Why I Wear Princess Leia's Metal Slave Bikini

Liana Kerzner

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chocolate pickles said:
Better hope the SJW's and morality police don't get wind of this. They'll have a field day.
They already caught wind of it, mostly because the sort of people who can't help but complain about SJWs at every single opportunity just can't help themselves but get loud and obnoxious over every tiny thing a company does that might appeal to them. See also: Skullgirls changing a few frame of animation on some of their characters and Capcom moving a camera angle slightly.
 

Liana Kerzner

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If she said:

"I like the bikini outfit because it's sexy and cool, and I think it's dumb to hide sexy costumes, so I'll wear it even more in protest for Disney's dumb sex-ophobic plan"

....I couldn't have agreed more.

But no, she said:

"I wear the bikini outfit because IT'S EMPOWERING!!!"

....and that's kinda ridiculous.
 

RJ Dalton

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That line about choking Jabba with the very chain he was using to try and keep Leia under his control is exactly what I about the article where they were talking about Disney discontinuing it.

As an asexual guy, I've never fetishized Leia's slave outfit (this might only be because I have no interest in sexuality, but let's pretend I'm just a nice guy for now; it makes me feel better), and much about feminism just kinda shoots past me because I pay little attention to political movements, but as a storyteller, I thought the turnaround of having Jabba attempt to dehumanize Leia, only to have it be his very undoing was the most appropriate way to take the fat bastard out. He's undone by his own failings.
 

Phasmal

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Wow people are really taking the bikini thing seriously, huh.

Wear what you want, but calling people "counterfeit feminists" for disliking a bikini is kind of silly.
You have every right to like the bikini, I have every right to not like it. I really don't think that makes me a better or worse feminist.

Oh well.
Tell you what, though, I bet Star Wars toys are selling more right now, what with all the righteous indignation from those who like the bikini. Well played, Disney.
 

Space Jawa

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Phasmal said:
Wow people are really taking the bikini thing seriously, huh.
I highly suspect it's because it's merely the latest part of a much larger trend, and with the trend now hitting things as iconic as the PLMSB, it's giving them all the more reason to take the matter seriously.
 

crimson5pheonix

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A bunch of people telling a woman that her opinion is bad or wrong or disingenuous. Is this what feminists are going on about?

OT: You tell them!
 

ThatOtherGirl

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Phasmal said:
Wow people are really taking the bikini thing seriously, huh.

Wear what you want, but calling people "counterfeit feminists" for disliking a bikini is kind of silly.
You have every right to like the bikini, I have every right to not like it. I really don't think that makes me a better or worse feminist.

Oh well.
Tell you what, though, I bet Star Wars toys are selling more right now, what with all the righteous indignation from those who like the bikini. Well played, Disney.
I think "counterfeit feminists" is more a point about how these people are approaching feminism. I've seen the idea thrown around a few times, though not in such direct language. Here is the basic idea as I understand it, though I am not saying I agree with any part of it:

The basic idea of feminism is concerned with expanding freedom and equality for women, generally allowing them to self determine. Now, women have been legally equal for some time, but that has not meant as much as it should because women are not social equal. There are limits placed on women of what they are socially allowed to do (the penalty for which is being shunned, shamed, and often loss of opportunities). The idea is that these people professing to be feminist are working against the ideal of women being able to self determine by making it socially unacceptable for a woman to do certain things, such as wear sexy clothing.

Women, and cosplayers in particular, who enjoy dressing in sexy clothes are often targeted by these feminists as bimbos and sluts that are willingly subjugating themselves to the male gaze. There is a strong and growing stigma against women who would dare to dress sexy, and this stigma is being purposefully cultivated by people who call themselves feminists. Meaning we have "feminists" deliberately setting up a situation where women are socially shunned, shamed, and often lose opportunities for acting in a way they wish to act, which is the antithesis of feminism. Hence counterfeit feminist.

Basically, the problem isn't that people don't like the outfit. It is that many women feel they are being slut shamed for wanting to wear it (or similarly sexy outfits). And, really, that particular bit is hard to argue with. Slut shaming of women who dress sexy and of cosplayers in particular is well documented.

Not sure if I buy the entire line of thought myself, but the idea is something to consider.
 

TheMann

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You know, I'd would almost never post in a thread like this but, fuck it.

Here's a thought: If a woman wants to cosplay as Slave-Girl Leia, why should she have to justify herself to ANYONE?! All she has to say is "I like the Slave-Girl Leia costume, and want to dress up in it." She shouldn't have to make any explanation as to why she finds it appealing. To force her to do so it to take away her agency over her own actions. This is total bullshit. The slave-girl costume is an iconic image from Star Wars, pervy or not. I would just think that's what a person wearing it was going for. Now in the interest of honesty, I might still think "Huh, she's kind of hot.", but I do that anyway on a daily basis, and I keep it to myself. It's not like I'd bother her in any way. I also believe at least 90% of men would act similarly. Ladies, if you want to cosplay as this, don't feel like you must explain yourself. To think that you have to is to give these ding-dongs power over you that isn't their right to have.

Off topic:
Pyrian said:
Sure! We could totally be arguing about whether Starbucks using red cups constitutes part of a war on Christmas.
Ahhahahaha! SERIOUSLY? Man, that's hysterical. I go to Starbucks a bit because I have early courses (8am, ugh!). There's a Starbucks on campus and I don't think I'd survive without some caffeine. I noticed the red cups, but thought they'll probably follow it up with green cups to match, but I haven't seen this yet. Still, a "war on Christmas"?. That's just hilarious. Thanks, I needed that.
 

Phasmal

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ThatOtherGirl said:
Basically, the problem isn't that people don't like the outfit. It is that many women feel they are being slut shamed for wanting to wear it (or similarly sexy outfits). And, really, that particular bit is hard to argue with. Slut shaming of women who dress sexy and of cosplayers in particular is well documented.

Not sure if I buy the entire line of thought myself, but the idea is something to consider.
Yeah I kind of get where the thought is coming from but equating `you don't like this bikini` with `therefore you are a bad feminist` is very silly.
Feminism is good when its about choices.
She can choose to love and wear the bikini.
I can choose to think it's kind of lame.

By the way, anyone want to buy some counterfeit feminism? Looks just like the real stuff, I swear. But just don't come cryin' to me if you get busted by the Feminism Police.
 

ThatOtherGirl

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Phasmal said:
ThatOtherGirl said:
Basically, the problem isn't that people don't like the outfit. It is that many women feel they are being slut shamed for wanting to wear it (or similarly sexy outfits). And, really, that particular bit is hard to argue with. Slut shaming of women who dress sexy and of cosplayers in particular is well documented.

Not sure if I buy the entire line of thought myself, but the idea is something to consider.
Yeah I kind of get where the thought is coming from but equating `you don't like this bikini` with `therefore you are a bad feminist` is very silly.
Feminism is good when its about choices.
She can choose to love and wear the bikini.
I can choose to think it's kind of lame.

By the way, anyone want to buy some counterfeit feminism? Looks just like the real stuff, I swear. But just don't come cryin' to me if you get busted by the Feminism Police.
I don't really think she did equate `you don't like this bikini` with `therefore you are a bad feminist`. Not how I read it at all, and I am almost 100% sure she didn't mean it that way. She is saying that telling women "you are a bad women for wearing that and should be ashamed" is being a bad feminist.
 

Pyrian

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TheMann said:
Now in the interest of honesty, I might still think "Huh, she's kind of hot.", but I do that anyway on a daily basis, and I keep it to myself. It's not like I'd bother her in any way. I also believe at least 90% of men would act similarly.
Heh. 10% may be a small minority, but in absolute numbers it's an awful lot of people.
 

BlindTom

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Smart article, picked up mostly in the second half.

Hopefully one of these days the whole "Stop thinking about that" approach to "progressive" ideas will go out of fashion, at least in this subculture where it's seen some worrying flare ups of late.

Assuming the writer reads these, I'd be curious about opinions on Carrie Fisher's recent advice along the lines of "Don't be a slave like I was" when giving advice to new Star Wars' female lead.

I like to simply interpret it as "I hope you play your own character and not Leia 2.0." but it could be interpreted in some unfortunate sex negative ways. It could even be seen as a condemnation of the original scenes.
 

Liana Kerzner

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crimson5pheonix said:
A bunch of people telling a woman that her opinion is bad or wrong or disingenuous. Is this what feminists are going on about?
Yes, as it turns out, feminism is about telling someone with bad, disingenuous arguments that they're wrong when they call anyone with a different opinion of a particular outfit a counterfeit feminist and rely on little more than what amounts to a checklist of anti-feminist rhetoric to support it. That she's a woman just means that we use feminine pronouns when addressing her.
 

crimson5pheonix

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LifeCharacter said:
crimson5pheonix said:
A bunch of people telling a woman that her opinion is bad or wrong or disingenuous. Is this what feminists are going on about?
Yes, as it turns out, feminism is about telling someone with bad, disingenuous arguments that they're wrong when they call anyone with a different opinion of a particular outfit a counterfeit feminist and rely on little more than what amounts to a checklist of anti-feminist rhetoric to support it. That she's a woman just means that we use feminine pronouns when addressing her.
Oh alright. I guess it's okay to say a person's opinion is wrong when it's the wrong people having the wrong opinions.
 

Liana Kerzner

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crimson5pheonix said:
Oh alright. I guess it's okay to say a person's opinion is wrong when it's the wrong people having the wrong opinions.
Well when that opinion becomes the basis for an article where they present it to the world as some reasoned take on the matter, yes, it's okay to tell people that their opinions might be wrong. After all, we wouldn't want to create some sort of safe space where people's views aren't challenged. Or maybe we do, so long as the opinions happen to be ones whinging about those censorious, counterfeit feminist, morality police
 

crimson5pheonix

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LifeCharacter said:
crimson5pheonix said:
Oh alright. I guess it's okay to say a person's opinion is wrong when it's the wrong people having the wrong opinions.
Well when that opinion becomes the basis for an article where they present it to the world as some reasoned take on the matter, yes, it's okay to tell people that their opinions might be wrong. After all, we wouldn't want to create some sort of safe space where people's views aren't challenged. Or maybe we do, so long as the opinions happen to be ones whinging about those censorious, counterfeit feminist, morality police
No, it's okay. I just got feminism wrong. I thought it was about equality and empowerment. I was further confused by other people in the thread disagreeing with her without having to say that she's only pandering and doesn't actually believe what she's saying.
 

Liana Kerzner

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crimson5pheonix said:
No, it's okay. I just got feminism wrong. I thought it was about equality and empowerment. I was further confused by other people in the thread disagreeing with her without having to say that she's only pandering and doesn't actually believe what she's saying.
Well considering you think feminism is bowing to the opinions of any woman who uses words as if she were an infallible prophet of truth, I'd say you definitely got feminism wrong. You also seem to be imagining people writing words they haven't actually written, so your confusion makes sense.
 

crimson5pheonix

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LifeCharacter said:
crimson5pheonix said:
No, it's okay. I just got feminism wrong. I thought it was about equality and empowerment. I was further confused by other people in the thread disagreeing with her without having to say that she's only pandering and doesn't actually believe what she's saying.
Well considering you think feminism is bowing to the opinions of any woman who uses words as if she were an infallible prophet of truth, I'd say you definitely got feminism wrong. You also seem to be imagining people writing words they haven't actually written, so your confusion makes sense.
No, I think I got another word wrong. I thought "disingenuous" meant "insincere".

LifeCharacter said:
Someone's got an audience they want to pander to and the poor, cookie-cutter arguments to match!
But you definitely did say she was pandering.
 

Liana Kerzner

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crimson5pheonix said:
No, I think I got another word wrong. I thought "disingenuous" meant "insincere".
Oh, and who actually used that word before you came in?

But you definitely did say she was pandering.
Well, she just so happens to be expressing a number of views that all appeal to a certain group of people that she and the site she works for love appealing to, but you're right. It's wrong to make assumptions that people who are paid to write articles want their articles to attract attention from an intended audience.