Why does America fear/distrust it's government?

[Vankraken]

The problem with the American government (besides the inefficiency of bureaucracy) is that citizens elect candidates from a party and the system is basically stacked so only 2 parties have a chance of winning. These candidates are funded by corporations which want favors done once they are installed into office. So the end result is we are electing people who are suppose to represent the interest of the people they serve but instead are in effect working for the corporations that fund their campaign.

Also we have a group of people who represent the interest of corporations that directly interact with the representatives called lobbyist who's job is to influence the government to make decisions that benefit their needs. The representatives rarely bother to learn what the citizens of their state/district care about.

Combine these with the fact that congress basically can increase their own pay and its not uncommon for additional deals to be attached to bills that can result in funding for special projects (aka they only benefit a very select few) and other corrupt things.

The current political parties are far less interested in the welfare of the population and care more about promoting their own ideology, making money, and taking care of their benefactors and friends.

The biggest problem is people do not go into politics to make the country a better place but they go into it to gain power and money. The people who try to get into politics to truly help the country rarely get to the state government level before they get corrupted by the backroom deal making or stagnate because they don't play the "political game".

The interest of the people is often very low on the priority list for the typical national level politician.

 

[orangeban]

I have a question for all the Europeans and Australians that seem to love to bash capitalism...does the fact your world GDP percentage continues to shrink in the face of American, Asian, and Latin American capitalism scare you at all? USA percentage of world GDP has held pretty steady over the last 40 years (after a huge jump after WW2). Asian countries have seen a steady increase, and Latin America with a slight increase (they would be more of a threat if they could simply implement better law enforcement and reduce corruption). In the mean time, the EU continues a steady decline. If the trend continues the EU will be passed by Asia in the next decade, and in the next 50 to 100 years be similar to Latin America or even Africa.

That pretty much sums up why Americans do not like socialism. Yeah, it's great for a while when you can piggy back on the successes of the past. Everyone gets to share in the current wealth structure. Yet it is destined to be a slow death. Socialism stagnates the economy. In a vacuum it is great, but when going up against foreign competition it will continue to fall behind.

The USA certainly has it's own issues, and I am not in favor of unchecked capitalism. Yet I find it laughable how many people here laud socialism as being great when a continued erosion of your GDP with no signs of reversing is staring you right in the face. Sharing wealth is great, but at some point you won't have any to share.

and to get back to the original point, you trust a government that ignores that trend? Maybe you should trust your government less.

Heck, the US has a similar thing staring them in the face, the national debt. That too was caused by politicians.

Well, your point seems valid and I can see no exceptions to the idea you put forward.. OHWAIT! China! That (sort-of) communist state, which is the faster growing economy in the world!
Then Brazil! Also a very fast growing economy, which is governed by a left wing group of socialists! (There president used to be a marxist, toned it down a little when going into politics)

And you know what? I can deal with a bit of a recession (who knew that you would experience recession during a global financial recession /sarcasm) if it means free health care, free education, free housing, social security and welfare.

Urm, and I have no idea what you mean about sharing wealth. The way it works is the people pay tax to the government and the government pays them back in terms of serivices. No money is lost (ideally)

It's like saying, if I share my books among my family, soon my family will have no books left. Bwuh?

Edit: As someone living in Britain I distrust the Tory government because I think they're out to slash and destroy our welfare systems. Plus, David Cameron is the slimiest sonofabitch I ever did see.

 

[TheDude7053]

Because their all a bunch of money hungry corrupt assholes

 

[blackdwarf]

everyones distrust their goverment, but i do agree that america has more complot theories then other countries.

 

[starkiller212]

As a certain indispensable guide puts it:

"The major problem ? one of the major problems, for there are several ? one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.
To summarize: it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem."

 

[Kingpopadopalus]

snip

I agree that Bush was not the best of presidents but he did do great things such as what you said. It was either him, or it was gore or kerry, and lets all be honest, none of us could imagine what that would be like.

Statistically speaking the conservative held congress and senate have actually done better then any of the democratic ones preceding or succeeding. The cost of big government is lengthy and unwanted yet people don't happen to see that in the long run big government is going to run you into the ground and become a bureaucracy which will hinder itself in so much red tape it would appear to be the governments skin. Also if we were to go with a true democracy as so many people think we have currently (HA! jokes.) we would eventually fall into a dictatorship as has ever true democracy such as the ancient Greeks. So far a republic is the best system of government because if human greed comes into play we can just vote out our elected officials, if corruption occurs it's all able to be taken care of by removal from office. It's still flawed but it is the least flawed when dealing with people as we are now.

OT: Americans as a whole fear big government due to the fact that big government anywhere has yet to work and has also tried to keep us down before we became our own country. It was the lack of representation and the huge amount of power the government had that made us fear it ever being repeated because the last thing we want is to have to spill unnecessary blood. Especially those of innocents.

 

[razerdoh]

Dear Americans grow some balls an make your goverment fear you. As Thomas Jefferson once said: ?When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.?

And "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty."

 

[Nosforontu]

Well, your point seems valid and I can see no exceptions to the idea you put forward.. OHWAIT! China! That (sort-of) communist state, which is the faster growing economy in the world!

Except that China's Economic growth is still heavily tied to its ability to export to the United States to drive its own economy. Additionally their is this tidbit from http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-27/why-china-s-heading-for-a-hard-landing-part-1-a-gary-shilling.html

"But before you worry about China?s becoming No. 1 any time soon, consider the remaining gap between its economy and the U.S. economy. In 2009, China?s GDP was $4.9 trillion, only 34 percent of the U.S.?s $14.3 trillion. Because China has 1.32 billion people, or 4.3 times as many as the U.S. has, the gap in per-capita GDP was even bigger: China?s $3,709 was only 8 percent of the U.S.?s $46,405."

While their growth rate over the last 40 years has been very impressive they still have to grow by double digit numbers economically for the next three decades to overcome the United States and then only if we grow by 2%. Additionally that rapid growth rate in part comes from just how very bad their economy was before they began loosening it up after the end of the Cultural Revolution and a shift in policy by America to pry China away from the Soviets via various trade agreements.

 

[Kleingeier]

Dear Americans grow some balls an make your goverment fear you. As Thomas Jefferson once said: ?When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.?

And "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty."

Yes, because the US is the only country with a government that rules. The government is meant to rule, you dolt. That's why it's a government and not a club.

 

[Robert Ewing]

Lastly, free speech. I've often said that free speech is overrated, and often the world views America's views as very one-sided and jaded at times. Take the Westboro baptist church, KKK, Brooklyn street gangs, LA street gangs, Neo-nazi's, church of scientology-- All born from the 'gift of free speech.' I think you'll all agree that America has constitutionally shot themselves in the foot. Which they can't help now of course, it's forever embedded into the American constitution. But if I had to chose, I'd of set down some regulations on the whole free speech things. To maximize the amount of free speech for just reasons, and minimize the amount of hate and stupidity.

I appreciate and respect your ability to speak your mind, but get out of my country, Fascist. (Assuming, of course, you're in my country. Ahem.)
Sure, regulating what people can and cannot say seems like a great idea when it's things we don't agree with, but what happens when something close and important to you comes under scrutiny? What would you say, then?

Information and ideas should always be open for free exchange, no matter what we personally think of them, or even if they actually are of dubious morality. It's better that free and open discourse of ideas be able to be discussed and promoted publicly, no matter what they are-- keep it as the enemy you know. Ban the exchange of certain beliefs and ideas, and you only push it further underground, where it's potentially under even less scrutiny.

Our ability to have free and open discourse is one of the few true hallmarks we have left. Take that away, and we're only a few steps away from the likes of North Korea, Syria, Lybia, Saudi Arabia, and others who seek to control their populaces thoughts and beliefs. And that....should scare the shit out of anyone.

ed-- We already teeter on the brink of collapsing into a fundamentalist ideology if the Religious Right movement gains much more steam. Regulating thoughts and ideas is just one more way to push us closer to that edge.

I wasn't saying that you'd completely police free speech. I'm saying you need to police the extremists that cause real danger to the people around them. Physically and mentally, as the pen is mightier than the sword, words can influence both terrible and great things in people, I just want to help minimize the terrible part. If you want to call me a fascist for wanting all organizations based around hatred, violence, lies, gone... Then yeah I'm a fascist.

 

[VanTesla]

Corruption, greed, propaganda, using a old system that is out dated, two party system, corporations have to much control, the insane amount of contradictions they make through actions and words, trying to police the world when it can't even police it's self, and being major dicks to everyone that does not have power.

I don't think we have close to the worse Gov't in industrial sociaty, but we are no where near the top 10 best (in my opinion). Rather be in America than China, Russia, Brazil, Iran, Israel, India, etc. I have no fear of my Gov't, because I do nothing that would make them come at me.

I would love to make major changes in how my government is run though.

 

[Infernai]

I live in Australia, so if the american government is anything like ours...I don't blame them.

 

[orangeban]

Lastly, free speech. I've often said that free speech is overrated, and often the world views America's views as very one-sided and jaded at times. Take the Westboro baptist church, KKK, Brooklyn street gangs, LA street gangs, Neo-nazi's, church of scientology-- All born from the 'gift of free speech.' I think you'll all agree that America has constitutionally shot themselves in the foot. Which they can't help now of course, it's forever embedded into the American constitution. But if I had to chose, I'd of set down some regulations on the whole free speech things. To maximize the amount of free speech for just reasons, and minimize the amount of hate and stupidity.

I appreciate and respect your ability to speak your mind, but get out of my country, Fascist. (Assuming, of course, you're in my country. Ahem.)
Sure, regulating what people can and cannot say seems like a great idea when it's things we don't agree with, but what happens when something close and important to you comes under scrutiny? What would you say, then?

Information and ideas should always be open for free exchange, no matter what we personally think of them, or even if they actually are of dubious morality. It's better that free and open discourse of ideas be able to be discussed and promoted publicly, no matter what they are-- keep it as the enemy you know. Ban the exchange of certain beliefs and ideas, and you only push it further underground, where it's potentially under even less scrutiny.

Our ability to have free and open discourse is one of the few true hallmarks we have left. Take that away, and we're only a few steps away from the likes of North Korea, Syria, Lybia, Saudi Arabia, and others who seek to control their populaces thoughts and beliefs. And that....should scare the shit out of anyone.

ed-- We already teeter on the brink of collapsing into a fundamentalist ideology if the Religious Right movement gains much more steam. Regulating thoughts and ideas is just one more way to push us closer to that edge.

I wasn't saying that you'd completely police free speech. I'm saying you need to police the extremists that cause real danger to the people around them. Physically and mentally, as the pen is mightier than the sword, words can influence both terrible and great things in people, I just want to help minimize the terrible part. If you want to call me a fascist for wanting all organizations based around hatred, violence, lies, gone... Then yeah I'm a fascist.

Yup, I basically agree. He's not saying America should be like North Korea, but like Britain, where we have laws about inciting hate and violence. Which is why we banned the WBC from coming over here. Not really fascist, more common sense. (or Political Correctness gawn mad! Depends on your view)

Here's a question about freedom of speech: Should we restrict it? Before you answer consider this:
Unrestricted Freedom of Speech says I can stand in Hyde Park during a BNP rally or whatever and rile them into a riot against foreigners and then (presuming I didn't take part in the actual riot other than causing it) not get charged for anything.

Unrestricted Freedom of Speech says that I can go into an airport, point at a person holding a briefcase and shout, "He's got a bomb!" without getting in trouble. it also says I can go into a skyscraper and shout "Fire!"

Here's the real interesting thing that people don't think about that much: Unrestricted Freedom of Speech says that I can say whatever I like about anyone, no libel laws. Gandhi? Killed and raped people, hey why you angry? I can say what I want. And remember, it's not just me who can say stuff like that, it's everyone, including news corporations. News corporations can now also publish any stories, no matter if it's false or if the person the story concerns doesn't want the story published.

 

[orangeban]

Americans ***** that they don't want the government running things, but the fact is that the government is the sole organization in their entire fucking country with an interest in actually helping them, as opposed to screwing them for all that they're worth.

I mean, if you don't want healthcare in the hands of the government, then no one at all is going to take it up. Look, fuck the people who are too short-sighted to see this. I love America, but it can really drive me up the wall sometimes.

Not everything the government does is done to hurt you. No, the government does not exist specifically to screw you. In fact, it's about the only thing out there trying to help you.

Suggesting A, that the government is trying to help people, and that B, no one else is.

Sure, there are certainly some good people in Washington committed to helping people, but a vast majority of them are career politicians through and through who care only about lining their pockets and getting reelected. You wonder why we don't trust these people?

There are, however a large number of charity organizations in this country who do good work at no charge.

Frankly what we need is not a government run healthcare system, but stricter laws ensuring insurance companies can't try to weasel out of legitimate claims (otherwise we end up with an Allison Theus situation). Medical operations often don't cost people a dime here when the people we're paying to help us are legitimate, it's just that too few of them are legitimate.

Okay, I'm riled up now, so one more thing. What the FUCK is with your tax rate? You guys wonder why your economy is fucked? The highest tax bracket kicks in at over a third of a million dollars, and it's only thirty five fucking per cent! You wonder why your economy is fucked? It's because you're fucking it! The media feeds your population a load of horseshit, and they swallow it whole

Our economy is fucked because our current politicians can't stop spending money they don't have, not because we don't tax people enough. To the contrary, I agree with what Churchill said: "I submit that a nation trying to tax itself into prosperity is like a man trying to stand in a bucket and lift himself up by the handle." Bear in mind - things you pay taxes for, such as college, medical care, etc., our government doesn't pay for that. Instead, we pay for those things to private institutions that don't fall under government control.

That's because conservative groups in the US have spent decades convincing the population that government is always incompetent.

Well, if the current political climate has shown us anything, it's that they're really not wrong in that regard...

Hah, it could be worse. I mean, just look at the previous eight years of government - now that's real government incompetence!

Haha, no disagreements on that. Although personally I have to say Bush did a better job than Obama has done so far (he did manage to prevent any post-9/11 terrorist attacks on American soil and brought gas prices down to a reasonable level and kept them there till the end of his term), but that's just one guy's opinion...

Stop moaning about gas prices! They're still nowhere near Britain's and we pay much higher tax than you! Seriously, they're not that bad.

 

[VanTesla]

I was taught by my parents that the Republican party is a team of evil, lying, hypocritical douchebags who constantly try to wiggle around the rules that were made when the nation was formed. They are currently behind the wheel of Congress.

That is a extreme view... Many members of my family are Republican, Democrat, or neither. We all get along and my Uncle who is Republican, is very open minded on both sides of issues, we agree and disagree on many issues, but we both agree that both dems and republicans in office are just that in name and not actual philosophy. Mostly none of today's Republicans and Democrats in office are what they where a couple decades ago, their ideals have changed back and forth constantly, they are just labels now...

Republicans that praise Reagan as some kind of saint, would never vote a person like him in today... Both sides of the extemes have warped views on history.

 

[Mcupobob]

I fear the government because their only human and given more power than I'm comfortable with. Also the government is about as getting things done Legless monkey.

 

[theultimateend]

Nixon and Watergate started the Mistrust of the government in large scale.

Fox and similar for profit news stations did the rest of the work.

Fun fact: The basis for Fox News was drafted within the Nixon Administration. More connected than you think!

Wow. If that's true that's pretty neat.

Bad kinda neat, but neat.

I'm a little surprised that folks think American's have always hated the US government.

It was more or less worshipped quite a few times up till Watergate.

The current owner of Fox News drafted the idea for an establishment conservative news outlet that would provide people with a means of attacking left wing politicians.

It's postmodernism at work. In our current culture, the illusion of Big Brother and the Lizardmen holds more weight because it's everywhere and infinitely more exploitable. Now every one is a conspiracy theorist and everything is a sign. Nixon and Kissinger did indeed ruin things. Reagan made them worse. Now the only plausible answer is that the government is to blame for everything, and yet at the same time, everyone agrees that the government has no power and the corporations rule. Blame everyone; do nothing.

That's pretty interesting insight.

I'm personally what I like to call an "Optimistic Realist".

Right now does kinda suck, the food health in the US is below 3rd world (we have tons of calories but very little real food currently), politics is a little retarded, and most states are having issues.

But I look at it like the teenage years, we just have a little bit of a retarded period and then we look back on it in the near future and laugh at how stupid we were and are happy we've gotten past the problem.

I'm not convinced that this is a downward spiral, doesn't seem to be.

 

[Agarth]

I think that the American fear of it's own damned government is just caused by stupidity and paranoia that, when combined, becomes an unstoppable force of ignorance that slapping someone and saying, "No, the government does not have security cameras hidden in TVs. They couldn't possibly observe that many screens!" cannot fix. Trust me I live surrounded by morons like that. It makes me almost not want to even live in America.

 

[Jeff Loper]

They seem to be in the process controlling almost everything else between Local, State, & National Regulations. If I wanted to be completely controlled I'd point my ship toward the Delta Quadrant & probably wind up like the Hansens.

 

[TheScientificIssole]

I fear no government and trust no government. I wait only for the dawn of our true Illuminati/Lizard people overlords. And I accept them.