the player find it fun.
That's not art. That's entertainment.

Entertainment
?noun

1. the act of entertaining; agreeable occupation for the mind; diversion; amusement: Solving the daily crossword puzzle is an entertainment for many.
2. something affording pleasure, diversion, or amusement, esp. a performance of some kind: The highlight of the ball was an elaborate entertainment.
3. hospitable provision for the needs and wants of guests.
4. a divertingly adventurous, comic, or picaresque novel.



Art
-noun

1. the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
2. the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria; works of art collectively, as paintings, sculptures, or drawings: a museum of art; an art collection.
3. a field, genre, or category of art: Dance is an art.
4. the fine arts collectively, often excluding architecture: art and architecture.
5. any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art.
6. (in printed matter) illustrative or decorative material: Is there any art with the copy for this story?
7. the principles or methods governing any craft or branch of learning: the art of baking; the art of selling.
8. the craft or trade using these principles or methods.
9. skill in conducting any human activity: a master at the art of conversation.
10. a branch of learning or university study, esp. one of the fine arts or the humanities, as music, philosophy, or literature.
11.arts, a.( used with a singular verb ) the humanities: a college of arts and sciences.
b.( used with a plural verb ) liberal arts.
12. skilled workmanship, execution, or agency, as distinguished from nature.
13. trickery; cunning: glib and devious art.
14. studied action; artificiality in behavior.
15. an artifice or artful device: the innumerable arts and wiles of politics.



Both vastly different in definition, yet just like Theater... a Video Game can sometimes be both Art and Entertainment, however let us not get the two confused.
 

Carlston

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Void(null) said:
Carlston said:
Games as art still means there is a game and "I" the player find it fun.
That's not art. That's entertainment.

Entertainment
?noun

1. the act of entertaining; agreeable occupation for the mind; diversion; amusement: Solving the daily crossword puzzle is an entertainment for many.
2. something affording pleasure, diversion, or amusement, esp. a performance of some kind: The highlight of the ball was an elaborate entertainment.
3. hospitable provision for the needs and wants of guests.
4. a divertingly adventurous, comic, or picaresque novel.



Art
-noun

1. the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
2. the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria; works of art collectively, as paintings, sculptures, or drawings: a museum of art; an art collection.
3. a field, genre, or category of art: Dance is an art.
4. the fine arts collectively, often excluding architecture: art and architecture.
5. any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art.
6. (in printed matter) illustrative or decorative material: Is there any art with the copy for this story?
7. the principles or methods governing any craft or branch of learning: the art of baking; the art of selling.
8. the craft or trade using these principles or methods.
9. skill in conducting any human activity: a master at the art of conversation.
10. a branch of learning or university study, esp. one of the fine arts or the humanities, as music, philosophy, or literature.
11.arts, a.( used with a singular verb ) the humanities: a college of arts and sciences.
b.( used with a plural verb ) liberal arts.
12. skilled workmanship, execution, or agency, as distinguished from nature.
13. trickery; cunning: glib and devious art.
14. studied action; artificiality in behavior.
15. an artifice or artful device: the innumerable arts and wiles of politics.



Both vastly different in definition, yet a Video Game can sometimes be both Art and Entertainment, but let s not get the two confused.
Lol you been waiting a while to cut and paste that on to someone weren't ya.
Point taken...

But the good thing about a Art game?
Not being Entertainment
?noun
1. the act of entertaining;

We will not worry about
Sequel
A sequel is a work in literature, film, or other media that chronologically portrays events following those of a previous work.

Because of lack of sales
A sale is the pinnacle activity involved in selling products or services in return for money or other compensation. It is an act of completion of a commercial activity.[1]

Due to sucking
http://www.stageselect.com/N186-total-garbage-total-recall-review-nes.aspx
 

Superfly CJ

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Void(null) said:
Art
-noun

1. the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
2. the class of objects subject to aesthetic criteria; works of art collectively, as paintings, sculptures, or drawings: a museum of art; an art collection.
3. a field, genre, or category of art: Dance is an art.
4. the fine arts collectively, often excluding architecture: art and architecture.
5. any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art.
6. (in printed matter) illustrative or decorative material: Is there any art with the copy for this story?
7. the principles or methods governing any craft or branch of learning: the art of baking; the art of selling.
8. the craft or trade using these principles or methods.
9. skill in conducting any human activity: a master at the art of conversation.
10. a branch of learning or university study, esp. one of the fine arts or the humanities, as music, philosophy, or literature.
11.arts, a.( used with a singular verb ) the humanities: a college of arts and sciences.
b.( used with a plural verb ) liberal arts.
12. skilled workmanship, execution, or agency, as distinguished from nature.
13. trickery; cunning: glib and devious art.
14. studied action; artificiality in behavior.
15. an artifice or artful device: the innumerable arts and wiles of politics.



Both vastly different in definition, yet just like Theater... a Video Game can sometimes be both Art and Entertainment, however let us not get the two confused.
Entertainment could easily be interpreted as art, depending on the perceptions of the viewer/player. You can't confine art within a dictionary definition, especially a definition as loose as the one you gave.

Art is, by terms (and public understanding), any composition of elements that can instill an intended emotion or reaction from its viewer. The 'interpretation' part lies in what causes that resonance within you. Some may look at Raphael's Maddalena and be instilled with a greater sense of self worth, sadness, or even joy- others might just see a frumpy old woman and move on.

It's just a case of what 'aesthetic principles' you value most, and whether or not the invocation of joy resulting from this merits the the label of 'art'.

Anyhoo, to get on topic- I, personally, tend to stray away from the more artistic games, and i'm ashamed to say i've prematurely passed judgement on a few people, merely because they admit to playing them.
I suppose it's because i've yet to play one that bends the medium of gaming to the expression of the creator, (as opposed to bending the expression of the creator to the constraints and expectations of the medium- which is all i've seen thusfar) and as a result, have never found any worth in, what are essentially, glorified flash games. I'm overly skeptical of 'art gamers' and art games because of my own understanding of them. Though at the end of the day, neither of us matter- we're enjoying what we're playing, and thats all you could ask for.
 

Megacherv

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Sep 24, 2008
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SnowDensOfYesteryear said:
Aby_Z said:
While I can understand that, I play games to enjoy them. I would love to have a good story to 'em but ultimately I play them for the fun of it. A good story with horrible gameplay may bring me to watch it through on Youtube or something, but otherwise I wouldn't likely be able to get into as much as something with good gameplay.
I honestly can't think of a game, other than Pathologic, that had shit gameplay but a good story. Examples plox? :3
I thought Silent Hill 4 was one apparently

SnowDensOfYesteryear said:
I also would call myself a hardcore gamer, but nowadays I see it as more of a way to consider yourself one of those assholes on XBLI or PSN or PC Game's networks that are asshats calling everyone noobs.

And it's good to see another fan of Flower. :D
You see, I call those guys asshole-players. You generally see less dickhead PC gamers, but there are a select few out there. If you steer clear of public servers for games like CS:S and Dy of Defeat, and you'll be fine.
 

RowdyRodimus

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Cody211282 said:
RowdyRodimus said:
And right here we have an example of an art snob. If someone doesn't care for your pretentious little game that seemingly simulates a scene from another pretentious form of media (in this case American Beauty with the trash and leaves) then automatically the person has ADD and is only interested in killing.

Maybe it's because most arty games are all style and no substance. Maybe it's just that they aren't really games and interactive paintings. Maybe it's because people want video games to be, you know, games and not lessons on the creators views on life.
holy shit thank you for summing up what I was trying to say, but god forbid the OP hears it he might think you have ADD and are only interesting in making things bleed.
Not a problem, I saw how he kind of latched on to you to use as an example of what he doesn't like and felt it wasn't right that nobody took up for the fact that he basically said your opinion was wrong and didn't count. Plus, I know I don't have ADD and the only thing I want to make bleed are the hipster, John Mayer crowd lol.
 

Enigma6667

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Haven't played Flower yet, but that's because I don't have a PS3 yet. Damn you exclusivity!

But I played Braid which is another very Artsy game that still managed to be fun. And then there's Shadow of the Colossus which is my favorite game of all time, and that game is complete art.

I'd really like to have people be more accepting of different and new ideas, but that'll never happen unfortunately.
 

SL33TBL1ND

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I play games for gameplay and story. If there is neither of those two it is neither a game nor fun in my opinion. Oh and I have played Sleep is Death once or twice and you know what? I absolutely hated it. While the concept is fine, the execution is very poor, the interface sometimes annoying and finally, the inability to change how long the timer is absent.
 

More Fun To Compute

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Nov 18, 2008
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A lot of people are just not that adventurous in their tastes. That goes for everything, not just games.

They drink the most popular beer and love it because it is advertised on TV and their friends drink it so it makes ordering drinks easy and communal. They watch the same sports and play the same games and get frustrated with people who break from the group and do something different.

That said, many art games are over hyped as well. It's like, I don't really think that Passage really touched that many people deeply and changed their lives or something. It was a sort of interesting concept but not that well executed and pretty shallow. Oh wow really, time is linear and people get older? Holy fuck, now it all makes sense. Right. If someone came to me and told me that a new wave of games was coming spearheaded by Passage that were so good that I would never have to play a shallow game like GTA ever again and then I played Passage... Well, I would think they were soft in the head and not want to listen to them again.
 

darkonnis

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i tend to find games based wholly on new concepts i either struggle to get into or enjoy for a few hours before thinking... so this is it? i dont feel stretched either mentally(devising strategy, solving puzzles, working our moral dillemas) or physically (through the use of the controller, spamming combo's etc) Games which offer multiple paths are usually the ones i go for. Like dragon age which' ive jsut completed again for the 3rd or 4th time. On the one hand i run around as Loki, the angel of death flattening everything, and in the other i am the scales of justice itself deciding if someone or thing which i may never of encountered before lives or dies or faces exile or a whole host of other choices. I haven't tried this flower but if its very art based ill probably not enjoy it for long, there are few things which make me stop and think, thats amazing. Ill have a look for it though
 
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...Oohboy.

RowdyRodimus said:
And right here we have an example of an art snob. If someone doesn't care for your pretentious little game that seemingly simulates a scene from another pretentious form of media (in this case American Beauty with the trash and leaves) then automatically the person has ADD and is only interested in killing.
The guy I called ADD-ish said he only got about 20 minutes into the game. If you got twenty minutes into a book and put it down because it didn't immediately have the entertainment that was put on the back of the book, that would be really fucking stupid.

And hey, at least I'm not one of those asshats calling people philistines. ;)

RowdyRodimus said:
Maybe it's because most arty games are all style and no substance. Maybe it's just that they aren't really games and interactive paintings. Maybe it's because people want video games to be, you know, games and not lessons on the creators views on life.
Now tell me, Mister Rowdy, what was the last art game you actually played to any extent? Any? Ever? You seem to be making assumptions that all art games, all of them, are just some devvie's stupid moaning, becoming emo bitches and typing their whiny shit up. Frankly, that's not it at all. I'd like to point out Erik Svëdang's game Blueberry Garden. It's a game mostly just about curiosity and exploration, and it really doesn't force views on you. And it also, happens to be fun. Maybe you have tried indie games, and hated them, but that's like playing a first-person shooter someone made on an engine that was really shitty, and then giving up on first-person shooters entirely because one sucked.