Why does Rotoscoping get a bad rap?

[Soviet Heavy]

Rotoscoping is the process of painting over top of recorded footage. If you have ever seen a Don Bluth film, you have seen rotoscoping. It's very easy to catch, because there is a certain fluidity to the animation that seems like it is going just a bit too fast to be done traditionally. For some reason, many animators deride the use of rotoscoping, calling it a lazy method of animating and a cheap means of cutting corners. Even Ralph Bakshi, a guy almost infamous for his extensive use of rotoscoping, says that he dislikes the method, and that if he found a better way to achieve the same look he'd use it.

Now I've never understood that sentiment. By all intents and purposes, Rotoscoping was just the earliest form of motion capture CGI, only done with paint instead of computers. You don't see people screaming at Peter Jackson for not using makeup to create Gollum, or declaring him lazy for using CGI. In fact, Gollum is widely praised as arguably the most realistic motion capture creation in film. I think like anything, as long as it is done well, you shouldn't be so quick to judge something because of the methods used. There have been plenty of terrible motion capture CGI abominations as well (hello Jar Jar. He never once looked convincing, which is strange when you see something like Boss Nass who looks incredible even today).

In fact, I actually love the use of rotoscoping, because it just lends a unique quality to an image that is impossible to replicate otherwise. As I just said, as long as it is done well, I don't think that we should criticize the method as a whole. Even today, the rotoscoping effects from Snow White hold up exceptionally well.

(Fun fact, I almost put the intro to Cowboy Bebop the movie in as my example, until somebody pointed out that it wasn't rotoscoping, but just an incredibly talented animator.)

 

[tippy2k2]

I did rotoscoping back in my college days (art major here!). I thought it was some of the coolest shit I've ever created and I'm kind of surprised that an artist is saying he hates it because it's lazy...

It's a giant pain the God damn ass is what it is! It takes freaking forever and it's easy to screw up. I'm going to jump to my old laptop and see if my rotoscoped thing is in there to show this in action. So I understand why an artist would hate rotoscoping but I'm surprised he hates it for the reason he gave...

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EDIT 4: I cheated. Due to having so many problems getting the video moved over, I took my phone and recorded it off of my computer with the camera. Keep in mind that this was an abandoned project so it kind of sucks (like...it really really sucks. I have that video set to private so that no one but you lucky bastards will ever get to see it) but that might work perfectly to illustrate my point of "pain in the ass". This video clip is about 30 seconds long and took me over 8 hours to do.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I think it might have something to do with the shame of tracing. With rotoscoping you're not animating as much as you're literally tracing over pre-existing motions.

All animation is usually done by looking at motion - animators capturing themselves on film to see how they move, making facial expressions - and then try and translate that to paper. With rotoscoping, that effort is completely circumvented and results in something that moves too obviously real. What makes good animation is generally that sense of exuberance, making motions and expressions that bit more overabundant. With full-on rotoscoping you tend to lose that. Maybe there's more to it, I don't know.

And honestly I'm not a fan of rotoscoping myself, except for Fire & Ice and A Scanner Darkly. The rotoscoping in Don Bluth movies in particular always looked so overly pantomime and silly to me. But then I only really liked two of his movie anyway, one of which features zero humans at all.

 

[Tanis]

It CAN be done well, but most of the time it comes across poor and cheap.

There's a new anime series out that's getting a LOT of flack because it uses it.

The problem is...the manga has BEAUTIFUL art.
The anime makes all the characters look like they have down syndrome.

It's probably gonna end up being canned fairly quickly because it.
Which really is a shame because I think, if done properly, the manga could make for a great anime.

 

[Jacob.pederson]

In fact, I actually love the use of rotoscoping, because it just lends a unique quality to an image that is impossible to replicate otherwise. As I just said, as long as it is done well, I don't think that we should criticize the method as a whole. Even today, the rotoscoping effects from Snow White hold up exceptionally well.

(Fun fact, I almost put the intro to Cowboy Bebop the movie in as my example, until somebody pointed out that it wasn't rotoscoping, but just an incredibly talented animator.)

I was always floored by how good some of the scenes in Snow White were (my favorite is the candlelit scene in the bedroom); I wasn't aware they were rotoscoped! Although there is no arguing with the results; it does take something away from the accomplishment. When you show someone a drawing, there is an expectation that you drew it.

 

[LoFr3Eq]

This is a very basic version of what is being described, and it looks cool.


Also keep in mind that the Pirates of the Caribbean CGI is done with digital rotoscoping, with the same method, but with computers to copy the frames and bits of stuff being altered.

 

[Kaimax]

lol I expected this thread has something to do with "Aku no hana".

ontopic, for me the whole idea that it's basically tracing is the deal breaker. And honeatly after seeing aku no hana, it just comes off lazy.

 

[kailus13]

Pesumably because it can go really really badly. Aku no Hana has already been mentioned, but I think it's worth looking at with pictures for the full horrifying effect.

Spoiler

A Scanner Darkly was good though.

 

[somonels]

It gets a "bad rap" - you say it like it's unjustified - because it's used poorly and usually ends up looking like crap.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Eh?

I didn't know people didn't like it. Surely it's just a technique, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't or isn't appropriate.

 

[DrRockor]

Pesumably because it can go really really badly. Aku no Hana has already been mentioned, but I think it's worth looking at with pictures for the full horrifying effect.

Spoiler

A Scanner Darkly was good though.

wow. I didn't think it would look that, well weird. It feels like there is something off. Very uncanny valley.

I guess people think that its lazy but I think that if its done well, it can look really good. It can give a stylised look with realistic movement.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

It gets a "bad rap" - you say it like it's unjustified - because it's used poorly and usually ends up looking like crap.

As can a lot of motion capture CGI, which is essentially the same thing, and yet we don't deride that when it is done well, while rotoscoping as a whole is criticized. It can be done well, and it has been done well, but the stigma attached to the practice seems to overshadow the method in a way that MoCap hasn't had to deal with.

 

[YuberNeclord]

Rotoscoping is the process of painting over top of recorded footage.

Also, "In the visual effects industry, the term rotoscoping refers to the technique of manually creating a matte for an element on a live-action plate so it may be composited over another background."(Wikipedia*)

As an example;

Say you get some footage of a guy running down the street. Now say you've also got some footage of a beach. For some reason you want to take the guy in the street footage and put him in the beach footage.

It's at this point I'd probably yell at you for not green-screening the guy in the first place, which would have made the effect really easy to create.

Because the guy hasn't been green-screened you basically have to cut him out of the footage frame by frame. I'd do this in after effects using a mask that I'd have to reshape and move every frame to make sure that it is getting all of the guy while getting rid of all of the background.

Which is time consuming, tedious and annoying. And that's why I hate rotoscoping.

In regards to the method of rotoscoping where you trace over footage to create a form of animation, I personally don't have a problem with it, I actually quite like the visual style.

I have heard a lot of hate for the technique over the years though, usually from arts student and or animators. The usually say it's not "real animating"(they then go on to rant about how motion tweening isn't real animation either). It just sounds to me like they seem to think that the only people who should dare to do any form of animation are people who slave away for years learning to animate by drawing every individual frame. Which I totally disagree with because I can't draw to save myself, but I do enjoy animating so I find these shortcut techniques incredibly helpful. And the whole mentality just sounds pretty elitist to me.











*Yeah I know I shouldn't be using wikipedia as a source, but meh, it's almost 1am over here and I'm too tired to go hunting around for a more reputable source.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

snip

Honestly, at this point anything in the art world will be bashed by one person or another. Elitists will ***** abuot everything, claiming that their method of creating art is the only legitimate one.

I personally don't give a flying fuck about how something was made so long as it looks good. (This includes materials.)

 

[YuberNeclord]

snip

Honestly, at this point anything in the art world will be bashed by one person or another. Elitists will ***** abuot everything, claiming that their method of creating art is the only legitimate one.

Yeah I hear ya. In the film industry you've got the oldschool guys who constantly go on and on about how 'it's not a real movie' just because it's been shot on tape or *gasp* shot digitally. And if that wasn't bad enough you've got the younger generation of film makers coming up who don't think it's a 'real movie' unless it's shot on 2k or 4k or some other ridiculously high resolution, or unless it's shot in 3D or 48 frames per second or some other gimmicky crap.

 

[ninjaRiv]

I think it's because it's difficult to do effectively. Some of it looks awful, as we all know.

But when it is done right, it's not celebrated. So perhaps it has something to do with the "shame of tracing" that has been mentioned here already. people don't want to acknowledge that something so easy can be used well.

It looks fantastic in A Scanner Darkly and Lord of the Rings (the animated film) and worked WITH the film, rather than being used as a gimmick or to make things easier.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

It works in this:


Though I remember that movie being a lot more boring than that trailer make sit out to be...

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

It CAN look really lazy... but it doesn't always. I think it gets a bad rap when it's very obvious, when it's good rotoscoping most people probably don't notice.

Captcha: STOP TROLLING ME WITH AD'S ESCAPIST!

 

[Techno Squidgy]

My opinion on animating techniques: Does the end result look good? Yes? Then it's good, go for it.

I really like the animation in Heavy Metal, that was a film well worth watching. South Park's episode in homage to Heavy Metal ranks amongst my favourite episodes both for it's own reasons and because it introduced me to the film.

 

[YuberNeclord]

So perhaps it has something to do with the "shame of tracing" that has been mentioned here already

Oh I can't resist:




Also this topic reminds me, I was doing some experiments last year that are like rotoscoping(but even 'lazier' then rotoscoping):

Basically I exported the footage out as png's then added a cutout filter to them in photoshop, turned them back into a movie and then exported out the final result. This was just an experiment to see how it would look, I'm pretty happy with the results, the flickyness of the footage is something that I want to correct, I've got a couple of ideas how to do it, I just haven't had a chance to do any more experiments at this stage to compare which is the quickest way to fix it.