Why is it in American culture, if you value time more than money you are considered lazy?

Brawndo

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Jun 29, 2010
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My cousin called me a few hours ago and said he got fired today (they always do it on Fridays). He had been working for a very large accounting firm that will remain nameless, and he regularly had to come to the office for a full day on Saturdays, and sometimes a half day on Sundays. Over the past eight months the stress was getting to him, so last week he told his boss that he no longer wanted to work weekends. He offered to restructure his Monday-Friday schedule to make sure he got his work done, but he told them he needed the weekends to unwind. Well his immediate supervisor really didn't like this, and told him he was in no position to make an "ultimatum" like this, especially because he was childless and unmarried. A week later my cousin was "forced to resign" (i.e. terminated) after not coming in the Saturday before.

Before I went to graduate school, I had a job in a very intense work environment after college. I was an analyst who spent about 12-16 hours a day reading little screens with numbers and writing recommendations and analyses for people above me. I didn't have to come in on the weekends because the markets were closed for trading, but the analysts had so much work that if we didn't want to get fired for incompetence, we had to work almost every weekend. That year is an absolute blur to me; I don't remember most of it because ninety percent of the days were the same. I was miserable, but also too afraid to quit a job that paid relatively good money. I was also afraid of disappointing my family. Then, the financial crisis happened in 2009 and I was laid off, which in retrospect was a godsend.

But the point of this thread is this: anytime I made a comment about my long hours to people in my life or on internet forums, I was told to stop being "lazy". My family and friends said that because I was young, I didn't have any other responsibilities and should work extra hard. If I wanted to get ahead, I needed to "put in my dues" during my twenties. When I mentioned becoming a school teacher, I was laughed at and admonished.

Online, the criticism was much harsher. Supposedly I was a Marxist socialist who hated capitalism. I was lazy and looking to sponge off of the government. I was told to read Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. They said if everyone was like me, this country would be nothing more than a giant third-world shithole. I was told multiple times to move to France. I was told to shut up and be grateful I was even employed, because people in India would do my job for a quarter of the wages and double the hours, all with a smile on their faces.

Is this really all that matters: money and more money? What's the point, just so I can buy more expensive shit I don't have time to use anyway? Growing up, I saw so many people who were stuck in an endless cycle of buying themselves into debt, working hard to pay down the debt, then buying even more. So many people I know absolutely hate their jobs, but they just continue with the grind because the devil they know is less frightening than the one they don't know. And above all, income and net worth are the most prominent ways by which we measure a person's value in American society.

This culture of work and money can really get exhausting sometimes and wear you down. But I can't even mention this kind of stuff outside the anonymity of the internet, lest I get blacklisted in my profession and ridiculed by my peers.
 

Vicarious Reality

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Jul 10, 2011
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You are living in a third world shithole, it seems
Don't mind me, just enjoying my 837.938USD/month after tax lengthened study help money from the state while watching NATO burn similar socialist democratic countries to mine to the ground
 

Kinguendo

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Apr 10, 2009
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People dont realize that its not normal to have multiple jobs, look at all these people bragging that they HAVE to work 3 jobs... and yet they dont see anything wrong with that and they scream "Where are all the jobs?! I bet illegals are stealing them!".

If I were you, I would pay no mind to these people.
 

Syphous

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Apr 6, 2009
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Nah, lazy is reserved for someone like me. It's been three years since I last worked and I'm not even trying to find a job.
 

GM.Casper

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Sep 4, 2009
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I sympathize fully. I have decided to not join this rat race. The pitiful scraps of cheese just aren?t worth it.
 

toolateforsundown

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Dec 17, 2011
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Vicarious Reality said:
You are living in a third world shithole, it seems
Agreed. Personally, I've always thought the "third-world" term should be either reevaluated or thrown out completely. Economic disparity is really a better evaluation of the functioning of a society than per capita GDP, a measure I find ridiculous.

But then I also see capitalism/commercialism/etc a method of brainwashing those with less resources to prop up the lifestyles of those with more in such a way that the most obvious form of revolt--however illusory the possibility of upward mobility may be--contributes to the stability of the system. Rather smooth how that works, isn't it? The greatest predictor of success in a modern capitalist society is simply being born into a wealthy family, yet we are all told hard work is all that is necessary to climb the ladder. This attitude is so prevalent to be implicit most of the time. And when you think about it, who does the efforts of the working classes benefit the most? Exactly, those who control the means of production. If it weren't so horrifying, I'd almost find it admirable.

Wow, I babble really easily >.>
 

scar_47

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Sep 25, 2010
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I've never seen the point of having money if you don't have time to enjoy it, as long as your supporting yourself and family if you have one thats really all you need to work. I'm about to be an accountant but I refuse to due taxes during tax season where its 14-16 hour days 6 days a week at most firms for about 4 months, yes you get tons of overtime but you literally have no time to do anything, that doesn't appeal to me. Also anyone who read and understood Atlas Shrugged or any Ayn Rand it's not just about making money their are far more important things.
 

Palademon

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Mar 20, 2010
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Whoa.
Whoa.
Whoa.
What's wrong with Marxist Socialism?
Also, why would being a Socialsit make you lazy...?
Just...WHAT?

Maybe you should take their advice and try to move country if you have to deal with these people.
 

flying_whimsy

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Dec 2, 2009
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First off, it's not American culture, it's corporate culture; in Japan there is actually a word for worked-to-death.

That aside, it has to do with the balance of power and the concept of bang for buck. There are two aspects of corporate culture that lead such aggressive overworking: First, people are promoted to their level of incompetence: namely, they are promoted until they reach a point where they can no longer do their best, at which level they stagnate and bring the effectiveness of the system down while causing the people under them to work harder to pick up any slack. Second, the results often justify the means; meaning that as long as the work gets done the employer doesn't care how long the hours are. Owners/employers expect employees to work as hard as possible because everyone from top to bottom of a company expects maximum efficiency. As we are in the part of the employment cycle where employee rights have weakened (before an inevitable rebound), the expectations of the employer often trump any expectations of fairness on the part of the employee.

The issue as a whole is actually considerably more complex because of social and economic complications combined with corporate financial power. Essentially, the people with the money have been making the rules and most first world societies have been more than happy to let it work that way. Sadly, the system is out of balance in more ways than one and your complaint, though valid, is aimed at a social system that is still both widely accepted and even more widely controlled.
 

rhodos

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Jun 7, 2010
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Sounds to me like if more ppl were like you, some of you wouldn't discourage some of you to become teachers, leading to more motivated and thus effective teachers, which in turn leads to a more educated and more skilled workforce less likely to fall for various scams and other bullshit, and more people qualified to do work in line with their personality and interests, leading to a more effective workforce overall, ultimately to a better country.
 

Smeggs

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Brawndo said:
I'm gonna more-or-less quote you something one of my college professors told our class multiple times.

"Once being a practicing lawyer, if all you want to do is make money I could show you how. I could make you rich. You'd have to sell your soul and all of your self-respect, throw away all of your free time to enjoy life or even have a shadow of human interaction outside of a professional setting because that's what it takes, but I could make you rich."

It isn't worth it. Some people just aren't like you and I. We cannot be happy just with the money, we need interaction, we need time to persue our own interests. I once worked a job where we would literally get called in at the oddest hours and more often than not by the end of my employment there they would have us working upwards to 1 in the morning. Considering this was when I was still in High School and usually on school nights, that was not working.
 

Flames66

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Brawndo said:
This culture of work and money can really get exhausting sometimes and wear you down. But I can't even mention this kind of stuff outside the anonymity of the internet, lest I get blacklisted in my profession and ridiculed by my peers.
Tell them, "I work to live not the other way around". If they sneer at you ask them what their leisure time is used for, if they say recovering, sneer right on back. I would rather have less money than work myself to death.
 

loc978

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Sep 18, 2010
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It's a byproduct of corporate culture, the old question "is what you're doing good for the company?" taken to its logical conclusion. I worked an 84-hour per week job for about 2 years just out of my teens (2000-2002)... I can sympathize.

...and yes, I espouse a change to a more Socialist model for government and business in the US. I would gladly see several industries (ones that provide services vital for continued living) be completely taken over by the government here. Because, you know who has a socialist model of living? The US military... and it's pretty damned sustainable.
 

Lunar Templar

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Sep 20, 2009
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imo

that's the last generations ideals. "work hard, put in long hours and it'll pay off in the end"
that might a been fine for them, but it doesn't work like that anymore.
sides, I'd rather be happy then rich, and work has never made me happy
 

RookwoodX

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May 15, 2011
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Don't read Atlas Shrugged. It's a worthless childish commentary from an aristocrat who was so self-absorbed she glorified and justified being rich in her mind to the point where people who were not rich were obviously just lazy terrible people wanting to mooch off rich people.

It's a shame that this book has had so much influence on our society. There was a time when greed was not a virtue.
 

tippy2k2

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Mar 15, 2008
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While it is a comedy site, John Cheese has had some of the most true to life and useful articles on Cracked ever.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-ways-we-ruined-occupy-wall-street-generation/

I'm a 25 year old with $80,000 in college debt making $14.50 a hour at a job a high schooler could get. I go to my colleges job help place and they say that I should be happy since a lot of people coming out of my school don't even have that.

The market is so trashed right now that you HAVE to work yourself to death just to be average. It should level itself out eventually but for now, I'm competing against 300 college graduates for an entry level job. If I don't offer to come in for overtime and work 110% at all time, there are 299 other people in line who will. This is at a bank that where, five years ago, high school graduates would be going up for the job.
 

Plinglebob

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Nov 11, 2008
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I've a theory that if everyone did just the hours they are contracted for and hired people to fill the man-hour gaps, you'd create 20,000 jobs overnight.

As somone who was working 12hr days at one point, I completely sympathise and now I am more then happy to tell any employer that I have that I'm only contracted for X hours a week so don't expect to see me around for more then that. At first I was getting very dirty looks for leaving bang on 4pm (7.5hrs a day between 8-4), but I'm doing all the work I have to in that time so thankfully they can't do anything. I also spent a year un-employed getting bugger all in employment benefit and that taught me that having lots of money isn't important so being able to hold onto that thought also helps.
 

RoonMian

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Mar 5, 2011
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Just ask yourself one simple question and be honest to yourself... A question that has nothing to do with socialism or capitalism or being lazy...

Are you working to live or are you living to work?
 

Spud of Doom

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Feb 24, 2011
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This is a pretty good topic, man. Working long hours is fine, but it should never be cutting too much into your personal life. After all, people do refer to it as making a living, not making a fortune.